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Gear / Technical Help => Post-Processing, Computer / Streaming / Internet Devices & Related Activity => Topic started by: krsb on February 13, 2009, 06:18:22 AM
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Hello,
Apologies if this question has been already covered many times, but searching didn't quite find me the answers I was looking for.
I just bought a Macbook and I was wondering if there was a solution to bring the signal from my V3 (so coax or optical) and my UA-5 (so optical) into the Mac to make a nice (but not compact) four channel rig.
I have seen the references to the RME Multiface, nice, but not sure I need all those inputs!
Or should maybe I should just buy an R-44!
Many thanks for advice.
Greetings to all.
cb
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The V3 > digi in will look like a soundcard input to the computer.
The UA-5 > USB will look like a different soundcard input to the computer.
Similarly on a windows or linux laptop I have recorded from the UA-5 or the cheap onboard sound card. I have used Audacity and chose either sound card A, or B. I've never tried to record from 2 different soundcards at the same time. I suspect it's doable, but you need the right software.
run_run_run is a Mac guy and he may have some ideas on that software components.
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for USB UA-5, get this
http://www.edirol.net/products/en/UA-5
under downloads.
fix'd
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for USB UA-5, get this
http://www.edirol.net/products/en/UA-5N
under downloads.
404. Just like the poster.
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for USB UA-5, get this
http://www.edirol.net/products/en/UA-5
under downloads.
404. Just like the poster.
lol I added an N
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This may be obvious, but you have 2 different clocks.
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Umm, not obvious (to me anyways!) but it was a nagging thought in the back of my head saying: this might not be as simple an idea as I original thought. Any easy solutions? or do I have to start thinking up new ways of justifying both my laptop and future four track recorder purchase?
Many thank for in advance for patience and advice.
cb
This may be obvious, but you have 2 different clocks.
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I think your going to have Audacity for one and another program for the other (in real time recording). They won't line up latter, without stretching/shrinking.
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I think the clock issue is the least of your problem here but I'll explain it.
When you record something with an A/D converter there is a clock at (for instance) 44,100 beats per minute. Every clock beat you write 16 bits of information to the hard drive. The problem is that no two clocks are exactly the same (one clock runs faster than the other) and you have clock drift. I used to record to an H120 and an R09, pull up the 2 files on the the computer, and one is a tiny bit slower than the other and you have to stretch one or the other, which is a pain in the butt. Seth's point was that if you recorded with 2 applications (Audacity to record the V3 input, and Soundforge to record the UA-5 input) then you could theoretically end up with the same problem as 2 recorders. If they both standardized on the computers clock it wouldn't be a problem. But who wants to run 2 applications? What you want is one program that will look at 4 channels on the screen.
Most standard soundcards have 2 inputs. Others have 4 or 8 or 16 channels... all in one hardware box which connects to your computer via USB or Firewire. Most software can handle that just fine because it's talking to one hardware device. You tell the software which input tracks to record, and it works.
But that's not what you have. What you have is "a bunch of little soundcards instead of one big". It's like stuffing different soundblaster cards into the back of a PC's PCI slots, and trying to tell it which one to use. To software that is a HUGE difference. You have to find software that is happy with multiple soundcards. Such software exists but I'm not sure which ones.
One option may be to buy a device... I can't remember that name... but there were some devices which you plug into a computer's PCMCIA card and there was this octopus of cables for which you could plug in. Then you run V3 digi > 1 leg of octopus, and UA-5 digi > another leg of octopus and to your computer it looked like "one big soundcard", and then you can use Audacity. I haven't seen of of these things in a while. They were very expensive new, but they show up cheap in the yardsale on occasion.
You still don't have an answer, but maybe you understand the challenges and what to look for.
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Digigram makes various soundcard/input devices that have software apps for MAC, PC and Linux. Take a look at some of their products @ http://www.digigram.com/products/by_category.php?o=getcat&pcat_key=PCSCD&t=Sound+Cards&fw=
Not sure if this would work for you but there is a VX440 currently in the yard was one in the yard sale recently http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,116777.0.html
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Not sure if this would work for you but there is a VX440 currently in the yard was one in the yard sale recently http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,116777.0.html
no PCMCIA on the macbooks
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Not sure if this would work for you but there is a VX440 currently in the yard was one in the yard sale recently http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,116777.0.html
no PCMCIA on the macbooks
I wasn't sure but didn't think there was. Thanks for the confirmation. Would something else on the products page work on a MacBook?
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Seth's point was that if you recorded with 2 applications (Audacity to record the V3 input, and Soundforge to record the UA-5 input) then you could theoretically end up with the same problem as 2 recorders.
Using 2 different applications shouldn't make a difference with respect to clock issues. The clock is part of the ADC. In this case, the clocks reside in the V3 and the R09. The clocks still would not match, even using a single software app to record both inputs -- whether through a single soundcard or through multiple soundcards.
Depending on the soundcard, you might be able to tell the soundcard to clock both inputs, in which case the soundcard would basically resample both inputs. That way, both sources would share the same clock, and you wouldn't have any drift issues. Worst case, if you find a way to record both sources using different clocks, you can re-align them manually in post, or resample one or both sources in post so the clocks match.
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Using 2 different applications shouldn't make a difference with respect to clock issues. The clock is part of the ADC. In this case, the clocks reside in the V3 and the R09. The clocks still would not match, even using a single software app to record both inputs -- whether through a single soundcard or through multiple soundcards.
You are right... I'm skipping a step in my explanation, and it added to confusion. A poor college student who doesn't want to spend any money could run two applications and point them to different input devices. The reason you use 2 different programs is because you can't use 2 instances of Audacity... the software won't let you, and even if it did, pointing them to different input devices probably won't work well. Regardless of the clock issues, I think trying to run 2 different software packages is messy and I suspect that the odds of reliably coming home with good tape every night are slim.
There are a variety of solutions you can buy to do this. There may be free software which will do this for free, I don't know anything about Mac. I've deliberately avoided making statements like "go buy box xxxxx and software yyyy", especially when I'm recommending stuff that I have never used myself. I would like the original poster to understand the issues and make his own decision. How many threads have we seen with "I want to upgrade my mics" and he gets back answers where everyone advises him to buy what they use? like it's some sort of popularity contest. I didn't want to do that.
That said, I'll propose a specific example... Buy an Edirol FA-66. It would replace your existing UA-5. You run the V3 digital input into the back of the FA-66, your other sources analog into the FA-66 and then the FA-66 Firewire into the computer. Most software (Audacity?) will be happy with this and let you record multiple tracks. This FA-66 is just one model which will do this, and there are dozens of others made by Edirol, Motu, MAudio/Protools and a few other companies. The only reason I mention the FA-66 is that it's sound quality is probably similar to the UA-5, and at $200-$300 it's cheaper than most of the others. I've read multiple places that when you get above 2 channels, Firewire is the way to go instead of USB. I've never actually seen or used one of these devices an can't tell you if they work very well, but that's what they are built to do.
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Many thanks to all for the input and ideas.
I think I will most likely re-think this plan...
I appreciate the help.
cb
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It seems like there is a need in the market for some type of multiple SPDIF to firewire device. That way people with two or more converters could get the audio recorded into a mac or windows laptop via firewire.
The MOTU Traveler might be able to do this. If the AES and SPDIF inputs are both independent and can be active at the same time.
I am thinking more in terms of a utility box with two SPDIF's (or more), firewire, and a driver for OSX and windows that captures the audio.
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Agreed.
In the end I am trying to make a setup with a Macbook, Motu Ultralite (found recently in ys) a Hosa OLd 276A (in ys too!) and then my Busman Mod UA-5 and my V3 (maybe using the analog out and then running the optical out into my D50) and then if I can get a board signal, running that into the Ultralite
Of course, I'll need to find me a sonic-sherpa to carry all this.... :D
cb
(http://www.theglas.org/fromcb/sherpa.gif)
It seems like there is a need in the market for some type of multiple SPDIF to firewire device. That way people with two or more converters could get the audio recorded into a mac or windows laptop via firewire.
The MOTU Traveler might be able to do this. If the AES and SPDIF inputs are both independent and can be active at the same time.
I am thinking more in terms of a utility box with two SPDIF's (or more), firewire, and a driver for OSX and windows that captures the audio.
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The R-44 is awful sweet! Much better than hauling a laptop around with all the outboard gear. Find a low price then call Fullcompass and see if they will beat it. I got mine for $738.