Taperssection.com

Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: bbernardini on January 08, 2008, 10:22:39 AM

Title: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: bbernardini on January 08, 2008, 10:22:39 AM
I was lucky enough to receive an Edirol R-09 as a gift over the holidays. However, I can't afford external mics at the moment. To avoid security hassles while stealthing, I'd like to be able to set levels elsewhere (say, the bathroom), start recording, and let it run without having to check and/or adjust levels. I'm figuring on low mic gain, low cut on, and AGC off. I've perused the boards, and done some experimenting recording my band at wedding gigs. It seems like an input level of 12 or 13 might do the trick, but I thought I'd ask the experts.

The show in question is The Cure at the Wachovia Spectrum in Philadelphia, if that helps. There's also a possibility of recording a Saw Doctors show at the Nokia Theater in NYC before that.

Thanks for any and all advice!
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: deadhoarse on January 08, 2008, 10:37:38 AM
Where do you plan on keeping the recorder during the show?  If you're so concerned about getting caught that you don't want to check levels during the show, chances are you will be keeping the recorder in a spot that won't be optimal for recording.

Anyway, it's hard to say.  It depends where you are located in the arena/how loud it is.  I'll be taping that show as well.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: Belexes on January 08, 2008, 11:22:17 AM
I taped a show with the internals, just for fun, at an "America" show last year for a festival they played.  I have external mics, but wanted to use the internal mics just to experiment.

Setting the levels was a bitch, to say the least.  I put the unit in a shirt pocket with something at the bottom of the pocket to raise the R-09 up so the mics would be slightly visable. I had the mics faced towards the stage, but of course when you do that, the display is not facing you.  I had to bend my neck forward and look down at an angle to see what levels I was getting and then adjust with the buttons on the unit. 

I'd try and set the levels during an opening act if there is one.  Start low and work your way up.  You can always boost in post, but not much can be done with distortion.

If you are on a budget, check out the Church mics in the retail section of this board. It'll save you a lot of headache of using the internals for Team Stealth.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: evilchris on January 08, 2008, 04:31:48 PM
If you want a 'set it and forget it' setup, set the mic sens to "low" and AGC to "on".  No levels to set or worry about!

You might get some warble from the AGC doing its thing, but that's as close as you'll get to a no-hassle recording.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: bbernardini on January 08, 2008, 08:53:52 PM
ADDENDUM:

Anybody had any experience using this recorder with external mics WITHOUT a battery box? Since we've already established I'm on a severe budget, would CoreSound Low Cost Binaurals be able to get enough power from the Edirol without draining the battery?
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: vanark on January 08, 2008, 09:27:09 PM
I ran some inexpensive Sound Professional binaurals (SP-BMC-2) straight mic-in at a Govt Mule show for my first recording.  Other than the phasing from moving around too much and the crowd since I was 4th row, it handled the sound fine.  No distortion and no clipping.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: bbernardini on January 08, 2008, 09:45:38 PM
I have to admit, I like the Croakies mounting option. Just have to figure out how that would work with my short hair.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: rhinowing on January 09, 2008, 10:51:10 PM
ADDENDUM:

Anybody had any experience using this recorder with external mics WITHOUT a battery box? Since we've already established I'm on a severe budget, would CoreSound Low Cost Binaurals be able to get enough power from the Edirol without draining the battery?
I've heard several CSB>R-09 tapes that sound fine.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: edtyre on January 10, 2008, 02:46:57 PM
I have to admit, I like the Croakies mounting option. Just have to figure out how that would work with my short hair.

Wear a hat too

you'll be fine  8)
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: bhakti on January 11, 2008, 02:49:16 AM
just ordered my croakie set from CA... anyone have any experience with them [or any croakies]... phasing? noise from your head/hair, etc.? placement? dig to hear any suggestions or stories

thanks
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: Belexes on January 11, 2008, 08:22:31 AM
just ordered my croakie set from CA... anyone have any experience with them [or any croakies]... phasing? noise from your head/hair, etc.? placement? dig to hear any suggestions or stories

thanks


The closer you are to the sound source, the more phasing you may get if you move your head. I had Lasik done, so I took a pair of reading glasses (fugly ones) and had plastic, no prescription lens installed. No real issues other than when I use this method I try not to move my head much.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: fmaderjr on January 15, 2008, 02:10:33 PM
When I used to use Croakies I only had 2 minor problems that cropped up occasionally.

When recording acoustic stuff it's easy to record your own breathing unless you make an effort to keep your breathing inaudible.

Once in a while I'd forget and scratch around my temple (or even touch my glasses) and that would get recorded too.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: Belexes on January 15, 2008, 03:21:04 PM
You certainly are limited to your body movement when stealthing that way, not to mention trying not to cough, sneeze, breathe?, etc...

I have a friend that stealths with mics on his head and he stands so still that I tell him he sticks out like a sore thumb!  The old human mic stand.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: evilchris on January 17, 2008, 04:36:27 AM
I prefer to stealth at shoulder-level, myself.  The shows I go to usually have heavy security, and they tend to be well-trained by the bands' heads of security (I've seen a few stealthers busted on several occasions), so it lets me blend in more easily, being able to bob my head, look around, etc.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: SoulBoogieAlex on January 22, 2008, 06:37:50 AM
If I read my Edirol correctly the input levels go from 0 to 30. Somewhere around 10 should get me a distortionless recording?
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: evilchris on January 22, 2008, 11:10:12 AM
Depends on what you're recording, where you're recording, the mics and batt box being used.  10 could be perfect, it could be too hot, or it could be too low.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: wklitz on January 22, 2008, 02:48:31 PM
I like the Croakies mounting option.

Do people actually still use Croakies in everyday life?  I thought the 80's were over.  Pretty much the only time I see Croakies are at a concert and it's someone taping...seems like a dead give away to security.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: Belexes on January 22, 2008, 03:18:49 PM
I like the Croakies mounting option.
Do people actually still use Croakies in everyday life?  I thought the 80's were over.  Pretty much the only time I see Croakies are at a concert and it's someone taping...seems like a dead give away to security.

Qft.  I feel the same way about a backwards ballcap.  Stealth needs to have some fashion sense.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: evilchris on January 22, 2008, 10:53:28 PM
That's why I don't use the croakies OR the cap.  :P
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: dactylus on March 28, 2008, 10:21:14 AM
I prefer to stealth at shoulder-level, myself.  The shows I go to usually have heavy security, and they tend to be well-trained by the bands' heads of security (I've seen a few stealthers busted on several occasions), so it lets me blend in more easily, being able to bob my head, look around, etc.


I 100% agree with the shoulder-level method.  Much less anxiety and the recordings can still be VERY sweet...

Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: bbernardini on May 09, 2008, 04:48:18 PM
Any more thoughts on this question?
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: hekiko on May 20, 2008, 07:13:46 AM
I have recorded live concerts using Edirol R-09 internal mic.
They were not Rock concerts, and I set the input level = 7 and the result was OK but I still got some cracks during some very loud notes.
In this case, the result would be very soft and I need to change the volume level of the recording with a sound editing application later, though (+400% or more) and reduce the bass.


I have set the AGC on once, but the result was much worse (very annoying indeed, with the volume going up and down unnaturally all the time).
So I would suggest input level = 5 or 6 using the internal mic to record in the open air. If you have to conceal the mic inside your jacket or something, higher input level is OK (7 or 8).
I put my Edirol inside a thick dark glove, start recording and switch the HOLD on and let just the mic portion slipped out.
Title: Re: Edirol R-09 - suggested input level for internal mics at big rock show?
Post by: bbernardini on May 20, 2008, 09:28:24 AM
I recorded the big rock show in question using some SP-CMC-19s and their cheapest battery box. I had the R-09 set at 14 for the opening act, and boosted it up to 16 or 17 for the headliner. I probably could have put it into the low 20s with no ill effects.