Topic: ALAC Now Open Source

[scb]

Corrected. ^^

So if Apple can make something useful they are problem solvers even if their solution is proprietary.

Maybe I'm just an idiot, but wouldn't any "solution" by definition be proprietary?  Wouldn't that be the whole point?  If some company said "this connector doesn't do what we want, there's isn't anything that exists that does what we want, so we'll combine the things we want it to do into 1 connector that takes up less space," wouldn't that always be a proprietary solution?  Sometimes it's a good idea that catches on and sometimes it's not. ADC was not. 

This discussion,  with the help of primarily me, has turned into a defense of apple for scb and that was not the purpose of this thread. Apple will do what they want and this thread won't change their mind with the way they design their products.

I'm not trying to defend Apple.  What's going on is the usual people trying to find fault with everything they do.  I'm just giving facts or reasons behind certain things.

I'd rather have a Displayport on my laptop than a DVI port.  That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I'd rather have a firewire port on my laptop than an extra USB port so I can connect to to my Sound Devices box.  That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I like that Apple laptops have a combined analog and optical out jack. That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I wish I had a "Thunderbolt" port on my laptop.  That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I use flac, but can understand why people might use Monkey's audio, wavpack, or Apple Lossless and won't complain that there are choices out there other than flac. That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I actually like the iPhone. That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I prefer the sound of AAC to MP3. That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.

[keytohwy]

Well... it is Apple. It's not like they've ever been a company to adhere to industry standards. God knows it would kill them to have just used mini usb rather than their ridiculous ipod connector.

oh, yeah speaking of proprietary... whytf do the laptops not use a standard DVI video input on their laptops? IF there were no third party making these connections, this would be called vendor lock in, but instead we can call it apple ripping off the customer by providing an official apple $30 display port adapter and not telling the customer about the $6 alternative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector
The Apple Display Connector (ADC) is a proprietary modification of the DVI connector that combines analog and digital video signals, USB, and power all in one cable. Apple used ADC for its LCD-based Apple Cinema Displays and their final CRT displays, before deciding to use standard DVI connectors on later models.
First implemented in the July 2000 Power Mac G4 and G4 Cube, ADC disappeared from displays in June 2004 when Apple introduced the aluminum-clad 20", 23", and 30" Apple Cinema Displays, which feature separate DVI, USB and FireWire connectors, and their own power supplies. The ADC was still standard on the Power Mac G5 until April 2005, when new models meant the only remaining Apple product with an ADC interface was the single processor Power Mac G5 introduced in October 2004. This single processor Power Mac G5 was discontinued soon after in June 2005.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
The Digital Visual Interface (DVI) is a video interface standard covering the transmission of video between a source device (such as a personal computer) and a display device.

emphasis mine.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ

ALL of the computers that had an ADC port also had alternate port as well.  Some had VGA, some later models had DVI.  So the consumer had a choice.  If you bought an Apple display, you got one cable for power, video and a built in USB hub.  Pretty slick.  Pretty gorgeous.  But you weren't forced to choose that.  I think maybe you are mistaken on that one that there was a forced issue.

As for the MiniDisplay Port connector, it only makes sense for them to use that in their thin laptops.  There simply isn't room for other, larger ports.  Apple developed this port, and licenses it FOR FREE.

[keytohwy]

There have been several references in this thread about Apple creating ALAC purely for profit or that their motives were for profit.

Perhaps there has been some misinformation about Apple out there.  But understand this; they are a FOR PROFIT company.

That said, I can imagine a time when Apple perhaps thought that they'd be able to offer ALAC as a means of getting better quality music on their store, and needed a DRM means of doing that.  But, Apple was never pro DRM.  Google Steve Jobs' open letter about DRM if you want to understand why they did what they did with AAC/DRM.  Anyway, perhaps the studios never let them move into lossless territory and so then they simply had a codec with no real home.  I just don't get the sense that it was created for any other grand scheme of locking people in, especially since it was never used, as far as I know, to make them one single penny.

BTW-I'm not a fan of Phish, but I know they've offered ALAC as a choice, alongside FLAC, for some time.  OMG!  Choice!

keytohwy

[rastasean]

Well... it is Apple. It's not like they've ever been a company to adhere to industry standards. God knows it would kill them to have just used mini usb rather than their ridiculous ipod connector.

oh, yeah speaking of proprietary... whytf do the laptops not use a standard DVI video input on their laptops? IF there were no third party making these connections, this would be called vendor lock in, but instead we can call it apple ripping off the customer by providing an official apple $30 display port adapter and not telling the customer about the $6 alternative.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Display_Connector
The Apple Display Connector (ADC) is a proprietary modification of the DVI connector that combines analog and digital video signals, USB, and power all in one cable. Apple used ADC for its LCD-based Apple Cinema Displays and their final CRT displays, before deciding to use standard DVI connectors on later models.
First implemented in the July 2000 Power Mac G4 and G4 Cube, ADC disappeared from displays in June 2004 when Apple introduced the aluminum-clad 20", 23", and 30" Apple Cinema Displays, which feature separate DVI, USB and FireWire connectors, and their own power supplies. The ADC was still standard on the Power Mac G5 until April 2005, when new models meant the only remaining Apple product with an ADC interface was the single processor Power Mac G5 introduced in October 2004. This single processor Power Mac G5 was discontinued soon after in June 2005.

 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface
The Digital Visual Interface (DVI) is a video interface standard covering the transmission of video between a source device (such as a personal computer) and a display device.

emphasis mine.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA5OQ

ALL of the computers that had an ADC port also had alternate port as well.  Some had VGA, some later models had DVI.  So the consumer had a choice.  If you bought an Apple display, you got one cable for power, video and a built in USB hub.  Pretty slick.  Pretty gorgeous.  But you weren't forced to choose that.  I think maybe you are mistaken on that one that there was a forced issue.

As for the MiniDisplay Port connector, it only makes sense for them to use that in their thin laptops.  There simply isn't room for other, larger ports.  Apple developed this port, and licenses it FOR FREE.

my girlfriends laptop does not have anything other than the apple connection but I bought an adapter at monoprice for $5-6.

[keytohwy]

[/quote]

my girlfriends laptop does not have anything other than the apple connection but I bought an adapter at monoprice for $5-6.
[/quote]

Correct.  I was responding to your link about a connector that was discontinued over 6year ago, and never applied to a laptop.  In fact, back then, Apple did offer a DVI port on laptops, while the rest majority of the wintel laptops offered only VGA.  But then they moved forward.

Fast forward to modern times, and you see that Apple offers a MiniDisplayPort across it's entire product line.  This port offers video AND audio, unlike the DVI port you lament missing.  Further, it allows systems like the MacBook Air to exist, as they simply aren't large enough for a DVI port.  The new Thunderbolt port offers further expansion from that same port.

Apple licenses that MiniDisplayPort to others, for free, allowing you to purchase, at your choice, a third party version inexpensively.

I'm not sure why you feel Apple is obligated to tell you about third party accessories instead of their own, but since Apple doesn't license axes, you are free to grind your own.

[lastubbe]

XLD for OSX can convert to and from ALAC to anything else (FLAC, MP3).

xACT, too.

Been converting FLAC>ALAC for my Classic playlists (complete shows) via xACT for sometime now. 

An extra step but I have no issues at all.

[lastubbe]

I'm not trying to defend Apple.  What's going on is the usual people trying to find fault with everything they do.  I'm just giving facts or reasons behind certain things.

I'd rather have a Displayport on my laptop than a DVI port.  That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I'd rather have a firewire port on my laptop than an extra USB port so I can connect to to my Sound Devices box.  That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I like that Apple laptops have a combined analog and optical out jack. That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I wish I had a "Thunderbolt" port on my laptop.  That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I use flac, but can understand why people might use Monkey's audio, wavpack, or Apple Lossless and won't complain that there are choices out there other than flac. That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I actually like the iPhone. That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.
I prefer the sound of AAC to MP3. That doesn't mean I'm defending Apple.

Well said Scott.  I concur from experience on all of the above.

[rastasean]

I have to say that thunderbolt seems pretty exciting since it could outperform the extremely expensive iscsi and hopefully make SAN storage a little less expensive, although you can't completely/directly compare the two.
Other good news: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=OTgyMQ

however none of this matters to me until hard drive prices drop but I don't think that will happen for awhile. The Thai people need to try to restore their lives before worrying about the american hard drive need.

[scb]

 I like that thunderbolt can support both USB and firewire adapters (though no one actually makes them yet).  so at least firewire support won't disappear even if firewire ports do

[H₂O]

Isn't thunderbolt pretty much a single lane PCIe "port" (I guess in addition to mini display port leads) - meaning it can pretty much support anything as long as you build an adapter for it.  I read of a company who is already testing a Thunderbolt dock that houses an external PCIe slot with a high end Graphics card installed.

 

[scb]

basically PCI express + displayport, yes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thunderbolt_%28interface%29

[noahbickart]

i would have bet 1 million bucks that you'd eventually type that response

I mean no company affiliation or company disrespect but I fail to see what ALAC brings to the table other than native iOS support.   As with the other codecs I mentioned (wavpack, monkey, etc) what is the benefit?   

The answers are simple:
1. Better battery life on the device playing the file (not usually a problem, I admit) and
2. Native ios (and itunes) support.

The latter makes it worth it for me. Again, if you don't like ALAC, or have a beef with Apple, this news isn't of much interest to you. It isn't even of much practical import anyway since the codec was reverse engineered many many years ago. The only upshot is that now that the codec is open source, more third party software folks will implement it in addition to FLAC, WAV, AIFF, etc.

For those of us who do use Apple products, that's a good thing.

[OFOTD]

better battery life on the device playing the file and native ios (and itunes) support. The latter makes it worth it for me.

Link to that information claim on battery life?   

This leads me to believe otherwise: http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=91530&view=findpost&p=773666

So again as I said previously other than iOS/iTunes where is the advantage of this particular codec?     

Looking at the facts from just a purely technical standpoint of the various lossless codecs, ALAC sits near the bottom of the pack.   

With regards to being open to more avenues of sharing the music, honestly that is a broad brush that gets overused on this site all too often.   Basicaly what is going on is the market is segregated not just by device manufacturers but now with manufacturer codecs.   I don't see how the latter favors the audio consumer?  You can buy Exile On Main St. for your iPod but if you want it for you Android phone your have to buy a different version.  If you want it on your PC you buy the WMAL version.  For fucks sake can't manufacturers just stick to devices instead of gouging us with redundant music codecs?   

So yes Apple fanboi's this is to you and its to the Windows fanboi's and the Linux ones too.   The problem of too many redundant codecs is not just Apple's fault but others just as equally.    If we look at a few of the largest sites for lossless music (etree, LMA, avax, DaD, HD Tracks) there is a reason why FLAC is so prevalent.   Its a damn good codec that offers many advantages over comparable codecs.    Sometimes having one option ISN'T a bad thing and actually benefits not only the content producer but the content purchaser as well.  Shocking I know.

For those of us who do use Apple products, that's a good thing.

Wouldn't the 'good thing' to do be allowing FLAC in the first place on iOS devices?   

[bryonsos]

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned Songbird as a flac solution for both PC and Mac. There are apps for both the iPhone and Androids, so it's basically platform neutral. I took an old MacBook, brain wiped it, and made it into a music server for all of my music. It literally only has what loads with OSX, Songbird and music. I don't put too many flacs (or mp3s for that matter) on my iPhone due to space considerations. Generally just the last few shows I've taped or downloaded. Anyway, if you haven't tried it, give it a whirl. Nice interface and feature set IMHO.

http://getsongbird.com/

[keytohwy]

You can buy Exile On Main St. for your iPod but if you want it for you Android phone your have to buy a different version. 

That simply isn't true. 

The iTunes store has been DRM-free for over two years.  But hey, why let facts get in the way of you making your point.