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Author Topic: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR  (Read 92825 times)

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Offline Sebastian

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #75 on: June 01, 2009, 04:21:36 PM »
You can turn the damn red light off using the menu.
While recording, it only flashes for two seconds if you adjust the levels  ;)

I know, but that also disables the "Over LEDs" and I'd like to check them occasionally.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #76 on: June 01, 2009, 08:33:54 PM »
Square of gaff tape.

No red recording light, ever. Even when making changes.
Preserves the clip light.
All buttons still function fine.
Easily removable.

I did it 3 years ago on both R-09s and this is the first I've even thought about it since.  I've forgotten what the red light looks like.
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Offline Dede2002

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #77 on: June 02, 2009, 10:56:41 PM »
You can turn the damn red light off using the menu.
While recording, it only flashes for two seconds if you adjust the levels  ;)

I know, but that also disables the "Over LEDs" and I'd like to check them occasionally.

That's the idea: no red lights at all  ;D.
Sorry to ask, but why do you check the Peak light for? Is that the over leds you mentioned?
I mean, set your levels at a confortable level ( like peaking at -12db) and you're golden.
When the Peak light blimps, you're already clipping your recording.
Just my 00000002 cents.
Take care  ;)
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #78 on: June 02, 2009, 11:37:15 PM »
It'd be interesting to do a bench test comp:

source output > good pre amp > r09 peaking at -12
source output > good pre amp > r09 peaking at -1

You could do this two ways - levels adjusted at the pre-amp, and levels adjusted at the r09 only (though I find comps with more than two files do not get as much participation, etc)

Then tweak the gain so they both peak at 0, and let folks vote on which sounds better.

Offline Sebastian

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #79 on: June 06, 2009, 04:32:17 PM »
That's the idea: no red lights at all  ;D.
Sorry to ask, but why do you check the Peak light for? Is that the over leds you mentioned?
Quote

Yeah, the over LEDs.

Quote
I mean, set your levels at a confortable level ( like peaking at -12db) and you're golden.
When the Peak light blimps, you're already clipping your recording.

I know and I agree. But I find those peak lights to be especially useful when recording with a new recorder. For example, when I first got my R09HR, I had no idea on how to set the levels to a "comfortable" level. I just didn't know where to start. I set them somewhere and, during loud parts of the concert, looked into my bag to check for the over LEDs. They were very helpful because I could see almost instantaneously whether I was clipping or not.

Also, I recently recorded a Dylan show (relatively quiet) and another rock show in a small club (relatively loud) a few days later. I still had the levels set for Dylan when I went to the second show and forgot to lower them before the band started. I was able to see that problem as soon as I hit the record button because of the LEDs. I don't know if it's just me, but I certainly find the LEDs to be better (and faster) readable than the main display.

I think I got that LED checking habit from stealthing with the SBM-1 back in the good old DAT days ;)

Offline carpa

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #80 on: June 08, 2009, 01:25:05 PM »
I know the "unity gain"matter of the Edirol R09HR has been debated enough, but I'm not sure if I totally understanded  ( musicians.....!).
I ask you some questions in order to resume the matter.

1) Assuming that  the unity gain in the line input stays around 40, it means that below this there is a digital attenuation. This means that going line-in with an external preamp should be done without moving from this 40 level. Is this right?

2) If keeping the unity level causes an overload even if the preamp is set at a low gain this means we have an output which is too high. I guess this could occour because we are using very sensitive mics.
There shoud be two possibilities; adding an attenuator between the preamp and the deck or lowering the input level below 40, with the distortion consequences somebody complains about. Right again?


3) If we go directly line in with a battery box and so WITHOUT an external preamp and we raise the input level over 40 (which seems to me could be a third solution), are we using the same preamp circuit we have in the mic mode? If it is true it means that we have a) high mic input;  b) low mic input ;  c) line in which acts either as an even lower mic input if set over 40, or like a true line input if set at unity gain. Right or wrong?

thank you for your answers, they will be precious
c







Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #81 on: June 08, 2009, 03:52:25 PM »
1) Assuming that  the unity gain in the line input stays around 40, it means that below this there is a digital attenuation.
Incorrect. The gain or attenuation of the signal is done in the analog preamp stage, before the analog to digital converter.

Quote
This means that going line-in with an external preamp should be done without moving from this 40 level. Is this right?
If 40 on the R09HR is the unity setting then that's a reasonable goal.  You probably won't notice any noise or distortion in a fairly wide range around that setting though.  The effective limits of that range seem open to debate, but if you need to further attenuate or amplify the signal somewhat from your initial setting of 40, that shouldn't worry you too much.

Quote
2) If keeping the unity level causes an overload even if the preamp is set at a low gain this means we have an output which is too high. I guess this could occour because we are using very sensitive mics.
Or the preamp may have a high output level. That's common with professional gear. I have to set my Grace V3 preamp gain very low when feeding my old R-09.  I like to keep the R-09 input level at around 13 or so when using an external preamp (though as mentioned above, a bit higher or lower is no big deal) and that means I usually need to set the V3's gain quite low so that it's meters barely register.  That's because as a piece of professional grade gear, the V3 is designed to output a higher level signal than the consumer grade R-09 was designed to receive, but I can turn the knobs and adjust for that, it still sounds good and there is no noise problem so I don't worry about it.

Quote
There shoud be two possibilities; adding an attenuator between the preamp and the deck or lowering the input level below 40, with the distortion consequences somebody complains about. Right again?
Right. But realize that lowering the input setting on the recorder below 40 achieves the same thing as using an external attenuator.. until you reach the limit where the input overloads and distorts.  If you need even more attenuation because you can't reduce the input level on the recorder any further without risking distortion, then you'll either need to reduce the gain on the external preamp farther (which you've presumably already done), engage the output pad on the mic if there is one, or use some kind of external signal attenuator between the preamp and the recorder or between the mic and the preamp.

Quote
3) If we go directly line in with a battery box and so WITHOUT an external preamp and we raise the input level over 40 (which seems to me could be a third solution), are we using the same preamp circuit we have in the mic mode? If it is true it means that we have a) high mic input;  b) low mic input ;  c) line in which acts either as an even lower mic input if set over 40, or like a true line input if set at unity gain. Right or wrong?
In every input configuration, the signal will go through the same analog preamp stage of the recorder.  The main thing that changes is the amount of gain applied (the other thing that changes is the availability of plug-in power when using the mic inputs).  The main reason for using an external preamp with this recorder other than as a way to provide phantom power for mics that require it, is to provide a greater range of signal amplification or reduction without as much noise creeping in at high R-09HR gain settings or possible distortion at very low R-09HR gain settings then is available using the built in analog preamp stage of the R-09HR alone.  Some people here select preamps for their 'sound' and 'tonal coloration' but that's a whole different discussion.

In any case you can reduce the level (attenuate), increase the level (add gain) or keep the level the same (the mysterious unity input setting) using the level control on the recorder for any of the various input configurations and those changes all take place in the analog preamp stage.  If you don't notice any objectionable noise in your recordings when using the line-input and a higher input level setting as compared to using the mic input and a lower input level setting, then you don't need an external preamp at all.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2009, 04:17:46 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline carpa

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #82 on: June 08, 2009, 04:00:17 PM »
Thank you very very much. Very clear and useful!!!
c

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #83 on: June 09, 2009, 02:46:06 PM »
Wasn't sure whether to post this question here or in Remote Power....  here we go:

A while ago I bought a Lenmar PPU2100B external battery.  I am wondering if you folks know A) whether it will work with the R-09HR, B) how long it will work for the R-09HR, and C) If / where I can find a cable to take the power from the Lenmar product to R-09hr (Lenmar spits out power via USB).

Thanks in advance!
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Offline robotaper

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #84 on: June 10, 2009, 04:31:55 PM »
I wanted to chime in here.  I've been the proud owner of an R-09HR since December.  I've taped a number of shows since then, both stealth and open (I run with CS DPA 4061's).  I've been very happy with both the unit and the mics.  Prior to purchasing the Edirol I borrowed an IRiver for taping, and I have to say I am very impressed with the ease of use of 09HR.  Much of my pre-purchase research was conducted reading this forum (many thanks to all  ;)).

In regards to the red-record lights, which can be a burden when running stealth, is this something that could be addressed in a firm-ware update possibly?  It seems you build in the option to run w/o the light, but still have the option to use the peak meter.

All in all, I am very happy my purchase, and the tapes I've pulled this spring and of late.

 ;D ;D ;D

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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #85 on: June 10, 2009, 06:50:13 PM »
...is this something that could be addressed in a firm-ware update possibly?

It could, but it probably won't.

[cough] square of gaff tape [cough]
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline wppcproductions

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #86 on: June 10, 2009, 08:53:03 PM »
Hi All.Im  have not been around for awhile.I decided its time to upgrade my gear from a Sony MD to  a flash  recorder rig.I have 2 gigs comming up next week and i need some help  a advice  to make awesome captures from you pros on here.I will be recording with a stock R-09HR with internal mics. with a 4gb 
card with the seting ogf 24bit at 44 for now just to get the feel of it.
what do I need to know is what kind of batteries to get to keep the edirol rolling for long time,I did some tests in the last couple of days with 2500mAh ni-mh rechargables  with the results of 3 hour recordings.whats the best batteries to use in this recorder.will those high power expensive alkaline could do better.
ok  the gigs are inside of arenas ,the next question is about the input  with the internal mic is used, from 0 to 80 where should i keep it,the mic gain should be on low of high.ok the limiter/agc switch should be on  or off. now the low cut switch should be on or off.
Any one please help if you can.thank you Skip Raccio.

Offline jobseek2001

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #87 on: June 11, 2009, 01:22:11 AM »
Did you ever try in front of a loud stereo?  ???   ::)
You'll get a feel for it there.

Offline George2

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #88 on: June 11, 2009, 11:38:26 AM »
I actually like the red light.... can look and verify it's recording.
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Offline su6oxone

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Re: Edirol R-09HR - Part FOUR
« Reply #89 on: June 11, 2009, 11:58:10 PM »
I actually like the red light.... can look and verify it's recording.

Yeah, it's only really an issue when trying to tape under the radar, so to speak.  8)

 

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