Topic: New: Schoeps MK22

[mmedley.]

Didn't see this posted anywhere else. Thanks to Dennis for pointing it out to me. 

Sexy. Who is going to be the guinea pig?



Schoeps MK 22g "Open Cardioid" Capsule for the Colette/CMC Series




The Open Cardioid combines the directional effect of the famous MK 4 Cardioid with the sonic character of the MK 21 Wide Cardioid. The Open Cardioid is an ideal alternative for instrument spot-miking, vocalists and "quasi-ORTF" stereophonic recording. The STC 22g stereo bar is also available as an accessory for two MK 22 capsules on KC 5 cables and the CCM22 compact microphones.

[H₂O]

Damnit the wish list is getting longer 

[gmm6797]

How would this work for live audience recording?

[Patrick]

Sexy capsule!  These would be excellent for audience taping.  I couldn't imagine these sounding anything but amazing onstage as well.

[H₂O]

Sounds like from the discrip it is between an mk4 and an mk21 - would need to see the freq response chart to see if their are any other differing characteristics

[mmedley.]

How would this work for live audience recording?

I am not sure. There is no info on Schoeps site that I can find. This came from Redding Audio's site. Maybe Mr. Satz might be able to shed some light on it before too long. The prelin info seems to indicate that stereophonic recording is applicable.


Edit:

Found this on Reddings site too...

Come listen to the MK22 at our booth #610 at the 125th AES in San Francisco October 3-5, 2008.

[muj]

hmm..sounds like their version of the dpa widecardiod (which is also a modified cardiod)

[Matt Quinn]

wow- that thing looks amazing.

[sgordo]

hmm..sounds like their version of the dpa widecardiod (which is also a modified cardiod)

The mk21 is the Schoeps wide cardiod.  It sounds like the mk22 is somewhere between the wide cardiod and cardiod.

Can't wait to hear em!

[mmedley.]

hmm..sounds like their version of the dpa widecardiod (which is also a modified cardiod)

The mk21 is the Schoeps wide cardiod.  It sounds like the mk22 is somewhere between the wide cardiod and cardiod.

Can't wait to hear em!

I wonder if there is a difference. I have always heard the MK21 as being a sub-cardiod, rather than a wide-cardiod. Wonder if it is translation or something?

[Matt Quinn]

hmm..sounds like their version of the dpa widecardiod (which is also a modified cardiod)

The mk21 is the Schoeps wide cardiod.  It sounds like the mk22 is somewhere between the wide cardiod and cardiod.

Can't wait to hear em!

I wonder if there is a difference. I have always heard the MK21 as being a sub-cardiod, rather than a wide-cardiod. Wonder if it is translation or something?

Same thing, AFAIK. If this thing sounds like a 21 but picks up like a 4, that would be my dream cap.

[H₂O]

Will this lead to a mk42? 

[Krispy D]

would this be a sub sub card?  the 4 is a card, the 21 is a sub card or wide card.  and this is in the middle?

[Brian Skalinder]

If this thing sounds like a 21 but picks up like a 4, that would be my dream cap.

That's how I read the marketing spiel:

The Open Cardioid combines the directional effect of the famous MK 4 Cardioid with the sonic character of the MK 21 Wide Cardioid.

Whether, or the extent to which it's true or not... 

[gmm6797]

anyone know of any direct recording comparisons between a cardioid (MK4) and wide cardioid (MK21)?

[Əkoostikal]

anyone know of any direct recording comparisons between a cardioid (MK4) and wide cardioid (MK21)?

Here is one I can think of, not exact comparison but pretty close.... Phil Lesh & Friends 2007-06-03

schoeps mk4 (ortf @ 7', fob, dfc) > kc5 > cmc6 > sd 744t (24/96) - http://www.archive.org/details/paf2007-06-03.schoepsmk4.barfield.85782.flac16

Schoeps mk21 (NOS)> NBox+> SD 722 (24/48) - http://www.archive.org/details/phil2007-06-03.mk21.nbox.flac16

I prefer the 21's for this recording but other shows I really love the sound of the 4's...... I think if this cap is in between it would be pretty much dead on for my taste. Can't wait to hear a show recorded with the 22's and maybe an NBox or v3.

[brianp]

sounds like this could be the perfect upfront kangol capsule. I want a pair.

[timP]

any word on price?

[Krispy D]

any word on price?

well it does say Schoeps in the front so my guess is expensive...



Wha'da'ya mean that wasn't helpful!

[Əkoostikal]

any word on price?

From Redding Audio: http://www.reddingaudio.com/schoeps/Schoeps%20Price%20List%2002-2008.pdf

- MK 22 - $875.00 each
- CCM 22 Lg - $2,129.00 each
- CCM 22 Ug - $2,129.00 each

- STC 22g Special version of STCg for (2) MK22 capsules with active cables or (2) CCM22 for “quasi-ORTF” stereophonic recording. The angle between capsules is 110° with a distance of 21 cm.  - $155.00

[boojum]

Posthorn:


http://www.posthorn.com/S_mk2.html


  Oooops, wrong mic.     

[DSatz]

Hi, just noticed this thread. Wasn't sure when the public would first hear of this new capsule type, so was keeping mum.

Yes, its pattern is between wide cardioid and "classic" cardioid, and no, it isn't an imitation of anything else. Yes, it works very well for live stereo recording. I'm a huge fan of Schoeps' wide cardioid capsules, but unfortunately I don't get to record very often in what I consider to be the right acoustics for their use. These new capsules can be used in more situations, and they do bring a lot of the sonic goodies of the wide cardioid.

You'll see many references to spot miking in Schoeps' promotional literature because that's where the original demand for this capsule design came from--and of course because that application represents a much larger target market than we do.

Someone asked about the capsule's frequency response, which I've posted as an attachment below.

About the terminology: There's no "official" scientific, non-proprietary name for the pattern which some people call "wide cardioid" and others call "subcardioid" or sometimes "hypocardioid." All three terms refer to any pattern near the mid-point between cardioid and omni. Where exactly a given design falls on the spectrum will depend on the manufacturer. Schoeps' MK 21 "wide cardioid" is intentionally not exactly in the middle, for example; its particular characteristics were decided through experimentation and practical listening tests. (Several of the engineers at Schoeps are into live recording.)

OK, I gotta go to my day job ... here's the frequency response graph. Note that the MK 22 has stronger low-frequency response than the MK 4 cardioid, which is no slouch.

--best regards

[boojum]

^^^  I have been pleased with the low end of the Mk4, but not thrilled.  The new Mk22 looks like it would be good.  And I have just sworn off buying new mics.  The rationalization I am using is that "I would need only the caps" and so would not spend as much money.  I will follow the reactions to these before I decide to go for a pair. 

To "get by" I run my CMC64's or CMC64/CMC68 (XY or MS) and run omnis outside and get the bass and space that way.  I suppose the Mk22 would solve that problem.  Hmmm.  Damned Germans; always coming up with something good.*    LOL

Cheers



*FWIW I am about 90% German and figure I can knock them now and again.  It's a family kind of thing for me.

[dactylus]

These caps have me leaning towards adding another brand of "hand built" German microphones to my arsenal...

Having never dealt with a USA Schoeps dealer who would you folks recommend for top notch customer service and the best prices on the Schoeps line of products?


 

[Matt Quinn]

These caps have me leaning towards adding another brand of "hand built" German microphones to my arsenal...

Having never dealt with a USA Schoeps dealer who would you folks recommend for top notch customer service and the best prices on the Schoeps line of products?


 

Prices are fixed AFAIK, same everywhere you go. People seem to really like Posthorn.

http://www.posthorn.com/

[dactylus]

These caps have me leaning towards adding another brand of "hand built" German microphones to my arsenal...

Having never dealt with a USA Schoeps dealer who would you folks recommend for top notch customer service and the best prices on the Schoeps line of products?


 

Prices are fixed AFAIK, same everywhere you go. People seem to really like Posthorn.

http://www.posthorn.com/

Thanks for the info.

[Əkoostikal]

Just browsing around the Schoeps site today and noticed they have all the info up for the mk22

Product Page - http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/open-cardioid.html
Specs - http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/specs-mk-ccm22.html

Also a cool PDF for the mk22 here: http://www.schoeps.de/PDFs/Schoeps_MK22-A4_med_res.pdf

[jerryfreak]

im really thinking about slutting it up with a pair of these. redding hasnt gotten any into the states yet. maybe a good thing

[dactylus]

im really thinking about slutting it up with a pair of these. redding hasnt gotten any into the states yet. maybe a good thing

I'm with you brother - 2009 mk22's looks like a distinct possibility to me.

 

[Kevin Straker]

These things better walk on water if they want to sound better than the 21's.

[jerryfreak]

are you doubting bernhard can walk on water?

blasphemy!

[scb]

hmm..sounds like their version of the dpa widecardiod (which is also a modified cardiod)

and is the greatest microphone on the planet

[muj]

hmm..sounds like their version of the dpa widecardiod (which is also a modified cardiod)

and is the greatest microphone on the planet

yeah...

[JasonSobel]

hmm..sounds like their version of the dpa widecardiod (which is also a modified cardiod)

and is the greatest microphone on the planet

actually, the schoeps mk21 is more like the DPA wide-card.

the DPA 4027 wide-card is at approx. -10dB at 180 degrees
the Schoeps mk21 is at approx. -10dB at 180 degrees
the Schoeps mk22 is at approx. -16dB at 180 degrees

so, all three mics are wide-cardiod (or "sub-cardiod").  as Dsatz has explained, there is no industry wide definition for wide-card or sub-card (and the two terms can be used interchangably).  All that it really means is that the polar pattern is somewhere between a cardiod and an omni.  In this case, the DPA 4027 and the Schoeps mk21 are both similar in their off-axis rejection, while the new mk22 is more on the cardiod side of things, with higher off-axis rejection compared to the mk21.

[sgordo]

hmm..sounds like their version of the dpa widecardiod (which is also a modified cardiod)

and is the greatest microphone on the planet

actually, the schoeps mk21 is more like the DPA wide-card.

the DPA 4027 wide-card is at approx. -10dB at 180 degrees
the Schoeps mk21 is at approx. -10dB at 180 degrees
the Schoeps mk22 is at approx. -16dB at 180 degrees

so, all three mics are wide-cardiod (or "sub-cardiod").  as Dsatz has explained, there is no industry wide definition for wide-card or sub-card (and the two terms can be used interchangably).  All that it really means is that the polar pattern is somewhere between a cardiod and an omni.  In this case, the DPA 4027 and the Schoeps mk21 are both similar in their off-axis rejection, while the new mk22 is more on the cardiod side of things, with higher off-axis rejection compared to the mk21.

 

[H₂O]

I got to hold a mk22 yesterday - pretty nice - I like the new laser engraving - instead of the brass engraving in the past the laser engraving only cuts into the outer nickle layer on the body so the color is now nickle. 

They are also starting to sell XLR-3 cables (EMI protected cables - using Nuetric EMI protection connectors) - a 10m is selling for about $350 ouch.

Also saw a new Schoeps 2 Channel AC Pre-amp - pretty nice as well.

[timP]

any explanation about the new grill or whatever that is on the end of the cap?


looks like a diaphragm

[H₂O]

No i did not ask and I kick myself for not asking - I was just picking up my vms 02ib as it was just sent back from Germany repaired - but it is the exact same "grill" configuration as the mk2h. 

http://www.schoeps.de/E-2004/omnis.html#mk2h

To me it looks like there is a metal screen on top that protects the diaphragm - you could not touch the metal plates of the diaphragm.

[jerryfreak]

wheres that? isnt AES still a few weeks out?

I got to hold a mk22 yesterday - pretty nice - I like the new laser engraving - instead of the brass engraving in the past the laser engraving only cuts into the outer nickle layer on the body so the color is now nickle. 

They are also starting to sell XLR-3 cables (EMI protected cables - using Nuetric EMI protection connectors) - a 10m is selling for about $350 ouch.

Also saw a new Schoeps 2 Channel AC Pre-amp - pretty nice as well.

[H₂O]

Redding Audio - I live 20 minutes away - they are getting ready for AES

[gmm6797]

I was just picking up my vms 02ib as it was just sent back from Germany repaired

What was wrong with the VMS02ib?  Cost? (just curious)

[jerryfreak]

so scott has mk22s in hand, eh?

::mercilessly abuses credit card::

Redding Audio - I live 20 minutes away - they are getting ready for AES

[Əkoostikal]

so scott has mk22s in hand, eh?

::mercilessly abuses credit card::

Redding Audio - I live 20 minutes away - they are getting ready for AES

ABUSE ABUSE ABUSE!!!! Then come to PA on the 13th. and give them a good workout!!   

[H₂O]

The mk22's he has are for AES.

What was wrong with the VMS02ib?  Cost? (just curious)

- Their was corrosion on one of the boards causing the audio to be extremely low (almost inaudible).   They had to replace a bunch of the caps, etc on this board (or possibly replace the whole board).  Probably caused from Batteries sitting in the unit too long (but not by me - I got it like this).

[dennisrtyler]

I got to hold a mk22 yesterday - pretty nice - I like the new laser engraving - instead of the brass engraving in the past the laser engraving only cuts into the outer nickle layer on the body so the color is now nickle. 

They are also starting to sell XLR-3 cables (EMI protected cables - using Nuetric EMI protection connectors) - a 10m is selling for about $350 ouch.

Also saw a new Schoeps 2 Channel AC Pre-amp - pretty nice as well.

how are these different from the cables they already sell(k 5,10,20,30 u), which run 80.00-140.00 ?

[H₂O]

how are these different from the cables they already sell(k 5,10,20,30 u), which run 80.00-140.00 ?

The cables are different in that they use the Neutrik EMC-XLR connectors where as the others do not.  The cable itself is the same 4 conductor cable as used on the cables you mention above.

http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/audio/204_1603252336/EMC-XLR_Series_productlist.aspx

"The EMC-XLR Series is a specifically designed version of the XX series to give enhanced RF screening for critical applications in live performance and recording where there are particular problems with radio transmission or mobile phones."

Scott said the reason the price is so high is that Schoeps is about to raise the prices on all their cables as right now they are loosing money on them as the cables are made in house now.  He said this is  the first cable with a higher price.  He did not know when they where raising the prices on the rest though.

[dennisrtyler]

how are these different from the cables they already sell(k 5,10,20,30 u), which run 80.00-140.00 ?

The cables are different in that they use the Neutrik EMC-XLR connectors where as the others do not.  The cable itself is the same 4 conductor cable as used on the cables you mention above.

http://www.neutrik.com/us/en/audio/204_1603252336/EMC-XLR_Series_productlist.aspx

"The EMC-XLR Series is a specifically designed version of the XX series to give enhanced RF screening for critical applications in live performance and recording where there are particular problems with radio transmission or mobile phones."

Scott said the reason the price is so high is that Schoeps is about to raise the prices on all their cables as right now they are loosing money on them as the cables are made in house now.  He said this is  the first cable with a higher price.  He did not know when they where raising the prices on the rest though.

thanks for the info. guess i need to go ahead and order a back up pair of the k5lu for my CCMs before they go up.

[Jhurlbs81]

anyone know when these will become available?

[boojum]

If anyone is seriously thinking of ponying up the cash for these mics they had better order soon.  I have a feeling the dollar is going to tank alongside of the Euro.  At one point the Euro was worth around 70 cents.  Today it was $1.35.  Not good for us, and Schoeps is not cheap and has no flex in price.

[Matt Quinn]

At one point the Euro was worth around 70 cents.  Today it was $1.35. 

I thought it was like $1.50 when I was in Amsterdam in March, so I guess that is good.

[jerryfreak]

we had almost 60 days warning last time, i think the supply chain is too established for schoeps to make drastic actions.

and i hate to admit it, but i feel when the american economy tanks its taking europe with it.

At one point the Euro was worth around 70 cents.  Today it was $1.35.

I thought it was like $1.50 when I was in Amsterdam in March, so I guess that is good.

[boojum]

we had almost 60 days warning last time, i think the supply chain is too established for schoeps to make drastic actions.

and i hate to admit it, but i feel when the american economy tanks its taking europe with it.

At one point the Euro was worth around 70 cents.  Today it was $1.35.

France, whose credit system s quite conservative and well-regulated is in fine shape.  So much for "Freedom Fries."  The rest of Europe is better off than we and also has a well-regulated credit and banking system.  Do you think this means anything??


I thought it was like $1.50 when I was in Amsterdam in March, so I guess that is good.

[jerryfreak]

Step right up!

Redding has matched pairs in stock.

[dactylus]

Step right up!

Redding has matched pairs in stock.

How much for a matched pair?

 

[Jhurlbs81]

Quote from: timP on September 04, 2008, 04:44:02 PM
any word on price?

From Redding Audio: http://www.reddingaudio.com/schoeps/Schoeps%20Price%20List%2002-2008.pdf

- MK 22 - $875.00 each
- CCM 22 Lg - $2,129.00 each
- CCM 22 Ug - $2,129.00 each

- STC 22g Special version of STCg for (2) MK22 capsules with active cables or (2) CCM22 for “quasi-ORTF” stereophonic recording. The angle between capsules is 110° with a distance of 21 cm.  - $155.00

[jerryfreak]

dont forget to add $50 (or is it $60 now?) for matching

[H₂O]

Yea, it's $50

 $875 x 2 + 50 = $1800

[ianstone]

i spoke to someone at AES who is going to work on getting a pair for me to demo 

[Əkoostikal]

i spoke to someone at AES who is going to work on getting a pair for me to demo 

Nice work!!

[jerryfreak]

you da man!

i know redding doesnt do demos, but that wouldnt stop a vendor from having a demo pair.

i spoke to someone at AES who is going to work on getting a pair for me to demo 

[dactylus]

i spoke to someone at AES who is going to work on getting a pair for me to demo 

Excellent - Hope that you are successful in acquiring the demo pair.  Can't wait to hear the results of a field test.


 

[discopanic1]

i might just have a new wish to add to the whole family's wishlist for christmas, as if i still had one but i guess that means cutting back on things i buy in life to try this pair out

[dennisrtyler]

Anyone? Bueller?

[Əkoostikal]

Anyone heard these or got any samples yet?? 

[ianstone]

no but i've been considering renting a set for the hampton run.

anyone want to chip in?

[JasonSobel]

a friend of mine will likely be purchasing a pair in the next month or so.  assuming that happens, Mr. Flaschner and sgordo will be borrowing them for Hampton.  we'll all get to hear them soon enough...

[DSatz]

I've made two stereo recordings with MK 22 capsules, both using a near-coincident setup similar to ORTF stereo. One was a recital of Italian art songs for tenor and piano held in a modern church with relatively bright acoustics; the other was an orchestra concert held in a huge, beautiful old stone church.

In the orchestra concert the increased low-frequency response (as compared with a standard cardioid) was definitely apparent, as was the increased pickup of room sound. There was also a definite increase in clarity as compared with wide cardioids at the same miking distance, which I had tried during the dress rehearsal.

--best regards

[JasonSobel]

it's on.  Rob's got a matched pair of the mk22's.  I'm going to try and convince Scott and Dave to borrow a pair of the m222's and run the tubes instead of the cmc6's for Hampton

[newplanet7]

it's on.  Rob's got a matched pair of the mk22's.  I'm going to try and convince Scott and Dave to borrow a pair of the m222's and run the tubes instead of the cmc6's for Hampton

MMW in feb first 

[Əkoostikal]

it's on.  Rob's got a matched pair of the mk22's.  I'm going to try and convince Scott and Dave to borrow a pair of the m222's and run the tubes instead of the cmc6's for Hampton

Nice!..... Can't wait to hear some samples of these mics.

[JasonSobel]

it'll be on-stage for Club d'Elf on Feb 6.  I'm not sure if Rob's taping anything before then...

[NOLAfishwater]

check out this old telefunken hifi microphone that is on ebay right now. the front grill/screen looks to be similar to the MK22 http://cgi.ebay.com/TELEFUNKEN-SCHOEPS-TC-600-HIFI-CONDENSER-MIC-TC600_W0QQitemZ120369529964QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item120369529964&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1234%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

[DSatz]

Nfw, I don't know whether Telefunken made their own consumer microphones or not, but I tend to doubt it. It's for sure that they never made studio microphones; they distributed the microphones of other established manufacturers, while requiring those manufacturers to put the Telefunken name and insignia on them. Similarly, Siemens sold studio microphones made by some of the same manufacturers, branded as "Siemens." Same thing with Philips. Revox sold several Beyer dynamic models as "Revox" microphones, while Studer sold Schoeps microphones as "Studer" microphones. Strässer, a well-known sound system installer in Germany, sold tons of Schoeps microphones--nearly all of them speech cardioids--as "Strässer" microphones. It's what people did back then in central Europe.

The modern form of this is the dozens and dozens of "microphone companies" who all order their stuff from the same three factories in China, jack up the prices by a factor of (several), and sell them to folks eager to believe that each new brand and model really represents something new and different. I suppose that the relative lack of quality control means that each one really is something unique and different--but not in the sense that most of us are looking for.

Now that I've said what I really think--the unusual front grille arrangement of the MK 22 (used earlier in the MK 2H omni) makes the capsule look distinctive, maybe even cool, but as far as I'm aware it is of no great consequence acoustically; it's just the way the thing is.

--best regards

[digifish_music]

Nfw, I don't know whether Telefunken made their own consumer microphones or not, but I tend to doubt it.

Well the e-bay ad is titled... "TELEFUNKEN SCHOEPS TC 600 HIFI CONDENSER MIC TC600" , no guessing necessary

[DSatz]

Right: No guessing is necessary to realize that the ad is wrong. What's shown in the photos isn't a Schoeps microphone in any way. Sellers on eBay often post incorrect information about microphones; one of the most common forms of misstatement is to attribute a cheap microphone to a prestigious manufacturer.

Another eBay violation, "keyword spamming," involves adding irrelevant but attractive names to the title of an auction so that it will show up in more people's searches. An example is the AKG D 19 microphone which is currently listed for sale with "Neumann" having been added to the auction title. (The AKG D 19 has no more to do with Neumann than the Telefunken microphone TC-600 has to do with Schoeps.)

--best regards

[NOLAfishwater]

I wasn't trying to say that they were Schoeps, but just that front of the capsule looked similar to the the MK22. It is blatently obvious that they aren't Schoeps.

[andyjah]

Does any one know how far apart the new STC22G ORTF bar keeps the capsules separated(in cm)? I just ordered a pair of the mk22s and would like to run them as recommended. I know it is more than 17 cm and less than the mk21s ORTF bar.

[Matt Quinn]

Does any one know how far apart the new STC22G ORTF bar keeps the capsules separated(in cm)? I just ordered a pair of the mk22s and would like to run them as recommended. I know it is more than 17 cm and less than the mk21s ORTF bar.

No answer for you, but....congrats! 

[andyjah]

Tax return came back and I had been tempted for too long on these. Thanks.

Also finally found the answer which is 21cm 110 degrees.

[JasonSobel]

Andy - nice going on the mk22's!

[Əkoostikal]

Congrats man! I have been drooling over these for some time now.

[andyjah]

Club d'Elf friday night will be the first gig for these. Now two pairs will be there. And we also will still be running the comp for 21s,4s,22s.

[tgakidis]

Club d'Elf friday night will be the first gig for these. Now two pairs will be there. And we also will still be running the comp for 21s,4s,22s.

Sluts like company......those will sound really nice for the Wood Brothers the following week too.

[andyjah]

Club d'Elf friday night will be the first gig for these. Now two pairs will be there. And we also will still be running the comp for 21s,4s,22s.

Sluts like company......those will sound really nice for the Wood Brothers the following week too.

Yes but not switching gear. Just adding.

[Kyle]

Found this while poking around this evening...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KDEIyQDg4A




this looked neat too

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooAxBdY0TNM

[H₂O]

I wasn't trying to say that they were Schoeps, but just that front of the capsule looked similar to the the MK22. It is blatently obvious that they aren't Schoeps.

mk22 has same front appearance as the mk2h

[DSatz]

H2, the two models look different in that the inner ring on the MK 22 is black while the ring on the MK 2H is brass-colored. In both cases this is regardless of the capsule's finish.

It's no big deal in any practical sense, and I doubt that anyone here will ever be able to, like, get someone to go out with them just for knowing this bit of trivia. But on the off chance that the information might make that crucial difference to someone here some day, I mention it, in the interest of preserving the taper species.

--best regards

[H₂O]

H2, the two models look different in that the inner ring on the MK 22 is black while the ring on the MK 2H is brass-colored. In both cases this is regardless of the capsule's finish.

Are the rings of different material or was this chosen for cosmetics?

[newplanet7]

Club d'Elf friday night will be the first gig for these. Now two pairs will be there. And we also will still be running the comp for 21s,4s,22s.

Inquiring minds want to know andy

[DSatz]

As common sense will tell you, the color of the rings has no effect on the sound quality of the capsules. But it's not just "cosmetics" either, since it's useful to be able to distinguish the two capsule types without staring impolitely at them.

[JasonSobel]

Club d'Elf friday night will be the first gig for these. Now two pairs will be there. And we also will still be running the comp for 21s,4s,22s.

Inquiring minds want to know andy

the schoeps comp actually turned into a four-way event.  mk21 vs mk22 vs mk4 vs mk41.

[newplanet7]

Club d'Elf friday night will be the first gig for these. Now two pairs will be there. And we also will still be running the comp for 21s,4s,22s.

Inquiring minds want to know andy

the schoeps comp actually turned into a four-way event.  mk21 vs mk22 vs mk4 vs mk41.

Allsome.
Thanks for the update jason.
Can't wait to hear the show.

[J.T.L]

...since it's useful to be able to distinguish the two capsule types without staring impolitely at them.

...and we don't want to offend the Schoeps, so sensitive.

[andyjah]

Jason was kind enough to hop in on the comp effort. He has all the files and is doing the transferring for us. Much thanks Jason.

[newplanet7]

Jason was kind enough to hop in on the comp effort. He has all the files and is doing the transferring for us. Much thanks Jason.

Nice.
Thanks jason and andy and rob.

[JasonSobel]

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,116906.0.html

[andyjah]

So here is a question to ponder. The mk22s are "meant" to be run at 21cm 110 degrees. Would there sonically be any drawback to running them straight ORTF? Would the 4cm less separation make much of a difference?

[taylorc]

So here is a question to ponder. The mk22s are "meant" to be run at 21cm 110 degrees. Would there sonically be any drawback to running them straight ORTF? Would the 4cm less separation make much of a difference?

Any input on the ORTF spacing?

[DSatz]

anyjah and taylorc, the MK 22 capsule wasn't designed for any one exclusive stereo setup. The stereo bar which Schoeps sells for that capsule (the "STC 22") was designed so that the pickup angle--what Dr. Michael Williams calls the "stereophonic recording angle"--would be similar to that of a real ORTF arrangement. But of course there is nothing sacred about that particular stereophonic recording angle. You always need to match the pickup angle of your setup to the geometry of the recording venue, and sometimes that calls for wider pickup angles while other times it calls for narrower ones.

By making the capsules closer together you would increase the stereophonic recording angle--or in other words, in playback, the stereo image will seem somewhat narrower than it would have been with the capsules farther apart. So it would be good if you could move the microphones proportionally a little closer to the sound sources than you would have done if they had been spread farther apart.

I have the "Williams chart" which the engineers at Schoeps worked out for the MK 22; if I'm reading it correctly, it says that the stereophonic recording angle for the recommended 21 cm distance with 110° between axes would be nearly ±50°, while for a 17 cm distance between capsules the angle would widen about 6° on either side of the center line. But I'd like to double-check those figures--I'll post a P.S. to this message one way or the other as soon as I've had a chance to do so.

--best regards