Gear / Technical Help > Microphones & Setup

Wide cardioid/subcardioid spacing and angle

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DuctTaper42:
Howdy folks,
TL;DR I was wanting to inquire the hive mind on techniques y'all use for wide cardioids.

I have been using my new Line Audio Omni1s for the past couple months and am loving them, even when I used them inside an arena for Billy Strings last week @AB 2' I am happy with the results (will be posting in kickdown central soon). Understandably sounds a bit reverberant but wasn't nearly as muddy as I expected. So far I've had them set up ranging from 12" spaced and angled out maybe 30deg at a small, intimate outdoor show, to 3' AB at a festival and have been happy with all of the results so far, though admittedly I don't have the most discerning ear for stereo imaging. (Yet?)

Even though I've just recently gotten them I am already brewing future purchases (gotta have a couple rigs in case of a multi-stage festival riiiiiight??  :yack: ) and the Line Audio CM4s are one of the mics in consideration. While so far it hasn't bit me too bad I'm thinking the bit of rear rejection would be helpful for less than ideal circumstances. I don't mind a bit of room noise and think I'd rather have some room noise if it meant I maintain the natural reproduction of being there.

Short story long... How do y'all typically set up wide cards? AB? Improved PAS? Radio station standards designed for cards? Combination of all of the above? If it varies based on type of venue I'd be curious to know.

Thanks

aaronji:
I usually space my DPA4015 wide cards at about 30 - 35 cm and 75 - 90 degrees, depending on distance/SRA (which are related). Try this tool https://sengpielaudio.com/HejiaE.htm to see where the wide cards reproduce the SRA of cards or other patterns.

C.Clark:
What I normally do is space minimum 1 foot and up to 4 feet.  I find myself running PAS sometimes and then other times doing an angle between 60 and 90 degrees.  Kind of depends on how far from the stacks and if the PA has a lot of bass or not.  The more bass, the less angle I use.  I also find that the closer I get to the PA, in smaller venues, the more likely I am to run PAS.  Hope that helps!

morst:

I have not gotten very creative. Ran wide cards in the house once as a test but didn't hear an improvement over the cardioids.
https://archive.org/details/Steepwater2016-10-05.B-KM143


I tried them on stage, downstage lip, with mics near each other, and it was OK but I tried again the next night with them spread wider and liked it a lot more in terms of getting two different signals to work with when I split them apart.


So now I usually run Neumann KM143 wide cards on stage, split wider than 6' if possible, aimed at snare drum for a regular rock band setup with center drummer.


Best if mixed with SBD feed, and if I have that I'll go low, under the wedges so my mics dont pick up much if any stage vocals. Leave that for the SBD mix.
Here's one without the SBD feed, more jazz than rock but plenty loud.
https://archive.org/details/Nolatet2018-06-06.KM143-FLAC2448/Nolatet2018-06-06t14.flac


Another result without a board feed is this mix of cards in the house plus wides on stage
https://archive.org/details/MonksOfDoom2018-05-20/MoD2018-05-20t09.flac


Gotta admit I like to go with a setup I'm confident in... Experimentation is important, but on the day of the show I just wanna nail it.

Gutbucket:
Use a somewhat wider spacing than what you like when using cardioids, or use the same spacing and a wider angle between mics.  The open pattern makes the angle between mics somewhat less critical than when using tighter more directional patterns.  Off-axis response will tend to sound more natural than with a tighter pattern so there is more freedom in angling the pair somewhat wider than you otherwise might.

You might think of them sort of as directional-omnis.

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