Topic: Wave 64 Files?

[terrapinj]

Anyone very familiar with w64 files?

I read that you can bypass SoundForge's 2GB limitation by saving the file to w64 instead of wav. I am curious if there are any negative implications of doing so. I would like to save a 24bit edited copy of a set that was split at the 2GB mark so that I can use the same cue sheet for the 16bit file.

Any reason why I shouldn't save to w64 for the large file? CDwave can handle the file fine and saves the split tracks as normal wav without any apparent issues.

thanks

[OFOTD]

just saving a spot to follow this conversation.

+T for asking the question Mikey

[MattD]

Anyone very familiar with w64 files?

I read that you can bypass SoundForge's 2GB limitation by saving the file to w64 instead of wav. I am curious if there are any negative implications of doing so. I would like to save a 24bit edited copy of a set that was split at the 2GB mark so that I can use the same cue sheet for the 16bit file.

Any reason why I shouldn't save to w64 for the large file? CDwave can handle the file fine and saves the split tracks as normal wav without any apparent issues.

thanks

In OSX, Spark uses w64 files. I usually dump a long set of files > 2GB into a single w64, split it up, then convert back to wav to end up as FLAC. If there are no issues with your workflow, there is nothing "bad" about a w64 file. It's a lossless format. You just need to make sure your programs can handle it - which it sounds like they can.

[wbrisette]

In OSX, Spark uses w64 files. I usually dump a long set of files > 2GB into a single w64, split it up, then convert back to wav to end up as FLAC. If there are no issues with your workflow, there is nothing "bad" about a w64 file. It's a lossless format. You just need to make sure your programs can handle it - which it sounds like they can.

Actually, I beg to differ. The W64 format has not been adopted as a standard format yet. Since this is the case, few applications can deal with them. While on the surface this may not seem like a bad thing, it could be if you need to use it somewhere else, or like in Spark's case the EOF of the product was a few years back.

We're always talking about longivity of things, and when you save something in a non-standard or widely adopted format you're asking for trouble in my opinion.

I also save files out in a non-stardard format (WaveFile's 32-bit format), but I also have the original BWav files and Digital Performer files should I need to go back to recreate something.

You could argue that once the FLAC files are created you're safe, and in some respects you are, but if you accidentally mis-tracked a CD, then it's harder to fix things because you have join and resplit files.

I would stay away from using the W64 format as a archival format. But that's just me.

Wayne

[OFOTD]

I would stay away from using the W64 format as a archival format. But that's just me.

Wayne

What about if you just used the format to record and edit.  You could always then convert to the standard WAV format before archiving, right   If I could edit and process one set of files over the 2gb limit (bwf) instead of having to break them up in 30 minutes chunks I would be a happy camper.

[terrapinj]

In OSX, Spark uses w64 files. I usually dump a long set of files > 2GB into a single w64, split it up, then convert back to wav to end up as FLAC. If there are no issues with your workflow, there is nothing "bad" about a w64 file. It's a lossless format. You just need to make sure your programs can handle it - which it sounds like they can.

Actually, I beg to differ. The W64 format has not been adopted as a standard format yet. Since this is the case, few applications can deal with them. While on the surface this may not seem like a bad thing, it could be if you need to use it somewhere else, or like in Spark's case the EOF of the product was a few years back.

We're always talking about longivity of things, and when you save something in a non-standard or widely adopted format you're asking for trouble in my opinion.

I also save files out in a non-stardard format (WaveFile's 32-bit format), but I also have the original BWav files and Digital Performer files should I need to go back to recreate something.

You could argue that once the FLAC files are created you're safe, and in some respects you are, but if you accidentally mis-tracked a CD, then it's harder to fix things because you have join and resplit files.

I would stay away from using the W64 format as a archival format. But that's just me.

Wayne

its not really an archival format for me - i keep the raw master wav files untouched

this would mainly be as part of the work flow to help make it easier to track the 24bit files - the only program i would need to run the w64 is CDWave which seems to handle the files fine. once the files have been tracked and FLACd tracked copies are archived i would be deleting the w64 file

my main concern is that it is a lossless transition from wav > w64 > wav

[Brian Skalinder]

Offtopic, and...I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but Samplitude SE ($50) makes working with multiple 24-bit < 2GB files very, very easy.  No need to join, no need to track 24-bit and 16-bit separately - just one virtual project for all editing, resampling/dithering, tracking, fading, and final output formats etc.

[terrapinj]

Offtopic, and...I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but Samplitude SE ($50) makes working with multiple 24-bit < 2GB files very, very easy.  No need to join, no need to track 24-bit and 16-bit separately - just one virtual project for all editing, resampling/dithering, tracking, fading, and final output formats etc.

ive been thinking about checking samplitude out, but am kinda hesitant to relearn new software - does it work with 24bit files as they are or does it do the 32bit float? is it pretty intuitive to learn?

[Brian Skalinder]

ive been thinking about checking samplitude out, but am kinda hesitant to relearn new software - does it work with 24bit files as they are or does it do the 32bit float? is it pretty intuitive to learn?

SSE handles 16-bit, 24-bit, and 32bfp files just fine and imports each in their native format.  It internally processes at 32bfp, so you'll want to dither before exporting to the final desired format.  It includes generally the same feature sets I've used previously in CEP/Audition, WaveLab, and Audacity:  dynamics (compression, limiting, etc.) amplitude (gain, normalization, fade in/out/cross, volume envelope), parametric EQ, etc., and of course supports a slew of VST or DirectX plug-ins.  It's really just a question of getting accustomed to navigating within SSE to find all the same features.

I'd say the biggest shift, and one of the biggest benefits, was learning to work in a non-destrutcive, object oriented model - called a Virtual Project in SSE.  And I found it a pretty easy adjustment.  One may slice & dice a WAV file (non-destructively) into multiple objects, and apply the same or different edits to those objects.  When working with multiple ~2GB files, one simply imports each file into SSE (as separate objects, hence avoiding the whole > 2GB file issue), in sequence (making sure to turn off auto-crossfade), apply any edits one wishes to any / all objects (one may copy edits from one object to another, or make edits to multiple objects simultaneously), define track markers, and bounce (export) the tracks when done (SSE seamlessly joins the two objects when exporting).  In the process of bouncing tracks, SSE will apply all the edits defined for each / all objects in the project, and resample / dither as the user defines when initiating bouncing.  To export 16- and 24-bit tracks, simply bounce tracks twice, each time selecting the desired sample rate and bit-depth.

Anyway, I like it far and away better than the other tools I've used so far (can you tell?). 

[terrapinj]

well i finally sacked up and bought v8 se - i had played with v9 demo some months back and figured $50 would be worth it.

so far its not too difficult to get the basic functions going - one question - how do you work on the each stereo channel separately?

[Brian Skalinder]

how do you work on the each stereo channel separately?

Main menu:  File | Convert Audio | Stereo-Wave -> 2 Mono

[Brian Skalinder]

Just a quick tip since I ran across SSE set to my old settings after a system restore.  For tracking 16- and 24-bit in the same VIP, simply set the following:

View | Units of Measurement | CD MSF (ensures track markers fall on sector boundaries)
View | Snap Active (enabled)
View | Snap To | Objects (makes it easier to align the track markers with the start/end of objects)

The first is the only critical setting.  The other two are helpful when dividing up a WAV into multiple objects, like I'm doing for an a cappella recording in which I'm splitting the music into discrete objects and deleting the non-music objects.  The latter two make it easier to place track markers at the start/end of each object, something one normally wouldn't have to worry about when tracking a continuous recording.

As I come across or people ask about them, I'm going to add tips to a dedicated SSE thread.