Author Topic: LSD cable...sucks (Read 9938 times)

Nick's Picks · « **on:** March 28, 2006, 09:21:44 AM »

anyone else notice that the cables are backwards? or is it just mine?
the red xlr is the left channel on mine.
d'oh ! I noticed this last time I used it, and just verified.

larrysellers · « **Reply #1 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:31:21 AM »

I know that LeeGeddy (marc) made a silver cable for the LSD2 for bhtoque (jason) . I think they had to cannibalize the original cable to get the correct pin-out but I am sure one of our silver cable gurus could make this happen. I would certainly buy one.

vwmule · « **Reply #2 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:39:45 AM »

I'd be down for one, too. Just put in order for an LSD2.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #3 on:** March 28, 2006, 09:40:56 AM »

i've figured out the pin out already. I just have not found suitable cable to make my own w/o having to do it from scratch. i'd like to find a nice shielded HQ copper 26awg 6 conductor cable...that's been cryo'd.

I'll gladly make custom cables for these provided I can find proper materials.
any length.

Massive Dynamic · « **Reply #4 on:** March 28, 2006, 10:10:05 AM »

I just picked up an LSD2. When I connected what I believe to be the left and right connections, the top capsule is L and the bottom capsule is R. Is this the same as everyone else's?

Oh yeah, I'd like a nice cable, too, with Neutrik ends that slide more easily into my PS-2.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #5 on:** March 28, 2006, 10:19:15 AM »

and is 1 right?

RebelRebel · « **Reply #6 on:** March 28, 2006, 10:19:24 AM »

Quote from: m0k3 on March 28, 2006, 09:43:49 AM

as a first time user, and not entirely familiar with the unit,.... The Royer sf24 stereo mic has a cable that makes you tap the mic to determine which cap is to which cable. The cable ends are just labeled as 1 & 2.

Holy hell Moke, you got a sf24?

I love those mics..

RebelRebel · « **Reply #7 on:** March 28, 2006, 10:26:16 AM »

Quote from: m0k3 on March 28, 2006, 10:22:11 AM

Quote from: Teddy on March 28, 2006, 10:19:24 AM
Quote from: m0k3 on March 28, 2006, 09:43:49 AM
as a first time user, and not entirely familiar with the unit,.... The Royer sf24 stereo mic has a cable that makes you tap the mic to determine which cap is to which cable. The cable ends are just labeled as 1 & 2.

Holy hell Moke, you got a sf24? I love those mics..

No, I just used one a couple of times, that is owned by a recording studio / tiny concert venue.
Its a nice mic, but I prefer two independent mics.

AH! my misunderstanding. [/hijack]

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #8 on:** March 28, 2006, 10:34:22 AM »

the top capsule should be right.
as the one that moves, it will be the "side" channel in M-S, and that is always the right channel when you need to decode the signal.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #9 on:** March 28, 2006, 10:35:58 AM »

but what I also have yet to figure out is which pattern selection switch controls the top.

luckily, i've only run xy and blumlein so it didn't matter. but friday i'm doing some stage lip ninja taping for Ratdog, and wouldn't mind playing with MS

Bdifr78 · « **Reply #10 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:55:58 AM »

Last time I saw Jim Madry (Dr. FOB) he had just started making his own silver cable. He talked about making a cable for his USM69, I wonder if that would basically be the same cable that would be used with the LSD2.

coop · « **Reply #11 on:** March 28, 2006, 12:38:10 PM »

I just designated my bottom transducer "R" and top "L" but the cable does suck. The pinouts are kind of ghetto, at least the way they made the cable. I PM'd toddr about it and he was not interested in making one, as i have no desire to make cables anymore. Nick and i are searching for the right cable, and i am waiting to hear from SP about pinouts for a 2 cable "Y". After heavy use the stock cable will fail, no doubt about it.
Coop

dnsacks · « **Reply #12 on:** March 28, 2006, 01:33:16 PM »

nick:

I BELIEVE the back switch controls the top capsule and the front switch controlls the bottom. Fairly easy to determine by snapping your fingers behind the top capsule while switching patterns and listening on headphones.

Darrin

Todd R · « **Reply #13 on:** March 28, 2006, 02:58:25 PM »

I've had a few people now contact me about making LSD2 cables and I have found a supplier for the necessary 7pin connector. If I can get the pinout diagram (coop?) and people are interested, I can make custom LSD2 cables using silver-clad cable stock.

Bdifr78 · « **Reply #14 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:13:37 PM »

Quote from: Todd R on March 28, 2006, 02:58:25 PM

I've had a few people now contact me about making LSD2 cables and I have found a supplier for the necessary 7pin connector. If I can get the pinout diagram (coop?) and people are interested, I can make custom LSD2 cables using silver-clad cable stock.

People are obviously interested.

larrysellers · « **Reply #15 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:22:37 PM »

Quote from: Todd R on March 28, 2006, 02:58:25 PM

I've had a few people now contact me about making LSD2 cables and I have found a supplier for the necessary 7pin connector. If I can get the pinout diagram (coop?) and people are interested, I can make custom LSD2 cables using silver-clad cable stock.

Well, I guess we can call this thread a success. I most certainly want one.

Todd R · « **Reply #16 on:** March 28, 2006, 03:23:40 PM »

Quote from: Bdifr78 on March 28, 2006, 03:13:37 PM

Quote from: Todd R on March 28, 2006, 02:58:25 PM
I've had a few people now contact me about making LSD2 cables and I have found a supplier for the necessary 7pin connector. If I can get the pinout diagram (coop?) and people are interested, I can make custom LSD2 cables using silver-clad cable stock.

People are obviously interested.

Smartass.

Interested meaning pm me about making you a cable, make payment for the cable, send out your existing cable so I can make sure I'm making you what you want, etc, etc. It looks like a 15' silver-clad LSD2 cable with 2 silver/teflon cables in a single techflex sheath will be about $125 shipped, but I need find out what the pinout is first obviously.

Massive Dynamic · « **Reply #17 on:** March 28, 2006, 05:09:55 PM »

Quote from: dnsacks on March 28, 2006, 01:33:16 PM

nick:
I BELIEVE the back switch controls the top capsule and the front switch controlls the bottom. Fairly easy to determine by snapping your fingers behind the top capsule while switching patterns and listening on headphones.
Darrin

According to the Studio Projects website:

Quote

(The switches on the front of the body correspond to the lower fixed capsule, while the switches 180° opposite on the back of the mic control the rotating upper capsule).

I also called SP and they stated that the red xlr should connect to the top capsule. They also said that the Litz cables sold on their site do not include a 7pin - dual 3pin cable. Maybe if enough people inquired they would offer one?

Finally, am I correct in assuming that the null points in the fig-8 pattern are at 90° and 270°, parallel with the capsule?

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 28, 2006, 10:34:22 AM

the top capsule should be right.
as the one that moves, it will be the "side" channel in M-S, and that is always the right channel when you need to decode the signal.

And if I take Doug's advice, I could just swap the connections so that the mid is on top and the side is the lower capsule?

Dr.FOB · « **Reply #18 on:** March 28, 2006, 05:16:28 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 28, 2006, 10:34:22 AM

the top capsule should be right.
as the one that moves, it will be the "side" channel in M-S, and that is always the right channel when you need to decode the signal.

Correct!

The USM69i uses a 5 pin xlr.
I - The lower capsule Mid or Left / 2+ & 3
II - The upper capsule Side or Right / 4+ & 5
Shield & ground pin 1

I haven't made any silvers for the USM69i yet as the multiconductor I have is just too stiff.
My other construction projects are well under way though as I have my 20' split cables, my BNC to RCA, and my mini-xlr to RCA silvers all made and tested.

BobW · « **Reply #19 on:** March 28, 2006, 05:25:16 PM »

Quote from: m0k3 on March 28, 2006, 09:43:49 AM

as a first time user, and not entirely familiar with the unit,.... The Royer sf24 stereo mic has a cable that makes you tap the mic to determine which cap is to which cable. The cable ends are just labeled as 1 & 2.

Every one of my LSD2 recordings begins with a fingersnap R, then fingersnap L, just to be sure....
Be careful of the figure of eight setting.

RebelRebel · « **Reply #20 on:** March 28, 2006, 05:47:14 PM »

Dr Fob, is that usm69i controlled via a remote box or is it all contained on the mic itself??How about the LSD2?? I was freaking out when i first got the 426b , thought it needed a seperate PSU, but it gets all its power via a remote control box that draws from whatever preamp I use. Really cool. The LSD2 sounds great. Ive heard a lot of good things about it taboot.

Teddy

Quote from: Dr.FOB on March 28, 2006, 05:16:28 PM

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 28, 2006, 10:34:22 AM
the top capsule should be right.
as the one that moves, it will be the "side" channel in M-S, and that is always the right channel when you need to decode the signal.

Correct!

The USM69i uses a 5 pin xlr.
I - The lower capsule Mid or Left / 2+ & 3
II - The upper capsule Side or Right / 4+ & 5
Shield & ground pin 1

I haven't made any silvers for the USM69i yet as the multiconductor I have is just too stiff.
My other construction projects are well under way though as I have my 20' split cables, my BNC to RCA, and my mini-xlr to RCA silvers all made and tested.

Dr.FOB · « **Reply #21 on:** March 28, 2006, 06:32:55 PM »

Quote from: Teddy on March 28, 2006, 05:47:14 PM

Dr Fob, is that usm69i controlled via a remote box or is it all contained on the mic itself??How about the LSD2?? I was freaking out when i first got the 426b , thought it needed a seperate PSU, but it gets all its power via a remote control box that draws from whatever preamp I use. Really cool. The LSD2 sounds great. Ive heard a lot of good things about it taboot.

Teddy

The capsule bias voltages are internally generated by DC converters from the 48VDC phantom voltage and selected by the red and yellow dials on the front. There once were small red and yellow jewels on the capsule rings but they are long gone.

The reason you want to keep your side on top is so the proper capsule relationship is presented to your decoder. If you turn it the other way you will reverse right & left.
That said, I always mark my recordings for later verification....

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #22 on:** March 28, 2006, 06:42:02 PM »

Quote from: Dr.FOB on March 28, 2006, 05:16:28 PM

I haven't made any silvers for the USM69i yet as the multiconductor I have is just too stiff.

Is that the short piece of multi conductor you got from my roll?

Dr.FOB · « **Reply #23 on:** March 28, 2006, 06:56:34 PM »

Quote from: Lil' Kim Jong-Il on March 28, 2006, 06:42:02 PM

Quote from: Dr.FOB on March 28, 2006, 05:16:28 PM
I haven't made any silvers for the USM69i yet as the multiconductor I have is just too stiff.

Is that the short piece of multi conductor you got from my roll?

It's hard to tell from that piece. But the stock I have would tend to displace the mic in it's suspension mount.
I'm leaning in the direction that Todd described with several multiconductors in a single techflex sheath.

Lil Kim Jong-Il · « **Reply #24 on:** March 28, 2006, 08:11:31 PM »

Quote from: Dr.FOB on March 28, 2006, 06:56:34 PM

It's hard to tell from that piece. But the stock I have would tend to displace the mic in it's suspension mount.
I'm leaning in the direction that Todd described with several multiconductors in a single techflex sheath.

I finally unspooled enough of that 5-conductor cable to make a pair of 10ft speaker wires. It was a lot more flexible than I thought it would be based on the short pieces I was playing with.

bhtoque · « **Reply #25 on:** March 28, 2006, 11:40:37 PM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 28, 2006, 10:35:58 AM

but what I also have yet to figure out is which pattern selection switch controls the top.

luckily, i've only run xy and blumlein so it didn't matter. but friday i'm doing some stage lip ninja taping for Ratdog, and wouldn't mind playing with MS

Nick, top is left is back switches. I asked SP support prior to Marc making my cable and they could not tell me which was which so I had to figure it out.

I sorted it out in front of the stereo using the pad switches. The only part that really matters is top/back as you can point either capsule to the left and right and switch the xlr's too.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #26 on:** March 29, 2006, 07:21:23 AM »

you cant point either capsule though, the bottom is fixed. you can turn the mic in the shockmount, but that doesn't count.

glad we got that figured out.
So, my cable is either backwards, or my microphones pins are...as my red XLR is most definetely left and not right.

The pinout for the cable is pretty easy. I'll post it later on when I take it apart and look at it and snap some pics.
I'm just trying to find good cable that is not too thick. I like the thickness and flexibility of the stock cable. but the construction, as we know...blows goat.

One option for cable design (if possible) is to set somthing up like the way the Denecke PS2 outputs its XLR w/one jumped off of the other. though, I dont think that would work in this regard.

Another option is to run two seperate 3con cables through teflex. that will make the XLR end pretty and the DIN end a little "custom" as you need to combine the sheilding together from both to solder into pin7 of the DIN (I believe from memery that pins 1-3 are "right" and 4-6 are "left" w/7 being the ground).

as for cable, I have found some sweet ass OFHC silver clad single wire 28AWG that i'm probably going to get. I'll just make it by hand and run it through shielding and teflex. I have not looked for the 7pin DIN XLR yet, but Im sure that is standard issue and wont be too hard to find.

Bdifr78 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 29, 2006, 09:00:24 AM »

This thread rocks.

Massive Dynamic · « **Reply #28 on:** March 29, 2006, 10:34:51 AM »

Quote from: Nick's Picks on March 29, 2006, 07:21:23 AM

So, my cable is either backwards, or my microphones pins are...as my red XLR is most definetely left and not right.

I double checked my cable last night, and it is also the reverse (black XLR=top) of what SP says it should be. Maybe poor QC on this run of cables?

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #29 on:** March 29, 2006, 05:32:39 PM »

hence the $500 price

bhtoque · « **Reply #30 on:** March 30, 2006, 01:59:47 AM »

How does turning the mic in the mount not count Nick?

Since the top rotates enough each way, having the bottom capsule face right or left when you stick it in the mount easily allows you to make either capsule either side.

The cable marc made for me is sweet. Too bad he's MIA. I'm fairly sure it's the same silver clad stock as Todd is using, damn similar if not.

JAson

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #31 on:** March 30, 2006, 07:13:03 AM »

it doesn't count because....
the top capsule, the one that rotates, is supposed to be the right channel unless you run wider than 90deg (more below)
sure you can rotate the mic when you are running XY and make the bottom the right.

but...
notice that the rotation of the top capsule goes perfectly 45deg in one direction, and that there are dots on the mic to help you line it up so that you can twist the mic in the mount and be perfectly on center. using it like that the top is always the right channel.
if you want to run wider than 90 deg, then you have to twist it in the other direction which will reverse the channels.
Mostly though, I say the top is supposed to be the right channel because that is the one that rotates for mid side recording, and the side channel is always the right channel.

rowjimmy · « **Reply #32 on:** April 04, 2006, 08:04:20 PM »

+t all around. This IS a great thread. I've been hot for an lsd2 for some time (just not in a mic-buying place...yet

) and this is definatly a good chunk of info to have going in.

Also, Jim, that USM69i rules. I loved the Patriot Center Phil set you ran with it.

Bdifr78 · « **Reply #33 on:** May 10, 2006, 11:45:39 PM »

So has ToodR started making this cables yet?

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #34 on:** May 11, 2006, 08:18:50 AM »

i have yet been able to find an acceptable 6 conductor cable that I like....
if anyone has any leads there, lmk. i'll gladly pick some up and start making these cable

§†∑∫åµÞ≥¥ · « **Reply #35 on:** May 11, 2006, 11:10:31 AM »

Quote from: Bdifr78 on May 10, 2006, 11:45:39 PM

So has ToodR started making this cables yet?

I've had some discussions with ToddR about making one.... granted I don't have the mic yet and won't until summer... but he seemed open to trying it out, but requested a SP cable so he could examine the 5-pin plug.

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #36 on:** May 11, 2006, 05:37:59 PM »

i've got it figured out already. the DIN plug shouldn't be hard to locate either. nothing too custom about that.
I can make the cable out of individual strands, but would rather find something that is multi-conductor so that I can have a rubber cable coating.

I also want to experiment w/different types of copper and silver plated copper w/the LSD so that I see if anything really makes a difference w/its sound.

oniontaper · « **Reply #37 on:** June 10, 2006, 12:46:08 AM »

any updates?

I will be buying one of these in the next few weeks, and would like a better cable if it's as bad as everyone says.

hows the project coming along?

Nick's Picks · « **Reply #38 on:** June 11, 2006, 10:24:29 AM »

still cant find the cable I like.
i'm going to try making a real short one w/some super nice wire I have. I just picked up the sheilding...now I need to mark (for ID) and braid 6 wires, shield it, techflex it, and solder it all up...i'll report back.

is that DIN plug a standard 7pin from neutrik...? anyone?

Church-Audio · « **Reply #39 on:** June 11, 2006, 10:43:25 AM »

On the Royer 1= top ribbon 2= bottom ribbon. Although most of the Royer sf-12 mics I have used are marked upper and lower.

Quote from: Moke on March 28, 2006, 09:43:49 AM

as a first time user, and not entirely familiar with the unit,.... The Royer sf24 stereo mic has a cable that makes you tap the mic to determine which cap is to which cable. The cable ends are just labeled as 1 & 2.

coop · « **Reply #40 on:** June 12, 2006, 12:53:55 PM »

The 7 pin plug is a Neutrik item, i think shit, er, Switchcraft makes them too. Available from a number of vendors, i got one from Full Compass.
Coop

Author Topic: LSD cable...sucks (Read 9938 times)

RebelRebel

RebelRebel

BobW

RebelRebel

oniontaper