Topic: Mini-Disc with TEETH

[thoman8r]

I think the only thing that's going on is they're gearing up to compete with hard drive based units like the iPod, Archos, Jukeboxes, iRiver etc.

I agree that's what they're trying to do, but I don't really see consumers finding this a viable alternative.  A $200 base price for a 1 gig player (since it comes with a disk already) is way too high.  If you think about it logically, you'd need to be 9 more disks at 7 bucks a popl to have the same storage capacity as the 10 gig ipod.  That's $263 compared to the much nicer $299 iPod.  Plus it's more expensive than the Dell 10 gig ($249) and a few of the other ones you mention.  Maybe it's just me but I don't see anybody - either the general public or tapers - buying these things.

Dave

[DaryanLenz]

I certainly respect what you are saying, but how is this a viable alternative to a jb3?  About the same number of recording hours, but without removeable media, and the biggest kicker, no atrac.  I don't care what they say about how good it will sound, compression is compression and certainly degrades signal performance and fidelity.  I wonder why they don't just come up with a flac encoding technology or something, and ditch the atrac stuff all together.  

D

[mattb]

Unless these can indeed record to wav (and I saw no indication in the article that they could), I don't see these as anything great.[/quite]

From minidisc.org:

Common to Hi-MD recorders:
Records to Hi-MD (1GB) blanks and normal MD blanks reformatted to 300MB.
Provides PC uploading of mic-recorded audio.
Functions as USB data drive (FAT format filesystem).
Linear PCM and ATRAC3plus recording at 132, 105, 66, 64, or 48kbps.
Included software: SonicStage 2.0 and SimpleBurner

So that makes it look like you can record to uncompressed wav. Pretty cool IMO. As far as price is concerned it's pretty spendy to start but like everything else it will get cheaper. They are also reporting that it will support USB uploading of mic recorded material. What I don't know is will it hold you to using the (most likely crappy) Sony mic input, or can you also make line-in recordings to wav and upload those too.
I see some potential here. It might be a fantastic stealth setup, and their battery technology is really pretty amazing when you comapre it to DAT. You get SLA-like performance without hauling that brick around.
I wouldn't write it off just yet. I kind of like MD for a playback medium because it's so nice and small, cheap, and gets great battery life. I am glad I don't use it to record anymore!

Matt

[mattb]

Whoops - didn't to close that quote. Quote/quite, potato potahtoh...

[dklein]

ahhh yes, but Sony has a long history of throwing good money after bad and trying to make their proprietary format into the format

hmm...let's see...off the top of my head:

dead - Beta, Digital Compact Cassette
dying - Digital 8, MicroMV (both video formats)
will die - SACD, MD

I'm sure there are others.  Not to say that Sony isn't a great innovator - they made some fantastic contributions - PCM, CD, s/pdif are most relevant to this group.  

I think the CD format gave them a taste for what happens when YOU come up with the adopted format.  Royalties like crazy.  It's just that they don't know when to give up!

[F.O.Bean]

or think about us and make a hd recorder

fuckin waste of $$ in my eyes

[F.O.Bean]

ahhh yes, but Sony has a long history of throwing good money after bad and trying to make their proprietary format into the format

hmm...let's see...off the top of my head:

dead - Beta, Digital Compact Cassette
dying - Digital 8, MicroMV (both video formats)
will die - SACD, MD

I'm sure there are others.  Not to say that Sony isn't a great innovator - they made some fantastic contributions - PCM, CD, s/pdif are most relevant to this group.  

I think the CD format gave them a taste for what happens when YOU come up with the adopted format.  Royalties like crazy.  It's just that they don't know when to give up!

well put

[thoman8r]

Unless these can indeed record to wav (and I saw no indication in the article that they could), I don't see these as anything great.[/quite]

From minidisc.org:

Common to Hi-MD recorders:
Records to Hi-MD (1GB) blanks and normal MD blanks reformatted to 300MB.
Provides PC uploading of mic-recorded audio.
Functions as USB data drive (FAT format filesystem).
Linear PCM and ATRAC3plus recording at 132, 105, 66, 64, or 48kbps.
Included software: SonicStage 2.0 and SimpleBurner

So that makes it look like you can record to uncompressed wav. Pretty cool IMO. As far as price is concerned it's pretty spendy to start but like everything else it will get cheaper. They are also reporting that it will support USB uploading of mic recorded material. What I don't know is will it hold you to using the (most likely crappy) Sony mic input, or can you also make line-in recordings to wav and upload those too.
I see some potential here. It might be a fantastic stealth setup, and their battery technology is really pretty amazing when you comapre it to DAT. You get SLA-like performance without hauling that brick around.
I wouldn't write it off just yet. I kind of like MD for a playback medium because it's so nice and small, cheap, and gets great battery life. I am glad I don't use it to record anymore!

Matt

Ah, good info, +T for hunting it down.  I'm still not sold on it though, a 1 gig disc size means for most shows at least 1 or 2 tape changes still.  I would hope in additional to a line-in their would be an optical-in as well so you could use an outboard pre/adc

[Cooker]

ahhh yes, but Sony has a long history of throwing good money after bad and trying to make their proprietary format into the format

hmm...let's see...off the top of my head:

dead - Beta, Digital Compact Cassette
dying - Digital 8, MicroMV (both video formats)
will die - SACD, MD

I'm sure there are others.  Not to say that Sony isn't a great innovator - they made some fantastic contributions - PCM, CD, s/pdif are most relevant to this group.  

I think the CD format gave them a taste for what happens when YOU come up with the adopted format.  Royalties like crazy.  It's just that they don't know when to give up!

i guess we can add those wacky 3" CD-Rs, Memory Stick, and those new DD CD-Rs to those lists too. But that's always been Sony's MO - jack up prices on TVs so they can balance out the costs of losing the format wars....

[Scuba Jeremy]

As a strong backer of MD, I see this as a step in a good direction. It still employes ATRAC3 (which I think is one of the worst versions of ATRAC, btw), but there's one piece of gold in that entire article:

>> For example, with the new upload function musicians or note-taking students can use the mic-in feature on several of the models to make a self-recording on the device and transfer the content back to the PC. <<

Bingo. We got it fellas - NetMD UPLOAD through the USB!! No more having to buy a seperate home deck and digi soundcard. The larger capacity disc is nice, but the USB upload is the greatest innovation for MD yet.

I'd say that competing with other recording HD or CF based portables makes sense on one level - they're portable. But this talk about total number of songs you can fit on one disc makes little sense to the MD user - when you run out, you can just pop in another disc. Bam, problem solved. And these discs are great, you can't scratch them, they're much smaller than CDRs, and even if you use a little extra compression, they sound pretty good.

Now the only problem here is that for some reason, Sony has always spearheaded the MD product, and then Sharp comes along and perfects it. The only Sony product that I enjoy listening to my MDs on is my in-dash Sony MDX800REC player/recorder. And I never use the MDLP modes for anything I listen to.

Will I buy into this? Probably not. My entire setup is based on the older MD standard, before ATRAC3, so I'm not inclined to buy a portable that will record discs that my home and car decks won't play. But for the newbie, I think this is a fantastic device, and should strongly be considered alongside the JB3 or IRIVER.

On a side note, are these discs going to be the technology that Sony built it's Universal Media Disc (UMD) for the Playstation Portable (PSP)?

[Scuba Jeremy]

 I would hope in additional to a line-in their would be an optical-in as well so you could use an outboard pre/adc

Pretty sure most (if not all) Sony portables have had line/optical in since very early on, I just hope it's not removed in this device.

[Cooker]

Universal Media Disc (UMD) for the Playstation Portable (PSP)?

sounds like 2 more proprietary duds!!!  I think using DVD (and CD) based technology for the existing playstations was one of the smartest moves sony has made to date.

[Scuba Jeremy]

Yeah, but could you imagine trying to play CDs or DVDs on a device the size of a cell phone? A new format needs to be used, or at least improve an old format (like MD....) to fit your needs.

And will the Playstation Portable be a dud? It's not even out yet, but I think it should do better than the most recent high end portable systems. At least with the PSP, you won't have to remove the systems battery to swap games. Alas, nothing will ever top the Sega Nomad.

[thoman8r]

Will I buy into this? Probably not. My entire setup is based on the older MD standard, before ATRAC3, so I'm not inclined to buy a portable that will record discs that my home and car decks won't play. But for the newbie, I think this is a fantastic device, and should strongly be considered alongside the JB3 or IRIVER.

Why would somebody buy this over the jb3 when they are at similar price points?

On a side note, are these discs going to be the technology that Sony built it's Universal Media Disc (UMD) for the Playstation Portable (PSP)?

No, the UMD will be a 1.8 GB optical disc.  You can check out the specs for the PSP at the link below.

http://www.pspinsider.com/hardware/0004.shtml

[Scuba Jeremy]

Much smaller.