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Author Topic: How do I get rid of too much bass?  (Read 14026 times)

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Offline Dede2002

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How do I get rid of too much bass?
« on: March 16, 2007, 05:57:28 PM »
 ??? ??? ???
Hi,

I'm having a lot of hard work trying to cut/filter bass in my recordings. I'm using Audacity or Sound Studio. The thing is: if I choose the equalization option, I feel the bass roll-off will impact the other frequencies, producing a thin, hollow final product. In the other hand, I can't feel or hear ANY diferences if I use High Pass filter with Audacity or Soundos. By the way, I don't think those tools work at all. Audacity offer a cutoff starting at like 300 hz, which is way too much. Any tips. Thanks in advance.
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
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Offline hummat

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2007, 08:24:00 PM »
Which Filter are you using in Sound Studio, Filter>High Pass Filter, or Audio Units>AU:Hipass ?
I've used the Audio Units >AU:HiPass in Sound Studio with very good results. 

Offline Evil Taper

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2007, 09:06:44 PM »
a high pass should decrease your low end significantly, otherwise you can just EQ is out by decreasing the low end.
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Offline Dede2002

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2007, 09:45:45 PM »
Which Filter are you using in Sound Studio, Filter>High Pass Filter, or Audio Units>AU:Hipass ?
I've used the Audio Units >AU:HiPass in Sound Studio with very good results. 

I'm trying to use the Filter>High Pass Filter. It just doesn't take any  bass at all. Anyway, thanks for the tip. I'll give it a try.
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
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Offline Dede2002

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2007, 09:55:45 PM »
a high pass should decrease your low end significantly, otherwise you can just EQ is out by decreasing the low end.

Yes, it should do exactly that. I don't know what's going on. Maybe the filtered files are being saved sowewhere in my Mac, because it does not appear in the Desktop.
Problem with EQ: I feel that EQing the low bass leaves the other frequencies with this hollow, metalic, irritating sound. Also, I found those filters to be not exactly user friendly ( at least for a novice user). I just don't want to mess with 2 or 3 controls to cut bass ( Frequency, number of samples etc).
Anyway, thanks a lot. It's just that I have this wonderfull sounding concert and I can't listen to it anywhere but through my Audio Technica Studiophones. In this case, it sounds terrific, almost scary. Golinf to speakers, total disaster.

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Offline tapeheadtoo

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2007, 02:22:12 PM »
I've been following this thread with interest, as I also use Sound Studio on a Mac, and am forever trying to decrease the bass in my recordings.  I was wondering if someone could be kind enough to explain to me exactly what the parameters in Filter>High Pass Filter and Filter>Audio Units>Apple: AUHipass mean.  In High Pass Filter, which I have been using for a while, you can set the frequency and the steepness.  I think I understand 'frequency' (e.g. if I set the cutoff frequency at 500hz I am going to be filtering out more bass than if I set it at 200hz); however I'm not sure what 'steepness' refers to.  Also, after just reading about AU Hipass above, I am curious as to what the parameter 'resonance' (measured in dB) means.
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Offline Dede2002

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2007, 07:24:59 PM »
I've been following this thread with interest, as I also use Sound Studio on a Mac, and am forever trying to decrease the bass in my recordings.  I was wondering if someone could be kind enough to explain to me exactly what the parameters in Filter>High Pass Filter and Filter>Audio Units>Apple: AUHipass mean.  In High Pass Filter, which I have been using for a while, you can set the frequency and the steepness.  I think I understand 'frequency' (e.g. if I set the cutoff frequency at 500hz I am going to be filtering out more bass than if I set it at 200hz); however I'm not sure what 'steepness' refers to.  Also, after just reading about AU Hipass above, I am curious as to what the parameter 'resonance' (measured in dB) means.

Thanks for adding your comments Tapeheadtoo. There must be an easy way to get rid of all that extra bass. The problem is that every time I try to do so, the software will likely present another problem for me to solve (steepness etc). Please, friends, I really need some advice here!
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline boyacrobat

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2007, 10:58:05 PM »
could try Harbal v.2  -  Intuit Q feature -IntuitQ

quote-manual-harbal v.2 - intuit q

To aid in the design of harbalisation filters we introduce the IntuitQ process. This is an automated process specifically designed to remove spectrum anomalies from a given track. IntuitQ does not use a secondary reference to decide how to filter your track. In essence the frame of reference is the track itself. It looks at the current spectrum and decides upon a filter that will smooth it out whilst still preserving the peaks and dips that define the character and quality of the track.

The process is divided into two parts : IntuitQ average and IntuitQ Peak . IntuitQ average attempts to smooth the average spectrum of the track with a view to reducing masking. IntuitQ peak attempts to control dominant peaks in the peak spectrum of the track with a view to reducing the harshness of the track. Together they form the combined IntuitQ process but can also be applied individually.

To make use of IntuitQ simply click on the IntuitQ toolbar button. This will apply the IntuitQ average process followed by the IntuitQ peak process. You can apply IntuitQ at any stage in the process of designing a harbalisation filter or you can use it exclusively as a means of harbalising for dummies. In general, we recommend using IntuitQ as a starting point for harbalising a track with manual editing to follow if required. If the track is already close to where it should be has far as harmonic balancing is concerned, you may well find that no further adjustment is required, though the option is there if you need it. The algorithm is sufficiently robust to work well on the individual tracks of a complete mix as well.

The degree to which a single application of IntuitQ can change the spectrum shape is limited. As such, if your track is woefully out of balance then a repeated application of IntuitQ may come up with a harbalisation that is superior to just one application. Although repeated application is possible, in cases where it is required it is usually an indicator of a poor mix. As such, better results are possible if the track is remixed to obtain a spectrum shape closer to that desired. In the limit, repeated application of IntuitQ will create a spectrum shape that is "nominally" a straight line spectrum and is not likely to be the best shape possible.

IntuitQ acts only on a specific range of the spectrum. The range of frequencies that IntuitQ touches is dependant upon the spectrum shape. More specifically, it depends upon the dominant range of the spectrum. IntuitQ will not touch of the dominant range...........

-this should detect & cut accordingly & automated.. or manually home in -----ex alt program

g.


Offline Brennan

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2007, 12:17:53 AM »
Not sure if this will be of much help to anybody, but in Audition you can look at the 'spectral' view of a file (instead of the standard waveform) and literally just select frequencies by dragging a box. Then delete.

I've found that it works well for some things, and not so much for others.. :)
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Offline Evil Taper

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2007, 04:01:38 AM »
i really don't understand what the confusion is about here.  using a high pass filter in post will decrease bass, it lets highs pass, get it?  you could use a parametric or shelf eq really easily as well.  as for what frequencies to deal with, rarely do albums have anything below 50Hz in their range.  if you remove the low frequencies the rest of the sound should gain presence.  if you were someone listening to the recording who hadn't heard the original master you'd probably like it's sound better.
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Offline guysonic

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #10 on: March 19, 2007, 07:17:37 AM »
Using CEP and likely same in Audition, I like Scientific Filters choosing 1 Pole High pass (6 dB/Octave) Butterworth as it leaves everything above the pole frequency untouched and has smoothest natural bass reduction sound to my ears.   Has smooth phase that leaves percussion bass transient (attack sounds) in very good shape.

Good working frequency range of -3dB pole for music starts as low as 40 cycles and extends as high as 250 cycles in my experience.   I find 85 - 150 cycles is right-on most of the time for pop/rock using flat to 3 - to- 24,000 cycles baffled omni mic array.

Using a different omni-to-directional type mic in whatever array configuration should not change preferring the Butterworth HP filter, only maybe a downward shift of most useful -3 dB pole frequencies for pop/rock in the 40 -110 cycle range.
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Offline rustoleum

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2007, 12:35:45 PM »
I would adjust the EQ on my stereo.  Once it's gone from the recording, it ain't coming back.

Offline Dede2002

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2007, 06:36:11 PM »
Thanks for the tips. It's not that easy though.
Audacity has a bass cutoff that starts on 100Hz and then jumps to 330Hz, too much I guess.At least in my case, the 100HZ doesn't cause any audible improvement. The same with Sound Studio.
Sometimes a file will sound great with heaphones ( after the editing/mastering) and 100% crap with speakers. Very frustrating.Anyway, thanks.
Mics..........................SP-CMC-8, HLSC-1 and HLSO-MICRO
BB and Preamps........MM Micro bb / MM Custom Elite bb / Church 9100
                              
Recorders...................Tascam DR-100MKIII, Marantz PMD 620 MKII, Edirol R-09

Offline guysonic

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2007, 06:45:30 PM »
Thanks for the tips. It's not that easy though.
Audacity has a bass cutoff that starts on 100Hz and then jumps to 330Hz, too much I guess.At least in my case, the 100HZ doesn't cause any audible improvement. The same with Sound Studio.
Sometimes a file will sound great with heaphones ( after the editing/mastering) and 100% crap with speakers. Very frustrating.Anyway, thanks.

Headphones require just tens of milliwatts power for loud bass reproduction, but speakers demand hundreds of watts (think several 1000 watt subs) to reproduce live pop/rock recorded venue bass at listening levels where mids/highs also sound full.  So reducing the bass is only solution where speaker power is limited and neighbor relations are easily stressed.
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Offline ethan

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Re: How do I get rid of too much bass?
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2007, 06:56:26 PM »


I'm curious what your rig is, do you have shock mounts, what your playback system is, what kind of rooms you've been taping in and what genre of music.

My approach to low end has always to try to do as much as I can before it goes on tape. This includes running a V2 pre amp that has 2 HPF settings and can be tweaked even further with jumper cables. I have a set of hypers and cards which I use in different rooms and situations. Other things I do is to not try to get too close to a wall in a small room. I avoid X/Y stereo configs. etc..

The reason I ask about playback system is the perception of too much low end can come from the playback device especially headphones and headphone preamps.

Finally an impedance mismatch between your gain stage and recorder (if you don't run a preamp) could cause low end saturation.

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