Topic: Oktava mc012 + Denecke PS2

[tchoub]

Hi,
 I have decided to buy a pair of Oktava mc012 after hearing nice recordings made with those mics (especially one of a band called Mogwaï with this rig :  Oktava MC 012 (hyper-cardioid) > Denecke PS-2 > Marantz PMD670)

 From what I have read, the Oktava mc012 are nice mics ... but I'm still a newbie at taping so I need some help !

   
        - Will I have to buy a matched pair of mc012 ? Is the difference between 2 random cm012 really important ?  
        - Would you recommended getting the 3 capsules version or the single capsule version ?
        - I would like to make allowed recordings with a stand but also stealth recordings. Can the cm012 be used in "stealth mode" ? Any advice on this point ?
       - What 48V phantom powering system would you recommend ?
The Denecke PS-2 seems to have XLR outs. The sound professionals website offers a modified version with a minijack output. Has anyone tried this one ?
I would prefer having a minijack output in order to connect it directly to my MD or my D8.
      - What kind of cables will I need to connect the different parts ? (Oktava's > PS2 > MD or D8)

I'm sorry if some of those questions sound dumb but I'm slowly getting into taping ...
I hope some of you will help me !

Thanks !
 

[jpschust]

ok a lot of different things on this

Will I have to buy a matched pair of mc012 ? Is the difference between 2 random cm012 really important ?  

Well really, no.  The thing is, however if you buy a matched pair you are garunteed that they won't be as far off in db.  So when you run your ps-2 with an unmatched pair you might have to run one in a touch hotter than the other so that you can be getting equal levels from each mic.

Would you recommended getting the 3 capsules version or the single capsule version ?

I say get the 3 cap version.  I am assuming this is your first rig and having all 3 caps will give you some experience in different situations.  It's a bit more expensive, but a nice feature.  Not absolutely neccesary though.

- I would like to make allowed recordings with a stand but also stealth recordings. Can the cm012 be used in "stealth mode" ? Any advice on this point ?

If you are really crafty, yes, however not the smallest stealth mic.

- What 48V phantom powering system would you recommend ?

This is going to depend on how much you want to spend.  The BPS-1's should be in your price range though.  Though someone has a neumann phantom supply on here for like 200, a great unit.

The Denecke PS-2 seems to have XLR outs. The sound professionals website offers a modified version with a minijack output. Has anyone tried this one ?
I would prefer having a minijack output in order to connect it directly to my MD or my D8.

Check the price on tihs vs having a cable made or making your own to have the xlr pair to terminate in a 1/8" cable.  I bet having the cable done is cheaper.

- What kind of cables will I need to connect the different parts ? (Oktava's > PS2 > MD or D8)

you will need an XLR Male > Female for each mic (so 2).  I reccomend either some canare starquad cables or some BLUE cables (you can get those from your local guitar center).

Then the cable I mentioned above. 2 xlr> 1/8" stereo plug.

And then that's it!  

some additional things you will want to get:

better windscreens for the oktavas.  the ones that come with them are just poorly made

some shockmounts for those mics + a tbar.  I reccomend the Audio Technica mounts and there are any number of T bars you can use.

a stand- go for a bogen/manfrotto stand.  these are light, they work really well and some have very small footprints

duct tape- for taping your stand down

micro flashlight- so you can see your rig in the dark

a dual rca > 1/8" cables (so you can soundboard patch if you want to)

a dual 1/4" > 1/8" cable, same as the rca one.

some good rechargable batts for both the ps-2 and the dat/md.  You will fly through batteries if you use them a lot.

Hope that helps!

Jonny

[super-phat-al]

dont worry about being a newbie, newbies are extrememly welcome here.

answers:
1:  some people would say that there isn't a difference and some people would say there.  When you buy them try to get a matched pair.  Ask if they have them and if they dont then go through the boxes and find two that look right and feel right.  Plug in some XLRs and make sure they both have a snug fit etc.  I believe on the board now there is some modded oktavas for sale.  I strongly suggest you look into those.

2:  Caps for these mics are expensive.  I would stick to the card caps that come with the mics first, then go from there.  $64 per cap i believe.  Thats $128 for a pair of caps.  However soon i think im gonna buy some hyper caps and this summer buy some omnis for outdoors.

3:  yes they can be used for stealth.  Talk to brian skilinder about this.  Look in the rig pics section for his stealth rig with the oktavas.  Its very nice.

4:  The PS-2 that you mention is your phantom power right there.  Thats a nice little box, that i believe cpclark on this board is trying to sell.  It requires a 9v battery and will be great for powering those oktavas.

5:  I have not tried the minijack out cause ive never used a PS-2, but if you're looking to run this into a D-8 or MD you would want this option.  That way you could run a standard 1/8"th cable from the PS-2>MD or D-8.  

6:  you will need two XLR cables to run from the mics>PS-2.  Then you will need a stereo 1/8th" cable to run from PS-2>D-8 or MD.

i recommend the D-8 over the MD.  I taped with an MD for 4 months and was unhappy with my tapes.  changed over to the D-8 and my tapes started rawking.  The problem not only lies in the compression of the MD, but the analog>digital conversion in the minidisc is no where close to the D-7, or D-8.  If you want to lay down the extra bucks there is a refurbished sony D-100 for sale for 500 in the retail section.

welcome to taping, its phun

[caymanreview]

Will I have to buy a matched pair of mc012 ? Is the difference between 2 random cm012 really important ?  

there are alot of people around who are running both matched and unlatched octavas here. there could be a huge difference in them if there not matched, but there might not be as well. you dont have to have a matched pair

- Would you recommended getting the 3 capsules version or the single capsule version ?

depends on where you tape and what you tape, you might need all 3, you might not

I would like to make allowed recordings with a stand but also stealth recordings. Can the cm012 be used in "stealth mode" ? Any advice on this point ?

dig around in the rig pictures section or do a search on this, someone here posted some pics of thier octavas in a hat for stealth purposes


- What 48V phantom powering system would you recommend ?
The Denecke PS-2 seems to have XLR outs. The sound professionals website offers a modified version with a minijack output. Has anyone tried this one ?
I would prefer having a minijack output in order to connect it directly to my MD or my D8.

for starting out, and even some veteran tapers, they will tell you that you cant go wrong with a ps2. great little unit. hands down. i have never ran one with the minijack output, but you have to consider some options before you buy that one. if you think it will suit you better, than buy it.

- What kind of cables will I need to connect the different parts ? (Oktava's > PS2 > MD or D8)

microphone cables to go from the octavas > ps2. and either a dual xlr > 1/8" cable to go from a ps2 with xlr or if you buy the one with the minijack output, you would just need a 1/8" stereo > 1/8" stereo cable. the dual xlr > 1/8" cables can be had custom made at kindkables.com or you can buy a short one made by hose on micsupply.com

hope this helps!

[caymanreview]

wow. 2 other respones in the amount of tiem it took me to write mine!!!

+T guys

[tchoub]

ok thanks a lot for your answers.  
I managed to see some pics of the Oktava mc012 in stealth mode. Nice !

But I have two more questions :
   - what 48v powering system could I use for the mics in the 100-200$ price range ? (other than the Denecke PS2)
   - jpschust : when you say "So when you run your ps-2 with an unmatched pair you might have to run one in a touch hotter than the other so that you can be getting equal levels from each mic."
Do you mean that, with the PS2, one can "send" different voltage to the 2 mics ? The mic with the weaker response having the hotter signal ?

Thanks again !

[Scuba Jeremy]

It just means that one of your MC012s might be a touch more sensitive than the other one. I got my first (and only) set from Guitar Center, but I told the guy in the Pro Audio section what I was using them for, and we hand matched a set that I'm very happy with, considering the price. Pretty good mic, IMHO. When you get a pair matched, it means that the two mics are pretty much identical, or if they are different at all, the difference can only be detected by a machine. Your ears will never tell you otherwise.

The PS2 (great box!) will send the same power to both mics, regardless of their individual sensitivities. So if one mic is a bit more touchy, it will sound louder on the playback. Might look something like this all the time:

L -------------
R ----------

You want all things to be equal, makes for better recordings. That, or you'll have to spend some time in post playing with the levels to make them a little more stable.

A note on the modified output for that PS2. I'd reccomend getting line transformers rather than having it modded. While Sound Professionals are really good at what they do, it's probably a good idea to have different adapters on hand for that ever popular "just in case". I ran the PS2 for about a year before I got a UA5, and I still keep that PS2 around for times when I want to keep a lower profile. Haven't tried stealthing with my MC012s, but that might be fun... Anyway, having line transformers will let you be able to adapt cables down from just about anything to 1/8 for your MD or DAT. This is great for patching soundboards, different mics, etc. I heard that Guitar Center sells some kind of gig box in their Pro Audio section with many different adapters and plugs for a reasonable price, check into that. It should be able to patch anything to anything, so I hear.

[Brian Skalinder]

I'd reccomend getting line transformers rather than having it modded. While Sound Professionals are really good at what they do, it's probably a good idea to have different adapters on hand for that ever popular "just in case".

Agreed!  I still have my PS-2 (actually sold it then re-acquired one) and use it every so often.  I also have loads of different adapters that often come in handy.

[Scuba Jeremy]

Hell yeah. The only time I didn't have the right cable for the job was when my dumb ass forgot the right cable in the car. D'oh!

[Cooker]

you will need line transformers to go MC012 > PS-2 > DAT.

i had the miniplug version of the PS-2 and it did not work for my purpose. i would have had to go PS-2 > Miniplug - XLR adapter > Line Transformers (which are XLR in and out) > XLR - Miniplug adapter > M1

get the XLR version of the PS-2, get a couple hosa MIT-176 Line Transformers, and get a Hosa XLR > Miniplug adapter and you should be fine.

FWIW, i am much happier with Oktavas > Beyer MV-100 > M1 than i am with the few tapes i ran that were Oktava > PS-2 > Line Transformers > SBM-1 > D100. The Beyer complements the MK012s well - and the only drawbacks are a little larger footprint, and that it uses 2 9V batteries instead of one. the difference in price over the PS-2 is about $100, make that $60 if you are getting line transformers too