Topic: Taping Really close to the stacks?

[Charlies]

Again, all I'm saying is that you are not theoretically losing anything if you set up correctly on the stack...compare your stack tape to a soundboard of the same show..... the bass will sound the same...  the only thing you are missing is when the stack tape is compared to an aud tape from farther back.  It all depends on the sound you are looking for (I only stack tape when circumstances do not permit a more preferable set up).

+for giving it a shot.

edit to add: Sounds like you were in a bowery-type room..a stack tape is definitely not worth running 200 feet of cables in that type of room!

[charles]

I know this thread is pretty much done...but thought I'd add my 2 cents from a Nak users perspective. I've taped one YMSB show about 4' back DFC in a rough ORTF with cm300/cp1>AD-20>D8 and had very good results. I ran them at about 10' feet angled down about 20 deg. Of course, my cm300's run very low gain....at most shows I'm running levels on my AD-20 close to the top. Like I said the results were fantastic. Only downside was of course crowd noise.....some of this had to do with the type of crowd I was dealing with.....some with how much the ORTF and the down angle opened them up to crowd noise. But, had the crowd been the more quiet kind.....it would be spectacular. Like I said, just my 2 cents for other Nak users out there.

[Tim]

Again, all I'm saying is that you are not theoretically losing anything if you set up correctly on the stack...

you're completely wrong about this. I've tried to explain it and you didn't understand, I figured this guy trying it and saying that it didn't work would convince you. Apparently not.

compare your stack tape to a soundboard of the same show..... the bass will sound the same... 

this statement could not be anymore false.

how do you think the sound gets to the speakers? it is routed through the board, if you are humping a mid-hi cabinet (as was the case here) you will not be be getting the same bass as appears on the soundboard tape.

[Tim]

I know this thread is pretty much done...but thought I'd add my 2 cents from a Nak users perspective. I've taped one YMSB show about 4' back DFC in a rough ORTF with cm300/cp1>AD-20>D8 and had very good results. I ran them at about 10' feet angled down about 20 deg. Of course, my cm300's run very low gain....at most shows I'm running levels on my AD-20 close to the top. Like I said the results were fantastic. Only downside was of course crowd noise.....some of this had to do with the type of crowd I was dealing with.....some with how much the ORTF and the down angle opened them up to crowd noise. But, had the crowd been the more quiet kind.....it would be spectacular. Like I said, just my 2 cents for other Nak users out there.

you were taping a new-grass band that doesn't have drums, electric guitar, or an electric bass. the amount of lowend at a show like that you would get at a loud rock and roll show like the Truckers. Apples and Oranges..

[charles]

No shit! Yeah....I understand the difference b/w a band like Truckers and YMSB......just making a comment about close to stack tape specific to a certain type of music and mics.....I'm sure there's someone out there whom that information could be usefull to.  '

BTW though....I think Apples and Oranges is a bit drastic. There are still aspects shared here.

[Tim]

BTW though....I think Apples and Oranges is a bit drastic. There are still aspects shared here.

both bands have vocals, other than that what would those aspects be?

[Charlies]

From experience, I reiterate the following:

1.  The risk of stack taping is that you set up incorrectly so that your mics are not in a position to absorb the entire range of sound coming out of them.

2.   You will rarely be able to position your mics on the stack so that you can capture the entire range of sound coming out of them.

3.   Because the lowest bass coming out of the stacks will generally be beyond the range of your mics, you can increase your likelihood of not losing any of the highs without compromising your lows much by positioning your mics closer to the mid-and-high-end boxes.

4.  As a result, in the right circumstances, the stack tape will have the same range of *music* on it as the section tape, but for the bit of low end you may not be able to capture due to stack configuration and corresponding mic placement.  The section tape will have more room noise and a more full sound (more of a boomy low end) due to the distance from the stack providing room for the distinct sounds coming out of the stack to combine (or, if you're beyond the sweet spot, to become jumbled).

5.  For shits and giggles, here is a recording from 4 or less inches from the stack in which I believe the circumstances were preferable for a good recording. (Moe DAR 04) http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=29580.0.

6.  To compare, here is a recording from very close (1-2 feet), but due to the low profile requirements of the situation, preferable mic placement could not be achieved and hence more low end and less high end on the tape (the mics had to be hanging out of a computer bag at hip level in front of a stack that was 7-8 feet high).  Although the tape has limitations, it was the only tape pulled and was really the only choice to get any recording. (Weir, Hart DC 9/2004) http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=30578.0

I will open up either of these if anyone really wants to discuss this or make the decision on this stuff for yourself.  Let me know.

-Charlies   

[spyder9]

My 2 Bob Dylan recordings were taped pointed at the stack, with hypers on my AT853RX, and they came out great.  Best shows I ever taped.  Did the same thing for Gregg & Friends a month ago.  Its all about setup.  Too close will definitely throw too much bass in the recording.  But, give me a stack and my AKG 568 shotguns and I'm a happy camper.  The Card and Omni folks can have the DFC.  Just my 2 cents.

[Todd R]

My 2 Bob Dylan recordings were taped pointed at the stack, with hypers on my AT853RX, and they came out great.  Best shows I ever taped.  Did the same thing for Gregg & Friends a month ago.  Its all about setup.  Too close will definitely throw too much bass in the recording.  But, give me a stack and my AKG 568 shotguns and I'm a happy camper.  The Card and Omni folks can have the DFC.  Just my 2 cents.

Just making sure we're on the same page here.  This thread is about close taping of stacks, from 3 inches to as much as 4 feet away.  Not the same thing as just pointing at the stack.  Is this what you were talking about for Dylan, etc?  I'm having a hard time picturing using shotgun mics 1 foot away from the stacks.