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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: -Q- on August 01, 2007, 12:50:21 PM
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i've been using a pair of old AKG screens and they just aren't cutting it outdoors. i made a pair of dead rats for them and it better but still getting wind noise.
so CCM4's users what do you use?
thanks
Carl
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schoeps w5d i've used these for my last few outdoor shows with absolutely no wind noise :D
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DPA uA0896 are pretty common and pretty versatile
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Shure A81
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I've found that the schoeps w5d isn't enough protection for moderate winds outdoors (8-10mph). The DPA uA0896 and the Shure A81WS are probably the two most popular screens for outdoor use. DPA's are cheaper, but reportedly provide less protection than the shures. I'm not sure how either would work with the ccm series mics because of the mics size.
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I've found that the schoeps w5d isn't enough protection for moderate winds outdoors (8-10mph). The DPA uA0896 and the Shure A81WS are probably the two most popular screens for outdoor use. DPA's are cheaper, but reportedly provide less protection than the shures. I'm not sure how either would work with the ccm series mics because of the mics size.
Shawn are you sure you are referring to the w5d($89) and not the w5($28)? i've taped in at least 20mph gusts with no wind noise whatsoever. YMMV
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I've found that the schoeps w5d isn't enough protection for moderate winds outdoors (8-10mph). The DPA uA0896 and the Shure A81WS are probably the two most popular screens for outdoor use. DPA's are cheaper, but reportedly provide less protection than the shures. I'm not sure how either would work with the ccm series mics because of the mics size.
I believe you are thinking of the Schoeps B5D.
(http://www.schoeps.de/images-2004/b5d-rc.jpg)
The W5D's can take 20 mile per hour winds.
(http://www.schoeps.de/images-2004/w5d-cmc.jpg)
I have taped with 20 mile per hour winds, with great results. They sren't cheap, though.
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Jinx!!
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Jinx!!
;)
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the DPA ua0896 def fit the CCM mics and im pretty certain the Large Shures do as well
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I'm not sure how either [DPA UA0896 and Shure A81WS] would work with the ccm series mics because of the mics size.
I've used both with my MKx + KC5 actives, so they probably fit fine.
And if you really want to protect yourself from wind, consider a Rycote Baby Ball Gag ($$$).
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I've found that the schoeps w5d isn't enough protection for moderate winds outdoors (8-10mph). The DPA uA0896 and the Shure A81WS are probably the two most popular screens for outdoor use. DPA's are cheaper, but reportedly provide less protection than the shures. I'm not sure how either would work with the ccm series mics because of the mics size.
I believe you are thinking of the Schoeps B5D.
(http://www.schoeps.de/images-2004/b5d-rc.jpg)
The W5D's can take 20 mile per hour winds.
(http://www.schoeps.de/images-2004/w5d-cmc.jpg)
I have taped with 20 mile per hour winds, with great results. They sren't cheap, though.
ah yes. I must apologize. I was thinking of the b5d. sorry about the confusion folks.
+T to everyone.
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thanks all,as much as i'd like to buy the W5D's i'll try the DPA and save 150 bucks
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thanks all,as much as i'd like to buy the W5D's i'll try the DPA and save 150 bucks
do yourself a favor and get the Shure a81ws. the DPAs will fail you.
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go with the shures. i run mk4/21's on kwon bars and they fit just fine.
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thanks all,as much as i'd like to buy the W5D's i'll try the DPA and save 150 bucks
do yourself a favor and get the Shure a81ws. the DPAs will fail you.
i think the DPAs are much more versatile than the shures - def much more of a sonic impact with the Shures IMO. I've only needed the shures in a few situations where the wind is really really gusting. YMMV
ideally it would be nice to have a pair of each but i use my DPAs at least 20x more than the shures
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I recomend the schoeps B5 D.I ran those DPA's outdoors plenty of times and they are fine as long as there's no wind really.I found that the schoeps B5 D's are much better than the DPA's if there's any wind involved.I run a pair of B5's for indoor stuff.
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go with the shures. i run mk4/21's on kwon bars and they fit just fine.
agreed, the big-ass shures fit my mbho caps/kwon bar active setup just fine. and these are THE BOMB in bigger wind storms. I have NEVER heard wind noise/rumble since buying them many years ago. Ive honestly recorded prolly 150-200 sets outdoors using them and they have been rock solid EVERYTIME. now phasing is another issue. when i sometimes use hypers outdoors with them, i get a TINY bit of phasing at times, but that sure beats the hell out of wind noise/rumble :)
and I also have the bigger dpa's and used them outdoors back in 2001/2002 and they work ALRIGHT, but as soon as you get a huge gust of wind, they dont work too well. I just use my DPA screens for indoor shows and for transporting my MBHO caps+Kwon Bar setup thats already connected and ready to roll 8)
so if you have the $$, id get both the shures AND the bigger DPA screens, thatw ay you'll be covered for indoor and outdoor shows and the cost of both pairs is prolly stiull cheaper than the Schoeps big-ass screens :)
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I'm getting the impression that some people here don't quite realize the severity of the problem, and why the Schoeps B 5 D was recommended specifically. From the outside, the B 5 D looks much like a simple teardrop-shaped windscreen such as the Schoeps B 5 or some other models which were suggested.
On the inside, the B 5 D is hollowed out between where the capsule fits and the outside surface. This isolates a volume of air around the capsule, including both the front and side/rear sound inlets of a pressure gradient (directional) capsule. As a result, it's far more effective in suppressing wind noise, but doesn't interfere with the microphone's directional pattern or high frequency response as much, as a conventional windscreen.
There's a corresponding difference between the spherical foam windscreens W 5 D and W 5, which of course are somewhat larger, and keep the air turbulence farther away from the capsule membrane.
Unfortunately these "D"-model windscreens are more expensive to manufacture than their simpler counterparts. I definitely wish that high-quality accessories could cost less than they do, but the inexpensive ones just don't work very well when they're needed most.
--best regards
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thanks all,as much as i'd like to buy the W5D's i'll try the DPA and save 150 bucks
do yourself a favor and get the Shure a81ws. the DPAs will fail you.
i think the DPAs are much more versatile than the shures - def much more of a sonic impact with the Shures IMO. I've only needed the shures in a few situations where the wind is really really gusting. YMMV
ideally it would be nice to have a pair of each but i use my DPAs at least 20x more than the shures
why risk it tho? its not like when you feel a huge gust of wind, you can say 'Hold on wind, let me put on my bigger windscreens' :) thje big-ass shures can fit onto my mbho/kwon bar setup and have a dual purpose. they save my recordings from wind noise and also, they help protect the capsules while theyre on the kwon bar in my portabrace setup. i can fit the shures just fine if I know im doing an outdoor show :)
If you ONLY can afford ONE PAIR, id get the big-ass shures without hesitation and thank yourself later. when you have a little extra $$$, get the bigger DPA's for recording indoors :) I personally ahve ran screens even indoors in nice places. they are protection for the mics, plain and simple. they protect the mics/capsules from smoke and what if your stand goes down? BAM, no more capsules or mics :'( so they have 2 purposes, even indoors, they stop wind inside(fans/AC) and act as protection in the PB bag setup.
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I'm seeing the suggestions for cheap substitutes and am getting the impression that some people here don't realize why the Schoeps B 5 D was recommended rather than the B 5 or any other simple windscreen. One problem is that they look so similar from the outside.
On the inside, though, the B 5 D is hollowed out between where the capsule fits and the outside surface. This isolates a volume of air around the capsule, including both the front and side/rear sound inlets of a pressure gradient (directional) capsule. As a result, it's far more effective in suppressing wind noise, but doesn't interfere with the microphone's directional pattern or high frequency response as much, as a conventional windscreen.
There's a corresponding difference between the spherical foam windscreens W 5 D and W 5, which of course are somewhat larger, and keep the air turbulence farther away from the capsule membrane.
Unfortunately these windscreens are more expensive to manufacture than their simpler counterparts. I definitely wish that high-quality accessories could cost less than they do, but the inexpensive ones just don't work very well when they're needed most. I know I didn't buy good microphones just to have my recordings ruined by problems that I could have avoided easily enough.
--best regards
exactly why i bought the W5Ds. after buying $3500 microphones, i couldn't let another $180 keep me from sufficient wind protection.
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thanks all,as much as i'd like to buy the W5D's i'll try the DPA and save 150 bucks
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,88906.0.html
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I have the B5D's. They don't cut it in windy conditions. go with the shures. I use the B5D's in no to very light wind outside, or inside if there is noticeable air movement from fans, HVAC, etc.
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I have the B5D's. They don't cut it in windy conditions. go with the shures. I use the B5D's in no to very light wind outside, or inside if there is noticeable air movement from fans, HVAC, etc.
fyi, there is a company on ebay, windcutter, that makes custom dead rats with elastic around the openings for nice tight fits. they made me a pair for my B5Ds and they fit perfect. i have yet to test them out, as i bought the W5Ds around the same time. i have a feeling that a dead rat over the B5Ds will make them sufficient in most situations.
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I'm getting the impression that some people here don't quite realize the severity of the problem, and why the Schoeps B 5 D was recommended specifically. From the outside, the B 5 D looks much like a simple teardrop-shaped windscreen such as the Schoeps B 5 or some other models which were suggested.
On the inside, the B 5 D is hollowed out between where the capsule fits and the outside surface. This isolates a volume of air around the capsule, including both the front and side/rear sound inlets of a pressure gradient (directional) capsule. As a result, it's far more effective in suppressing wind noise, but doesn't interfere with the microphone's directional pattern or high frequency response as much, as a conventional windscreen.
There's a corresponding difference between the spherical foam windscreens W 5 D and W 5, which of course are somewhat larger, and keep the air turbulence farther away from the capsule membrane.
Unfortunately these "D"-model windscreens are more expensive to manufacture than their simpler counterparts. I definitely wish that high-quality accessories could cost less than they do, but the inexpensive ones just don't work very well when they're needed most.
--best regards
<Has sinking feeling after just taking delivery on the Shures>
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fyi, the Shures use 2 (maybe 3) densities of foam. they have a very "coarse"/"open" celled foam around the capsule to create a volume of airspace, much like the Schoeps B5D's plastic cage. same idea. these really are great windscreens.
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For my Schoeps, I use the Schoeps B1 screen for all indoor recording (smoke protection). I leave the caps (connected to actives) in these screens for storage, and then the they are placed into a plastic film container (perfect fit)! The next step up for me is the standard Schoeps B5 screen for no wind but outdoors! On a windy day, I always reach for the Shures and they have never let me down. I would like to add the B5D, but I really see no reason as I have all of the bases covered.
Just my $0.02...
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i just bought the Shure's. i'll let know how they work out for me.
thanks again all
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i just bought the Shure's. i'll let know how they work out for me.
thanks again all
you'll love them. a great pair of screens are often over-looked at saving a few bucks and getting a cheaper pair. but there is a reason you dont see many big-ass shures FS in the YS here at ts.com, its because they freakin rock and noone wants to get rid of them if they tape even once outside a year. Theyre worth EVERY penny and for the price, is a KILLER deal IMO. doesnt get any better for SD's without spending MUCH more on a rycote or the like. You wont be disappointed. Like I have said before. on shows where the wind is REALLY blowing and im SURE I will hear it on the tape later oin, I am amazed everytime that there is no wind noise/rumble and if anything, just a little phasing at worst :)
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fyi, the Shures use 2 (maybe 3) densities of foam. they have a very "coarse"/"open" celled foam around the capsule to create a volume of airspace, much like the Schoeps B5D's plastic cage. same idea. these really are great windscreens.
Feeling better already. I will be trying them tomorrow at a "bridge festival." Yeah, not much going on out here on the coast. LOL
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go with the shures. i run mk4/21's on kwon bars and they fit just fine.
Yup, I ran MK4s and MK21s both with the big Shure A81s screens with zero problems. If the Shures don't help it's too damn windy to be taping! :)
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Yup, I ran MK4s and MK21s both with the big Shure A81s screens with zero problems
When you guys run these with the KWON bar; does the windscreen need to bend around covering some of the bar, or are they small enough to just pop on over he caps?
Thanks, ;D
Jesse
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i did get the Shure's and they worked out nicely. no wind noise when i taped at the vibes. they fit on the CCM4'S snuggly and just touch the kwon bar
thanks again all
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Big shure user here.. I'd really like to do an audio comp of the various windscreens in common use. I'm more curious about how they impact sound when there is no wind vs. their resistance to wind. As DSatz indicated, I think the air space around the capsule is important. But how much do the non-airspace designs impact sound?
I've noticed big subject differences in foam density when you put the windscreen up to your mouth and try and blow through it over a small area (from the side) The big shures have foam with very tiny pores and yet they seem to easily pass a lot of air. In contrast, some screens with larger pores don't. Not sure how significant that is but things like random foam balls, etc, don't tend to pass much air (same for my cheapo windtech screens). I imagine manufacturing a foam that is truly porous is more difficult.
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I used the dpa's with additional rycote mini-windjammer on top of them on shoeps ccm5 (fantastic mirophone!!!) with great results. even on the oceanfront with a stiff breeze ...
most important factors to reduce wind-noise:
1. use omnis instead of cards
2. use low-cut filters
3. rycote windjammer in addition to foam screen
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For my MBHO Actives/KwonBars I use the DPA screens with a dead rat over the DPA Screens. So far, they have worked out tremendously. I didnt like using the big-ass shures on my actives simply because bending the shure screens around the KwonBar seemed to really widen the big-ass shures hole where the mics go. I normally wouldnt care, but I also use the big-ass shures with my 480's and I didnt want the shures hole to stay widened for when I use them on my 480's.
So my 480's use the big-ass shures permanently and my MBHO's use the DPA Screens+Dead Rats permanently. The DPA Screens+Dead Rats dont have to 'bend' around the KwonBar, so the DPA Screens hole cant possibly be widened. In fact, the DPA Screens+Dead Rats NEVER come off of my MBHO Actives/KwonBar for protection when in transport as well. Not to mention the protection they have when using them indoors in smoky environments. Hell, my setup is moron proof too. I leave the DPA Screens+Dead Rats kept on my MBHO Capsules/Actives at ALL times. And the hyper caps are ALWAYS kept on the DINa KwonBar. And the KwonBar is ALWAYS kept on my Shure a53m Shockmount. And the screw for the Windtech clamp is ALWAYS kept in the screw slot of the Shure A53M shock so I can just whip out the MBHO Actives setup and toss that sucka in my Windtech clamp and Im ready to roll in under 2 minutes :) Also, my Active cables are ALWAYS attached onto the capsules/KwonBar setup and the Active cables are ALWAYS attached to my MBHO Bodies on the other end. And the Interconnects are ALWAYS attached to the MBHO Bodies on one end and the 722 on the other end so I can roll at a SECONDS notice!!! You get the idea I take it that I leave ALL of my MBHO Actives setup together and ready to roll at a seconds notice. VERY easy and foolproof that way. Not to mention the protection of that setup when in transport :) Damn, I LOVE my MBHO Actives setup ;D
I know that the big-ass shures have memory foam and would come back to shape/life even tho I had to 'bend' them around the KwonBar, but I still didnt want to take that risk. Im sure after repeatedly using the shures on the Kwon/Active Bars that the shures hole could possibly be permanently widened, thus making them not fit as securely on my 480's!
Anyway, I dont see why both of my windscreen methods wouldnt also work on the Schoeps capsules/Actives as well even tho the Schoeps are 1mm smaller than the AKG's/MBHO's!!! I would think that the better method would be the DPA Screens+Dead Rats for use on Active setups with Kwon/Active bars since they would be smaller than the Big-Ass Shure screens not to mention that you dont have to 'bend' the shure screens around the Kwon/Active bars leaving them possibly permanently widened at the hole end of the shures so they wouldnt fit as snugly on other mics if you had more than one pair of mics. It took my shure screens a few days at least to come back to life and the hole in them to go back to normal after I used them on my KwonBar!
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I used to run my CCM41's in a Rycote Stereo zeppelin with a Rycote Windjammer cover. It wasn't cheap however in 5 years of outdoor use I never once had a problem with wind.