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Author Topic: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions  (Read 8285 times)

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Offline MarkE

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #15 on: December 10, 2006, 10:36:32 PM »
I have had my best results with my 414's running them blumlein pattern. I like to tape smaller clubs 20 to 30 feet from the stage. When I run them card x/y they sound good, but same club ran blumlein figure 8 these recordings have much nicer imaging. A little more chowd chatting becase of the pattern, but definatly better imaging and overall ambience.. Try the blumlein pattern . You wont be dissapointed.
Mark E
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2006, 07:58:28 AM »
Doug is opinionated...strongly.
as we know, and he despises LD recordings done in any way other than coincident technique.  "anything else just doesn't sound right to me".
So, that is where his general statement comes from...his own ears.

that said, it is standard in the world of LD recording that they are run coincident.  why...exactly, i'm not sure.  I believe it has to do w/the way LDs off axis perform, and that whatever problems arise from this are not present with coincident techniques.

I ran my 414b ULS's every which way you could imagine.  All of my favorites were coincident recordings...and mostly all of them blumlein.   I made some recordings that were very nice with NC techniques.., one particular ORTF recording in a small room comes to mind as being exceptionally juicy.

Still...I prefer the coincident methods.  Look at all the stereo mics in production today.  All of them are coincident LD (except the cheapies from AT and Rhodes..and mics that are more video orientated like the beyer and and the vp88..etc).  Sure...stereo "kits" from schoepps are not this way..but thats a little different as, to me, none of them are a true stereo mic.

so...in short, this discussion is why the LSD2 kicks so much ass.  I wouldn't hesitate to get one of those over a pair of 414s.  While the AKGs are better mics overall, and certainly more studio friendly and versitile, the LSD makes more consistent "good" recordings when in our hands.
coincident is where its at, and it makes sense when you think of it. 

sound locations are pinpoint.  someone plays a guitar in front of you, the sound comes from the source.
so, why would you record w/the diaphragms wayyyyy off axis, where they dont' perform as well, so that you get this sense of space that your brain has to "work on" to mix it and approximate the locations of the sounds as you perceive them.
Coincident recording captures everything in front, well within the sphere of those cardioid lobes.  Timing cues are captured perfectly..the brain has no work to do when listening to it.  Its presented just as it happened.

For some reason...those NC techniques work well with small diaphragm mics.  I think it has to do with off axis response being much better than w/the LD type mics.  Not so much with the LD mics though.

BUT....i'm a blabbering idiot..so take that to the bank as thats the only provable thing I've sputtered here.

Offline branas

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #17 on: December 11, 2006, 05:37:52 PM »
Thank you all very much. I ran X/Y the other night, the recording came out very well, other than the first set where I blew the levels a bit. I will definitely be trying several patterns over next weekend. Sounds like Blumlein will be high on the list. I also want to try M/S. Thanks again, this place rocks.
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Offline RobertNC

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2006, 07:53:55 PM »
I'm so confused now.   :-\
SD:  Microtech Gefell M210 > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
LD:                   ADK A51 TL > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
Guns:               DPA 4017    > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2006, 09:04:22 PM »
I'm so confused now.   :-\

about what?
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
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Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

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Offline RobertNC

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2006, 09:21:41 PM »
I'm so confused now.   :-\

about what?

Yin or Yang. Viagra or Levitra.  DINa or XY.

You name it, I'm confused about it.
SD:  Microtech Gefell M210 > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
LD:                   ADK A51 TL > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
Guns:               DPA 4017    > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722

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Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #21 on: December 12, 2006, 09:38:07 PM »
I'm so confused now.   :-\

about what?

Yin or Yang. Viagra or Levitra.  DINa or XY.

You name it, I'm confused about it.

ask away then ;D
Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline rowjimmytour

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #22 on: December 12, 2006, 10:45:26 PM »
I'm so confused now.   :-\

about what?

Yin or Yang. Viagra or Levitra.  DINa or XY.

You name it, I'm confused about it.
I have tried all but XY w/ my Tl's. I think I mgiht try it next time out but I am normally not a fan of XY aleast when I had SD's. Any input w/ TL's XY?
Peace
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Offline Kyle

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #23 on: December 12, 2006, 11:27:30 PM »
I'm so confused now.   :-\

about what?

Yin or Yang. Viagra or Levitra.  DINa or XY.

You name it, I'm confused about it.

ya don't need THAT shit - your local neighborhood hottie should due just fine
On a related topic, a guy in Australia a few years ago broke in a lab where the were working on a male 'enhancement' med. He turned himself in after his erection hit day 7 :o

ouch.
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Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2006, 07:52:23 AM »
for about 3 years (and sometimes still), I will yank my mikes down and change the stereo config between sets.  Doing this has taught me what I like and when I like it (depending on room and location).
experiment.  who cares if the sets sound different in the final product.  well,,, I suppose some people do.  but i'm one of those guys who (99%) tapes for myself only, so I dont care what I fudge up.

Offline Shawn

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2006, 08:30:47 AM »
interesting. I do almost exclusively near-coincident techniques (mostly DIN) with my TLs. I guess I need to try x-y and blumlein more.

Offline rowjimmytour

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2006, 01:13:30 PM »
interesting. I do almost exclusively near-coincident techniques (mostly DIN) with my TLs. I guess I need to try x-y and blumlein more.
I must say I like DIN best so far and J-Disc w/ my Tl's.
Peace
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Offline (((KB)))

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2006, 05:07:25 PM »
... I have everything I need to run vertical X/Y, haven't tried seeing if everything can be put together for horizontal X/Y yet....
I've been running c3000b's XY horiz. for about 6 months or so now... I just have a little metal spacer to raise one mic above the other, so I would assume you could run the 414's the same way. Don't really care for virtical XY since it seems to make my stand lean too much forward for my liking. I change the angle a bit depending how close I am, but overall I like the less ambient sound that XY seems to give me with the c3000b's. Here's a recent photo:
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=75600.0

-Kevin
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Offline beanstalk

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2006, 09:38:39 PM »
I use clamps which works great. Run blumlein with the 414's. You'll love it.  8)

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Offline RobertNC

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Re: c414 / LD Owners - Configuration Questions / Opinions
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2006, 10:02:38 PM »
I've set XY up with the TLs in the living room.  I would definitely advise running vertical if you are usng the "supermount" style shocks.  A lot of strain on the bands if you try to position those mounts in a horizontal config.
SD:  Microtech Gefell M210 > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
LD:                   ADK A51 TL > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722
Guns:               DPA 4017    > Silver Clad XLRs > SD722

****************************************************************

 

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