Topic: video stealth recording?

[Depechemode1993]

any advice? I want to know what the easiest way is to record a show without the camera being seen....

[Rand0mRoll77]

get on the balcony

black sweatshirt with a hole in it over your camera

i believe there is a photo & video forum here

[Depechemode1993]

yeah but nooone really gave me advie when I posted it there. this is ask the tapers forum right??? 

[Brian Skalinder]

I know we have a couple video tapers here, but you may not get many responses as most of us haven't ever recorded video.  Perhaps there's a video taper board online somewhere?  Dunno.

[Depechemode1993]

I wish I could get some help with this. I used to be just audio but I want to start recording some Audio and Video at the same time! that would be killer. plus at DTE they have some projection screens at curiosa fest and plan on taping the screen.

[firmdragon]

this kinduva a tricky question.  i've talked to a few filmers who;'ve done stealth filming.  unfortunately, there is no big secret amongst big time video stealthers.  how do you tape w/o being seen? you gotta cover the camera, you know that.  how do you shoot between ppl, avoiding heads/bodies? control the variables. get a friend to sit in front of you and bside you.  or buy out the seats. thus you're garuanteed to get good view.  as you may have guessed, i wouldn't use the lcd screen.  that's almost a dead give away.  take a few peeks here and there to check if the cam is still focused on the stage.  zoom in as necessary.  tripods/mono pods help.  you don't need to check if the cam is still lined up or not as much.

from what i've been told filming is really hit or miss. 

i really don't know how ppl like lividz shoots films and makes perfect zooms like every few seconds. 

[Depechemode1993]

where can I get one of these monopods and how do they work? I have a tripod but stealthing with that would be a daead giveaway..... i tried it ones and got caught with the last song to go....

[bossanova]

Try  www.pedcopods.com

The ultrapod  resting on your chest will help to steady the camera.

So do people use a black hoody or sweatshirt to hide the camera ?

Wearing the sweatshirt ?
Or just cut a hole in it, and hold the camera while it is in the sweatshirt.

I was thinking if you cut the whole in the hoody hand pouches,
then you could at least use your hands, but the camera needs to be higher,
so it prob cant be while wearing it, unless you cut the hole at chest level.

[joolz]

I'm not very experienced, but I've done a couple of vids in different venues.

Tactics depends on the venue. if it's arena sized, get a seat at the rear dead centre if possible, you can probably put the camera on your thigh (reduces shaking), set up using LCD, and just check occassionally, cover with coat/jumper. If you get brave or have the opportunity you can try a bit more zooming, but generally just get the stage in the shot and leave it be.

If the venue is small and you're on the balcony, well it's much more difficult and the same method don't really work, as you'll need to get the camera as high as possible to get a shot through heads/shoulders (risky, as I know from experience). In which case you'll be better off on the front row (I did play around with putting cam in a sweaty armpit with a hole in a shirt, but never put it into practice)

It really depends on the venue and the position, just be flexible, obviously a tripod/minipod will improve the recording but I would expect they are tricky to set up (but still possible) and give a lack of flexibiity.

[bossanova]

You can also check this thread, I posted on how I've video'ed stealth.


http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=43511.msg676045#msg676045

[gngrbrdman13]

Try a speaker sock to cover the camera.  Some cameras have a red led light that shows that the camera is recording cover it with a piece of gaffers tape.  It is pretty tricky.  Sometimes people around you get really annoyed that there is video there.  Best to be in the middle of a section as you are less likely to have ushers/security see you.  Front ro balcony is ideal.  Holding the camera w/o a monopod sucks.  Even though it is lightweight after 10 -15 minutes in the same position muscles start to give way and produce high amounts of lactic acid causing arms to shake involuntarily...hard to avoid.

[firmdragon]

Try a speaker sock to cover the camera.  Some cameras have a red led light that shows that the camera is recording cover it with a piece of gaffers tape.  It is pretty tricky.  Sometimes people around you get really annoyed that there is video there.  Best to be in the middle of a section as you are less likely to have ushers/security see you.  Front ro balcony is ideal.  Holding the camera w/o a monopod sucks.  Even though it is lightweight after 10 -15 minutes in the same position muscles start to give way and produce high amounts of lactic acid causing arms to shake involuntarily...hard to avoid.

the red light thing is pretty trivial.  in new sonys you can just make sure they never turn on in the menu.  it's under recording lamp.

[gngrbrdman13]

i was merely sharing some thoughts

[bossanova]

What's a Speaker Sock ?

Black foam or cloth tube ??

[gngrbrdman13]

A speaker sock is the thin, black cover that is stapled to the cover on a speaker to protect the cones.  I like them b/c they are thin and easy to manage.  A sweatshirt/t shirt is too bulky.

dd

[firmdragon]

i was merely sharing some thoughts

oh no. that wasn't a jab at you. that was just a bit of info i learned along the way.  i actually did the whole tape over the red light for a few months before realizing hey i could just turn this thing off after being bored one day and going through the menus thoroughly

[gngrbrdman13]

That is good information.  I should have stated that in my post!!!

dd

[BuddyGoodness]

I just looked through my hc-21 sony minidv, couldn't find anything in the menu about shutting the red light off. 

[sabre]

I just looked through my hc-21 sony minidv, couldn't find anything in the menu about shutting the red light off. 

Is there a menu option called "Rec lamp"? That's what it's called on my Sony HC-30.

[BuddyGoodness]

nothing.  maybe that is an option for the more "luxurious" model.  Mine is the bare bone model.  this is the model they sell at wal-mart though I didn't buy mine there.

[sabre]

Damn, it sounds like they stripped all the useful features from the HC-21 model.  I guess you'll need to use some black tape to cover the recording lamp. Also, make sure you also cover the green light next to the swtich to turn the camera on/off. Even though the band on stage won't see it, people behind you and around you will notice it...

[BuddyGoodness]

good idea, thanks.

[hydrobud]

good idea, thanks.

its in there,i have the same camera.

open the lcd while in camera mode

click the FN button

then click the menu button

scroll down and click the ETC button

scroll down to rec. lamp and turn off.

[BuddyGoodness]

yeah, found it thanks.

[guitard]

The best place to put the camera is on your lap.  If you can put a magazine or something on your lap - that can help a lot.  You can adjust the up/down angle by going up on tips of your toes - but that'll kill you if you try to do for too long.

Of course, the best way to shoot is with the LCD window open - but that'll also get you busted really quick.  However, a neat little trick I picked up from a very experienced filmer: get a piece of the plastic used for window tinting and cover your LCD monitor with it (tape it on all four sides).  Use two sheets if it's not very dark.  That'll reduce the light signature dramatically - but you'll still be able to see what's happening on stage.

But the safest way is to use the normal viewfinder.  Let's face it - a static shot of the stage sucks big time.  You want to zoom in/out as appropriate.  The way you do it is simple: get to know your viewfinder.  It's not as hard as it sounds.  Turn on all of the available viewfinder options (battery life, timer, etc., etc.) and know where each is positioned on the screen.  You can also use the green recording light.  On my cam, the green recording light is top center.  The timer is lower left, just left of center.  Of course, all of this is assuming you have a camera that you can set on your lap and still look through the viewfinder.  Can't do that with a Sony HC-21 because the viewfinder doesn't adjust up or down - it only extends outward.

But getting back to looking through the viewfinder... if you know the green recording light is top center - just take a peek into the viewfinder and zoom in and frame the shot so that whatever you want at the top of the picture is just below the green light.  For example, if you zoom in on the lead vocalist - do it so the green light is right at the top of his head - and voila - you've got a nice shot. 

Like most things in life - practice makes perfect.

[bossanova]

Green light should probably be covered, to avoid detection.

Thanks for the tip on the LCD tinting film.

I have a SONY HC-32, similar to your HC-21
Can you tell me what Exposure, White Balance settings, and any other modes you used ?


Thanks

[bossanova]

Here's a photo of my hc-32 attached, which I've stealthed
with black electrical tape, and a fake 2nd lens.

I hold it sideways to record, and only use the ViewFinder.
So you have to digitally rotate the recording,
using Ifilmedit or Adobe premiere.

I also use an ultrapod as a handgrip, which helps to steady it.

This makes detection by security a non-issue, as they just think
you have binoculars.

[BuddyGoodness]

Do a lot of people bring binoculars to shows? Because for a security guard to not become suspicious and just assume it is a binocular there would have to be a lot of people bringing them to the showw. I have never seen anyone using binoculars personally. 

[bossanova]

Do a lot of people bring binoculars to shows? Because for a security guard to not become suspicious and just assume it is a binocular there would have to be a lot of people bringing them to the showw. I have never seen anyone using binoculars personally. 

Actually at all the concerts I have been to there have been people with binoculars.

Depends on the size of the venue, but most arena shows there are lots of binoculars.

Of course, if it is a small club, that seats 100, then there probably wont be too many binoculars.

At opera houses, and theaters of about 1000 - 5000, I have always seen people with binoculars.

[BuddyGoodness]

hmmm, very interesting.  I might have to give it a try sometime.

[bossanova]

Also, if you are sitting far away in the nosebleed seats or balcony,
then the camcorder actually does work as binoculars.

The Sony HC-32 has 20X optical zoom, which is better than some binoculars.

[guitard]

Green light should probably be covered, to avoid detection.

If this was in response to the green light that I mentioned - I'm referring to the green light (red light when in "pause" mode) that appears on the viewfinder screen itself.

[bossanova]

Ok,  thanks for the green light clarification.

Since the viewfinder on the HC-32 is black and white,
there's no color.  So it's just a white circle for me.

That's my only complaint so far about the HC-32, is B&W viewfinder.

The HC-42 has a bit better CCD, and color viewfinder,
but only 10X optical zoom.

I like the 20X optical zoom on the HC-32.
It has 800X digital zoom, but that's pretty useless.

I turn off all the digital zooming.

[guitard]

Here's a little illustration of what I mean by "getting to know your viewfinder."  I'm using my Panasonic GS-120 mini-DV cam as an example and shooting pics with a digital photo camera.

This pics shows you what all is viewable in the viewfinder when you hold your eye up to it:



With the GS-120 sitting on my lap, this is a very good approximation of what I see when I look down into the viewfinder with the camera properly positioned (I couldn't get a decent digital photo, so I had to cut and paste the little red camera - but size-wise - this is accurate - YES! it really looks that big):



So - using the little red camera as a basis for framing the shot - knowing that it's top-center - you can zoom in and out and generally maintain a well-framed shot.  And with the camera on your lap - you should be able to avoid looking suspicious to security personnel.  If you want to get a closeup of the vocalist singing - zoom in and spot the red camera right on top of his head.  Zoom out and have it hovering a little bit above his head.  Simple as that.

[guitard]

Regarding that little green light ~ I was wrong with the Panasonic cam.  It's always a red light.  The pause / record letters change color though.

[gngrbrdman13]

Of course, the best way to shoot is with the LCD window open - but that'll also get you busted really quick.  However, a neat little trick I picked up from a very experienced filmer: get a piece of the plastic used for window tinting and cover your LCD monitor with it (tape it on all four sides).  Use two sheets if it's not very dark.  That'll reduce the light signature dramatically - but you'll still be able to see what's happening on stage.

Thank you for this tip...never thought of it.

[trippingoat]

alright, if you were holding a camera without a tripod, how would it be possible to wrap a tshirt around it?.just seems alittle hard...would it be so bad as to not use the tshirt and just make sure all the lights are covered up?

[evasivetear]

what are some people's methods of getting cameras into these shows?

some of the nontaping shows i've been to lately (tool being one of them), they pretty much molested me during the pat down...and yet i know that people have gotten either audio or video from a majority of those shows

[guitard]

alright, if you were holding a camera without a tripod, how would it be possible to wrap a tshirt around it?.just seems alittle hard...would it be so bad as to not use the tshirt and just make sure all the lights are covered up?

Just like anything else - practice makes perfect. 

Get everything set up and try it out.  Do it out in the garage.  Set up a lawn chair at one end of the garage, light up some small objects at the other end, turn off the main light, and practice. 

[guitard]

what are some people's methods of getting cameras into these shows?

some of the nontaping shows i've been to lately (tool being one of them), they pretty much molested me during the pat down...and yet i know that people have gotten either audio or video from a majority of those shows

Did you see any of the security people get right up in a guy's nuts and grope around his crotch area?  If they did, they can go to jail.

So there you go!

[evasivetear]

Did you see any of the security people get right up in a guy's nuts and grope around his crotch area?  If they did, they can go to jail.

So there you go!

pretty close actually....

guess i was wondering if there were any other methods someone's tried rather than sticking a camera down their pants

[guitard]

Did you see any of the security people get right up in a guy's nuts and grope around his crotch area?  If they did, they can go to jail.

So there you go!

pretty close actually....

guess i was wondering if there were any other methods someone's tried rather than sticking a camera down their pants

You can try hiding the cam in a bag of some sort.  If it's really small, you have a good chance of getting it in that way.  But bags will get searched EVERY time.  If you go this route, best bet would be to put in your wife's or girlfriend's purse.

[evasivetear]

thanks for the reply

it's rare that i go to shows that don't allow taping...but just good for common knowledge i guess.

[Chill]

Fat suit with video camera in it on the bacony.

It would be hot, but got to do what you got to do. 

[willndmb]

i have seen the window tint in action, works great, still has light let off so you have to watch your back but nowhere near as much as normal
def double it up, maybe even 3 times

if you don't.can't use a mono you can try this too
tie a string, thick string, to the bottom of the camera
tie a washer on the other end
stand on the washer while holding the camera up with the string tight

with the string tight you will get a much better recording vs holding it freearm, doesn;t seem like much but you are basically taking away movement up and down A LOT

[bconnolly]

Oh wow that's pretty smart.  Thanks for the tip!

[sullen]

this:

http://www.hoodmanusa.com/Camcorder_Hoods.asp

i havent ordered one yet,
but imagine to be very sleek for lcd > stealth

hood + tint = nearly invincible i'd imagine.

[dunebug81]

what are some people's methods of getting cameras into these shows?

some of the nontaping shows i've been to lately (tool being one of them), they pretty much molested me during the pat down...and yet i know that people have gotten either audio or video from a majority of those shows

When they get close to your nuts just let out a big pleasure moan and smile.  That pretty much stops them every time

[mrfang]

You can try hiding the cam in a bag of some sort.  If it's really small, you have a good chance of getting it in that way.  But bags will get searched EVERY time.  If you go this route, best bet would be to put in your wife's or girlfriend's purse.

I have been able to get a video camera into a venue on a couple of occasions by wrapping it in a black t-shirt at the bottom of a black backpack and loading the backpack with lots of other things on top of the camera.  I've heard other filmers say that security will stop searching if they find something (other than your taping gear) they can confiscate, like a bottle of water.

Some people use bags with false bottoms, which seem to work fine.

[gngrbrdman13]

great ideas however, i dont think its wise to discuss methods of sneaking gear in here.

might consider the modify button.

its just a matter of opinion

dd

[morningdew]

On the other hand I feel the complete opposite.

Freely discuss ALL methods, means and tactics to get in any type of recording (audio or video) gear in to venues.   Stop being so paranoid over nothing.

The venue rules are constantly changing.  For the most part it's just a show that a venue puts on to fulfill some obligation to either an insurance company, the bands request or some law enforcement agency in the rare circumstance that they received a tip that the venue was under some sort of threat.  People have been sneaking crap into venues for decades.  Do you really think you're going to reveal some method that they aren't aware of?  Do you really even think they care?  If they wanted you not to get something in then they would do it differently.  Try getting a gun into an airport.  Sure it probably can be done but it ain't easy.

Now try getting some recording eq into a Springsteen concert.  Seems pretty easy to me considering the amount of tapes there are out there.

Do you really think people are monitoring these boards looking for methods or info on how/when/where we sneak in gear?  I doubt it.  And even if they are, so what!

Tomorrow night I'll be at Pine Knob in Clarkston, MI sneaking in audio recording equipment to a Gin Blossoms concert.  I'll probably be wearing shorts, t-shirt and sunglasses.  My wife will have the recorder in the false bottom of her purse.  I'll have the mics and cables crotched in whitey tighties in a crown royal bag.  I will suit up in the bathroom before the show.  The mics will be under a Kangol or a backwards black mesh baseball cap. See ya there security .

This is just a matter of opinion though.

Other great methods:

1. A wheel chair is full proof but obviously has other issues.  Just about any rig will fit under the seat.
2. Tons-o-venues now have "outside" smoking areas.  A friend on the outside and you can sneak in some very nice "big" rigs this way. I've never seen them searching anyone coming back from a smoke break, I'm sure it exists, but I haven't seen it personally.
3. Purses are rarely patted.  You can get fancy and sew in a false bottom but it's not even necessary, just drape over some similar colored cloth.  They just look in, sometimes move something to the side and move on.  R4/722/UA-5/Small DV camera w/ tapes all fit on the bottom of a large purse.

[gngrbrdman13]

On the other hand I feel the complete opposite.

Freely discuss ALL methods, means and tactics to get in any type of recording (audio or video) gear in to venues.   Stop being so paranoid over nothing.

The venue rules are constantly changing.  For the most part it's just a show that a venue puts on to fulfill some obligation to either an insurance company, the bands request or some law enforcement agency in the rare circumstance that they received a tip that the venue was under some sort of threat.  People have been sneaking crap into venues for decades.  Do you really think you're going to reveal some method that they aren't aware of?  Do you really even think they care?  If they wanted you not to get something in then they would do it differently.  Try getting a gun into an airport.  Sure it probably can be done but it ain't easy.

Now try getting some recording eq into a Springsteen concert.  Seems pretty easy to me considering the amount of tapes there are out there.

Do you really think people are monitoring these boards looking for methods or info on how/when/where we sneak in gear?  I doubt it.  And even if they are, so what!

Tomorrow night I'll be at Pine Knob in Clarkston, MI sneaking in audio recording equipment to a Gin Blossoms concert.  I'll probably be wearing shorts, t-shirt and sunglasses.  My wife will have the recorder in the false bottom of her purse.  I'll have the mics and cables crotched in whitey tighties in a crown royal bag.  I will suit up in the bathroom before the show.  The mics will be under a Kangol or a backwards black mesh baseball cap. See ya there security .

This is just a matter of opinion though.

Other great methods:

1. A wheel chair is full proof but obviously has other issues.  Just about any rig will fit under the seat.
2. Tons-o-venues now have "outside" smoking areas.  A friend on the outside and you can sneak in some very nice "big" rigs this way. I've never seen them searching anyone coming back from a smoke break, I'm sure it exists, but I haven't seen it personally.
3. Purses are rarely patted.  You can get fancy and sew in a false bottom but it's not even necessary, just drape over some similar colored cloth.  They just look in, sometimes move something to the side and move on.  R4/722/UA-5/Small DV camera w/ tapes all fit on the bottom of a large purse.

You are entiltled to your feelings and I respect your decisions.  I KNOW that people have been busted for what they wrote out on this board and called out by name at shows for it. 

[ianstone]

here's a tip:

If you're recording a show dont sit next to the tapers

and another:

aside from not sitting near the tapers, dont attempt it with the cam in your lap, even though your in the front row of the balcony



i don't video tape, so take this info with a grain of salt, right DD?

[gngrbrdman13]

here's a tip:

If you're recording a show dont sit next to the tapers

and another:

aside from not sitting near the tapers, dont attempt it with the cam in your lap, even though your in the front row of the balcony



i don't video tape, so take this info with a grain of salt, right DD?

fuckin' HOB Vegas.....remember how they haunted me all night after that too?  It was so difficult to use my phone.......

I hate you!

see you next week.  I am going to ruin skalinders cmc6 bodies so you have to buy them from him.

[Nick's Picks]

Hey...
anyone ever use one of these?

http://www.shoplocal.com/iid713242prid-99827_-samsung-all.fp

[Yahoo! Serious]

Hey...
anyone ever use one of these?

http://www.shoplocal.com/iid713242prid-99827_-samsung-all.fp

That really is a small xamera!
Looks like they will need to improve batterylife and image quallity..but overall execution of design is pretty sweet.
I could imagine that checking the shots with the LCD would not disturb the Cameraphone freindly audiences and security of today,
nice.
 One old tried and true vid cap option that has worked for me was sitting near the back on a lawn with a blanket freindly couple
sitting in front of me..proping the camera inbetween my knees which keeps it steady and stelthy.Lay back and enjoy!
Mostly shoot more legitimate (read Non Bootleg) video nowa-days,Gots some decent hookups over the years.
and hello to those here,Been filming since 1997 and was inspired by Lividz stuff way back when he was still in AZ.Met him twice before
he gracefully faded away.
Y!S

[VH Drummer]

I'll be giving it a shot on Saturday but I'm aiming for the second half of the show mostly and it will be dark outside by that time so I'm not too worried.

[sabre]

Been filming since 1997 and was inspired by Lividz stuff way back when he was still in AZ.Met him twice before
he gracefully faded away.

Whatever happened to Lividz? He used to post a lot in the alt.music.bootlegs newsgoup but then he disappeared. I've heard a couple of stories, but who know if they were true...

[gngrbrdman13]

Hey...
anyone ever use one of these?

http://www.shoplocal.com/iid713242prid-99827_-samsung-all.fp

they have actually been around for a couple of years now.  Great concept however, I dont think many of us on this board would be happy with the quality.  In 2003 I saw Panasonic had a camera that had a similar design to this one.  The only difference was that it was high quality.  Oh and much larger.

[guitard]

Hey...
anyone ever use one of these?

http://www.shoplocal.com/iid713242prid-99827_-samsung-all.fp

they have actually been around for a couple of years now.  Great concept however, I dont think many of us on this board would be happy with the quality.  In 2003 I saw Panasonic had a camera that had a similar design to this one.  The only difference was that it was high quality.  Oh and much larger.

Here's an unbiased review of this camera:

http://www.camcorderinfo.com/content/Samsung-SC-X105L-Camcorder-Review.htm

[dreamer]

i hold my dv camera with BOTH HANDS...like a binocular throughout the entire show. never with one hand . dead giveaway.
yea its tiring but i usually use the armrest to rest my elbows on and to prevent shaking.
but even without the armrest, both hands/arms holding the camcorder keeps it steady.

my worry now is whether or not the metal detectors are gonna detect it for the up coming GUNS N ROSES SHOW.