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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: boombox on March 07, 2014, 06:46:09 PM
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On Thursday night, I used my new Church Audio gear for the first time. Rig is CA14 cards > CA9200 (just switched on as no extra input needed as it was loud) > Edirol HR-09). Was taping about 10' from the stack and was pretty pleased with the results. However, one thing concerns me:
I was taping in stealth mode and due to a roving security guard, who may or not have busted me if seen, when I needed to make a quick level adjustment on the fly, I just turned down output on the preamp, rather than pulling out my recorder. Anyone else done this who could comment on results? Might be a daft newbie question, but which would give a better recording and crucially, by turning down the output, is this going to have an adverse impact on my recordings?
Any swiftish advice gratefully received as I am taping again on Monday.
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The Edirol/Roland HR-09 is similar to other inexpensive recorders in that it has a crappy preamp, which is why you bought the Church Audio preamp in the first place. You want the recorder in "line" mode, bypassing the internal preamp. In the case, plug the preamp output into the Edirol line jack, then adjust the recorder levels with the Church preamp.
Chris
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Yes, this is how I've done it. Run the Edirol at unity, line in and deal with the levels on the Church Audio preamp. never a problem with the results.
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I was taping in stealth mode and due to a roving security guard, who may or not have busted me if seen, when I needed to make a quick level adjustment on the fly, I just turned down output on the preamp, rather than pulling out my recorder.
That's what you're supposed to do. No issues as long as the recorder is set to the approximate Unity Gain (38-40 on the HR). If you set the recorder way below unity gain, you might have to bring up the levels on the CA9200 so much to get good levels on the recorder that the CA9200 itself could clip (and if you're not monitoring with headphones you'd never know it until you listen to the recording).
Even if there's no audible difference when you it this way, as you said changing the levels with the CA9200 is quicker & more convenient. Also if your recorder records some brief static like noises while changing the levels (and many do) you can avoid this by changing the levels with the CA9200.
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I have accidentally moved my m10s gain to 10(max) and didn't notice it til AFTER the show, which meant I ran levels LOW on the preamp, and it turned out just as good as running the m10 at unity(4-6)! But that's with an m10 not an r9
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Thanks for the advice guys. Pretty much backed up what I thought.
I did use the mics again just over a week ago in Birmingham for Camel. Was not directly in front of the stack and found even just above Unity Gain was insufficient - very quiet PA. I cranked it up full on the preamp, but was still barely registering levels and had to boost the recorder level towards 60, I believe it was. Half a dozen static clicks as I did it, but I was very pleased with the recording overall. Maybe I could have set the preamp at +10db, but it might have been too much. Am planning on using my CA11 omnis tomorrow for an acoustic gig, so will use it as aproper preamp then. Here's hoping they are as good as my CA14s, which have really impressed me so far.
BTW, does anyone know roughly how many hours you get out of the battery on a CA9200? I know it depends how much gain you use, but a ball park figure???
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I think Chris said it was a little over 50 but it may be even more for battery life that is
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Thanks, Phil Zone.
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Thanks, Phil Zone.
What they said :) Yes you pretty much all the time want to go with the line input. Unless you are recording something acoustic and you can in these cases go mic in but you have to be very careful.
Chris
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Hi! So in the case of a Zoom H4n, if I use the mic in jack I will be using the internal zoom pre-amp instead of the CA9200? In this case, should I use one of the bottom, line 1 or line 2 polyvalent jacks (for XLR4 and others)?
The battery is supposed to last anything around 50hrs?
And lastly, last time I used mine, I noticed a huge difference in left and right recording levels (using CA11 mics, through the pre-amp through the mic in from the zoom). The other times I did it, the levels were equal for left and right. Any troubleshooting I should think about? Thanks in advance...
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Guys w/ 9200 where are you typically setting your gain & volume on the preamp just about "cranked"?
I have accidentally moved my m10s gain to 10(max) and didn't notice it til AFTER the show, which meant I ran levels LOW on the preamp, and it turned out just as good as running the m10 at unity(4-6)! But that's with an m10 not an r9
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volume on the pre all the way. gain 0-15 for "loud" stuff and higher (30) for quite/acoustic stuff. first time out with it I ran onstage omni's and levels where very low on the m10. I then cranked the pre all the way and while the levels looked good I got brick walling.
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most show i have the gain at 10 or 15db and the volume knob close to maxed out. my sony m10 iusually set at 4. levels usually peak between -12 to -6
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most show i have the gain at 10 or 15db and the volume knob close to maxed out. my sony m10 iusually set at 4. levels usually peak between -12 to -6
:medal to the above ^, this is the insight I am looking for.......do you all consider Widespread Panic & Umphreys "loud?"
Silly m10 question LFC on or off & what mic sensitivity setting?
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M10 lcf is too steep,200hz @24db per octave,leave that off and sensitivity always Low.
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Thank you!
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and be sure to go into the line in on the m10 coming out of the 9200 not the mic in
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don't you want to use as much gain first before adding 'volume'? Wouldn't that add noise?
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don't you want to use as much gain first before adding 'volume'? Wouldn't that add noise?
Same question here, got the 9200 primarily because of the secure gain setting, but the volume button can be (accidently) moved (in stealth mode). I was thinking: volume way out, than some tape over that knob, and adjust gainknob from that point on (with M10 at unity 4/5). Looking for confirmation on this.
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I often use the same gear (with omni) as boombox.
What I do is to simply turn CA-9200 vol to max and set Edirol around 60 (line input). Its usually good.
If I need a little more/less input, I usually set it on Ediriol, because I check the level on that gear, so its already in my hand...
I set extra gain on CA-9200 if I needed much more input.
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I've just ordered a CA9200, and would like to know how big it is so I can consider if my camera bag is big enough, but can't find any size info anywhere.
Does anybody know the dimensions of the CA9200?
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From the tip of the knobs to the bottom, it is 4 1/2" tall. 2 1/2" wide (side to side across the front), and 1 1/8" deep (front to back.)
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Thanks for that danny3, about the same as the M10 then.
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Thanks for that danny3, about the same as the M10 then.
The 9200 is "slightly" wider and "slightly" shorter, I love mine (great for stealth!)!
Did just get a Littlebox though......
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That's why the output level is there because you can set your gain range and lower the output if needed with out a huge jump. You can also go into attenuation for devices like a camera where you get the gain you need and then attenuate the output so as not to freak out the agc of the camera or overload the fragile mic input. This allows total flexibility for all kinds of inputs. I obviously need to make a user manual the only problem is I can illustrate very well at all ;)
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hi chris, the design is good and a second knob gives full flexibility. However, as a paranoid stealthtaper it would be even better if that on/off knob can somehow be set firm. so it wont move anymore (think stealthsituation)... but difficult to make i guess...
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hi chris, the design is good and a second knob gives full flexibility. However, as a paranoid stealthtaper it would be even better if that on/off knob can somehow be set firm. so it wont move anymore (think stealthsituation)... but difficult to make i guess...
Its not that easy of a knob to move by it self. As a matter of fact I have never had someone complain that they moved it by accident. Locking knobs are extreamly expensive and defeat the purpose of the knob it self :_) being able to quickly adjust the knob when acoustic levels change quickly as can be the case going from say an opening act to a headlining act. Its very easy to say lets put this in or that in. But at the end of the day at this price point you aren't going to get all the bells and whistles. :) What you are getting is a low noise flat frequency response high gain compact preamp cheaper than anyone else is selling one ;) I can at customers request remove that pot all together and put in little trim pots but thats a ugly 2 preamp and maybe for customers that are paranoid with adjustments... Thats the preamp for them because that does not have a pot it only has a gain switch like the 9200. Another solution that is so simple it hurts.. Is take the knob off the level adjustment. You can still use the pot but I guarantee that cant move by it self unless you are doing aerobics lol but it will be much more difficult to move with your fingers.
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I use a STC-9200 in low pro situations and agree with Chris about the volume knob, it's not easy to move. In fact I would say it would probably be easier to move if it was in a bag with other gear that might be jostled around a bit. In the low pro situations, there are input and outputs on either side of the knob "protecting" it from being moved, so IMO a bigger concern would be cables pulling out of their place. I've actually had that happen but I don't think I've ever accidentally turned the volume off or down.
My setup is CA-14s/Cards > STC-9200 > DR-2d(line in), sometimes with CA-14s > UBB > DR2d(mic in). I have the STC-9200 set to +15 db and have never had an issue with overloading at those settings. I think the CA-14s > STC-9200 +15 db > DR-2D line always peaks around -8db for the loudest shows (metal) I attend. In fact sometimes I have to amplify by 12 to 15 db in post. I'm wondering - would +30db on the STC-9200 be too much? I've recorded with the STC-9200 set to +30db but it seems risky. The only time I've used the +45db setting was for bluegrass outdoors, it seemed even +30 would result in low levels.
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I use a STC-9200 in low pro situations and agree with Chris about the volume knob, it's not easy to move. In fact I would say it would probably be easier to move if it was in a bag with other gear that might be jostled around a bit. In the low pro situations, there are input and outputs on either side of the knob "protecting" it from being moved, so IMO a bigger concern would be cables pulling out of their place. I've actually had that happen but I don't think I've ever accidentally turned the volume off or down.
My setup is CA-14s/Cards > STC-9200 > DR-2d(line in), sometimes with CA-14s > UBB > DR2d(mic in). I have the STC-9200 set to +15 db and have never had an issue with overloading at those settings. I think the CA-14s > STC-9200 +15 db > DR-2D line always peaks around -8db for the loudest shows (metal) I attend. In fact sometimes I have to amplify by 12 to 15 db in post. I'm wondering - would +30db on the STC-9200 be too much? I've recorded with the STC-9200 set to +30db but it seems risky. The only time I've used the +45db setting was for bluegrass outdoors, it seemed even +30 would result in low levels.
And for guys who will be moving around plenty I offer 3 pin locking Mini xlr as an option for connections how ever each pair of mics must be terminated to a 3 pin mini xlr. Making the use of my preamp mandatory for operation of my mics.