Topic: what's teh best video camcorder I can buy for $850?

[BayTaynt3d]

Got this from the specs of your cam:

Audio: DV/DVCAM Rec.: 48kHz/16 bit, 32kHz/12 bit. HDV Rec.: MPEG-1 Audio Layer II

Looks like it's 16-bit when recording in DV, but not when you record in HDV, which is EXACTLY what I expected. But maybe I'm missing something? I'm telling you right now, I'm amazed at the number of people that don't know that, even people that OWN these cams... But feel free to prove me wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. I think I've read that it's 384Kbps or something like that.

[hyperplane]

Not arguing for the sake of arguing here, but aren't HDV cameras only recording audio in MPEG-2 (or maybe AC3, i.e. lossy) format? Even though it's 16/48, it's still an MPEG audio source you're left with, correct? It might still sound good, but it is technically lossy if it's MPEG-2 or AC3 audio.

Whereas a DV cam can record in 16/48 LPCM (lossless) format.

And NO, I'm NOT saying any HDV camera is a bad choice or anything of the sort. I've seen some beautiful, beautiful footage shot with HDV cameras. I'm just pointing out technical facts inherent with various camera formats.

[BayTaynt3d]

Not arguing for the sake of arguing here, but aren't HDV cameras only recording audio in MPEG-2 (or maybe AC3, i.e. lossy) format? Even though it's 16/48, it's still an MPEG audio source you're left with, correct? It might still sound good, but it is technically lossy if it's MPEG-2 or AC3 audio.

Whereas a DV cam can record in 16/48 LPCM (lossless) format.

And NO, I'm NOT saying any HDV camera is a bad choice or anything of the sort. I've seen some beautiful, beautiful footage shot with HDV cameras. I'm just pointing out technical facts inherent with various camera formats.

Yes. This is what I've been saying all along, I think it's something like 384 Kbps lossy (not 16-bit at all). And I agree, I'm not saying it's a bad choice for anyone, the cam the TSer has above is pretty freakin' sweet for sure, no doubt. I think that its awesome that it does DVCAM too, but yeah, that's "only" standard def -- but it's a damn good standard def, and it handles true 16/48 to boot. My main point has been that considering the lengths people at TS go to for 24/96 sometimes, going lossy is something you want to at least be doing ON PURPOSE. For me personally, I don't think it would even matter really, cause I'd always record the audio to a seperate recorder anyway...

[guitard]

Somewhat off-subject but still related...

There is a DVD at The Traders Den that was recorded with a DVD-RAM disk cam, and it was recorded with LPCM audio.  The audio on it is fantastic.

http://www.thetradersden.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24456&highlight=bromberg

Angel Band & The David Bromberg Quartet
BMW Motorcycle Owners of America International Rally
Champlain Valley Exposition
Essex Junction, Vermont, USA
July 22, 2006

NTSC DVD w/LPCM Audio