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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: emalvido on March 17, 2006, 05:40:22 PM
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Hello Board :
Done my homework, read lots of posts asking: wich one is better?, taping results?, distortion? one vs other, ups, downs, recomendations, etc etc....
So I ended mixed up ???
Bottom line......... wich ones should I get?
Basically would be the SP-CMC-? wich model?
According to me, the choice would be SP-CMC-8
I tape in large arena, auditoroum; rock pop concerts, sometimes would be loud metal stuff.
I have used OKMII/R for 4 years, very happy with them I need to upagrade to cardiodids
I will use my loyal M1
Stealth basis
Ed ::)
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the 943 are smaller if your primary use is stealth. the 853 are a little bigger, but IMO, sound better... i think they are some of the best mics out there at the price point. 831 have a more limited responce and i am not a fan of what i have heard...
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the 943 are smaller if your primary use is stealth. the 853 are a little bigger, but IMO, sound better... i think they are some of the best mics out there at the price point. 831 have a more limited responce and i am not a fan of what i have heard...
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What he said!
AT853 is a small price increase from AT831, but provides: better sound, interchangeable capsules.
Richard
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Get some AT853s and give them some phantom power OR a three wire battery box and you'll be good to go until the upgrade bug strikes again.....
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I've got a sweet AT943 phantom/mini combo mod kit available in the Yard Sale.
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buy 853RX's and feed em phantom power, they sound better than the other 2 IMHO
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After running AT831s for 3 years (and having a few official releases to my name with these mics), I have to say they are tough and dependable mics, and forgiving for bad-sounding rooms.
AT853s are better, but need to be phantom or 3-wire battery box powered. I'm happy with the upgrade to them.
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There are a few guys offering the 3 wire boxes in the Yard Sale for $100. That will allow the AT853s to handle higher SPLs and bass. Or go phantom power as suggested, you will notice a difference in how they handle a typical show.
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Does anyone have any side-by-side pics of any of these mics together. I've only held the 943's in my hand, but I'm wondering what the 853's look like next to the 943's?
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Does anyone have any side-by-side pics of any of these mics together. I've only held the 943's in my hand, but I'm wondering what the 853's look like next to the 943's?
I don't have any pics but I'd say the at943's are 33% smaller, rough estimate.
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I'm looking into picking up a set of stealth mics - quick Q can the 853's deal with 30v from the Microtrack? I thought I saw they were 5-52v or something ... <shrug>
still debating on what to get, minimal budget though..
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http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=61740.0;topicseen
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I'll try and take a picture tonight of the two side by side
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OK, so if I get sp-sms-4 w/ at853 element, is a regular 9V batt box with no bass rolloff sufficient? (running into a jb3)
I have this: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-1
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I'm looking into picking up a set of stealth mics - quick Q can the 853's deal with 30v from the Microtrack? I thought I saw they were 5-52v or something ... <shrug>
still debating on what to get, minimal budget though..
fur fuksakes jim, you just saw my 853's whaddaya need to know :P
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OK, so if I get sp-sms-4 w/ at853 element, is a regular 9V batt box with no bass rolloff sufficient? (running into a jb3)
I have this: http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-SPSB-1
stop with your cheap bs and get the real deal with a phantom pwr supply
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I dont have money to throw around, kthx
Will it work or not, I dont feel like spending more money atm than I have to.
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I dont have money to throw around, kthx
Will it work or not, I dont feel like spending more money atm than I have to.
Work? Yes
Work well? No - take it anywhere loud and it'll overload and you'll be unhappy with the results.
I don't think there is any sonic difference between 3-wire battery box and phantom power, but hey, you guys go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong.
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I'm looking into picking up a set of stealth mics - quick Q can the 853's deal with 30v from the Microtrack? I thought I saw they were 5-52v or something ... <shrug>
still debating on what to get, minimal budget though..
fur fuksakes jim, you just saw my 853's whaddaya need to know :P
hey jcrab66, i've been curious about your rig since I noticed it.
AT853RX > AT8533x > PS2 > MT24/96
why don't you just run
at853rx > at8533 > microtrack via the 1/4 trs inputs? the microtrack will also provide the needed phantom power that the ps2 is providing. one less box to fuck with.
Exactly what I was thinking once I saw that they can use 9-52v, I wonder if 30- -> 48v would make much of a difference in dynamic range, self noise, etc..
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I'm looking into picking up a set of stealth mics - quick Q can the 853's deal with 30v from the Microtrack? I thought I saw they were 5-52v or something ... <shrug>
still debating on what to get, minimal budget though..
fur fuksakes jim, you just saw my 853's whaddaya need to know :P
hey jcrab66, i've been curious about your rig since I noticed it.
AT853RX > AT8533x > PS2 > MT24/96
why don't you just run
at853rx > at8533 > microtrack via the 1/4 trs inputs? the microtrack will also provide the needed phantom power that the ps2 is providing. one less box to fuck with.
Exactly what I was thinking once I saw that they can use 9-52v, I wonder if 30- -> 48v would make much of a difference in dynamic range, self noise, etc..
it doesn't matter how many volts of phantom power you are feeding the at's as long as it's = to or /\ 9 volts because in the end they are only getting ~< 9 volts to them anyways. the phantom adapters step down the voltage to that (9) because any more than 9 will fry the mics. the adapters need to be in the chain.
Here is where I am confused, do you really need the step down adapters? I'd assume it'd be ok to just plug em in to a phantom source providing 11-52v (I checked at's site on phantom spec).
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here is why I was inquiring:
Operates on battery or phantom power
PHANTOM POWER REQUIREMENTS 11-52V DC, 2 mA typical
so I take it it comes with the adapters then (normally). ??
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here is why I was inquiring:
Operates on battery or phantom power
PHANTOM POWER REQUIREMENTS 11-52V DC, 2 mA typical
so I take it it comes with the adapters then (normally). ??
tha AT853rx comes with the adapters. the "rx" means that the adapters are already attached.
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here is why I was inquiring:
Operates on battery or phantom power
PHANTOM POWER REQUIREMENTS 11-52V DC, 2 mA typical
so I take it it comes with the adapters then (normally). ??
tha AT853rx comes with the adapters. the "rx" means that the adapters are already attached.
thx
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I dont have money to throw around, kthx
Will it work or not, I dont feel like spending more money atm than I have to.
Work? Yes
Work well? No - take it anywhere loud and it'll overload and you'll be unhappy with the results.
I don't think there is any sonic difference between 3-wire battery box and phantom power, but hey, you guys go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong.
OK, maybe someone can help me understand exactly what is going on here. I was under the impression that a normal 9V battery box was adequate for mics of this nature. According to sp's website, with 9V of power, the CMC4's can handle up to 125db. Arent most concerts 130db at the stacks, with the number having a rapid decrease as you move away from the stacks? Is something more to the issue that Im missing here?
I just wanna stop fucking around and start taping shows and not worrying about it. And whats this 3 wire batt box?
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I dont have money to throw around, kthx
Will it work or not, I dont feel like spending more money atm than I have to.
Work? Yes
Work well? No - take it anywhere loud and it'll overload and you'll be unhappy with the results.
I don't think there is any sonic difference between 3-wire battery box and phantom power, but hey, you guys go ahead and correct me if I'm wrong.
OK, maybe someone can help me understand exactly what is going on here. I was under the impression that a normal 9V battery box was adequate for mics of this nature. According to sp's website, with 9V of power, the CMC4's can handle up to 125db. Arent most concerts 130db at the stacks, with the number having a rapid decrease as you move away from the stacks? Is something more to the issue that Im missing here?
I just wanna stop fucking around and start taping shows and not worrying about it. And whats this 3 wire batt box?
There are two issues: 1) voltage, 2) wiring.
1) voltage, can be between 1.5 and 9V. 9V is best, although, in reality, 3 or more volts is enough. Plug in power on minidisc only gives about 2V, not enough. All battery boxes give 9V. Phantom power adapters give 9V (by stepping down from 48 to 9V).
2) wiring. Inside the mic body there is a three wire transistor called a FET ("field effect transistor). This strengthens the *very* weak signal from the electret element. (All condenser mics have a fet, either in the mic body, or in the capsule it self.) Now, there are two ways to wire the FET. Proper wiring is called "three wire", three connections (battery, mic signal, and ground). Cheaper wiring uses "two wire", two connections (battery and mic signal share one wire, the second wire is ground). To handle loud signals (and to sound good, period) you need a three wire configuration.
The "three wire" battery box provides 9V, and proper "three wire" connection.
The phantom adapters provide 9V (stepdown from 48V) and proper "three wire" connection.
The standard battery box provides 9V, but only "two wire" connection.
Plug in power (eg., minidisc) provides 2V and only "two wire" connection.
You want either a three wire battery box, or a phantom adapter.
Oh yeah, see Sanjay about the three wire battery box.
Richard
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Thank you for the clear and concise explanation
I dont think this is something that I can have done right at this moment, Id most likely have to wait a few weeks to look into it/spend more monies
Im still curious though; I have a plain ole 9V battery box that I plan on using with the CMC4 into a JB3. Since I dont have the 3 wire mod, how negatively will this affect this rigs performance? Is it going to overload at a much lower SPL, or will it still be able to handle 110-120db's without distorting? Is it going to sound like shit?
Id just like to know what I can expect from what I currently have now. In due time I will make improvements to my rig, but if my recordings are going to be unacceptable without this 3 wire mod, I will def step it up and get it done quicker
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Thank you for the clear and concise explanation
I dont think this is something that I can have done right at this moment, Id most likely have to wait a few weeks to look into it/spend more monies
Im still curious though; I have a plain ole 9V battery box that I plan on using with the CMC4 into a JB3. Since I dont have the 3 wire mod, how negatively will this affect this rigs performance? Is it going to overload at a much lower SPL, or will it still be able to handle 110-120db's without distorting? Is it going to sound like shit?
Id just like to know what I can expect from what I currently have now. In due time I will make improvements to my rig, but if my recordings are going to be unacceptable without this 3 wire mod, I will def step it up and get it done quicker
It depends! If you record quieter music and/or from farther back, it should sound fine. Then again, you'll have troubles getting good levels into the NJB3. If you record louder, or up close, you'll need the mods.
What you *really* need to do is step up to both a preamp *and* phantom or 3-wire mics. You *will* notice a difference once you do this.
So, go ahead and use what you've got, then you'll appreciate proper sound later. Anyway, any recording is better than no recording, so go for it.
As far as cost goes, you can learn to DIY. I've got lots of great pulls with self made 3-wire battery boxes into line in on my MD. (Unlike NJB3, line in has a lot of extra, and real, gain on MD.)
Richard
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Oh man my wallet is mad at me now. A preamp is definetly going to have to wait
Well, I have had training on electronics, do you know of any sites or references that show what needs to be done to do a 3wire mod?
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Oh man my wallet is mad at me now. A preamp is definetly going to have to wait
Well, I have had training on electronics, do you know of any sites or references that show what needs to be done to do a 3wire mod?
Join the Yahoo group "micbuilders". That should get you started (and distracted...).
Richard
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awesome
thanks for your help, it is much appreciated
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richard, +t for excellent, knowledgable, interesting answers. thank you.
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richard, +t for excellent, knowledgable, interesting answers. thank you.
Ditto. +T
For what it's worth, I've used the SP-CMC-8's (AT943) with the SP battery box for years and made many tapes that I am quite happy with. I'm finally moving to 3-wire + preamp (the Church Audio version), but like I said, I've made many a fine tape with the lesser setup. If that's all you can afford, go for it!
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richard, +t for excellent, knowledgable, interesting answers. thank you.
Ditto. +T
For what it's worth, I've used the SP-CMC-8's (AT943) with the SP battery box for years and made many tapes that I am quite happy with. I'm finally moving to 3-wire + preamp (the Church Audio version), but like I said, I've made many a fine tape with the lesser setup. If that's all you can afford, go for it!
QFT
i have made some really good tapes with 933s and just a battery box. and now i am going to mod them for phantom power soon
T+ richard. we need more tapers like you
Raphael
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okay, here's a question for anyone that can help. i own a pair of the AT Slimline 943's (SP-CMC-8) powered with the Samson PM4 phantom adapters. i've read here and numerous other places that the AT853's generally have better sound than the 943's. If i were to buy a pair of these adapters:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT-ADAPT
...i reckon I can buy some 853 caps and run them on my existing cables/hardware? if so, and the 853's really do sound better, i might give this a go as it wouldn't be a real expensive upgrade to gain better sound (100 bucks: $10/pair adapters, $90/pair capsules).
please let me know if you think this would be worth trying...thanks!
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okay, here's a question for anyone that can help. i own a pair of the AT Slimline 943's (SP-CMC-8) powered with the Samson PM4 phantom adapters. i've read here and numerous other places that the AT853's generally have better sound than the 943's. If i were to buy a pair of these adapters:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT-ADAPT
...i reckon I can buy some 853 caps and run them on my existing cables/hardware? if so, and the 853's really do sound better, i might give this a go as it wouldn't be a real expensive upgrade to gain better sound (100 bucks: $10/pair adapters, $90/pair capsules).
please let me know if you think this would be worth trying...thanks!
Sure, if you're able to score the 853 caps. I've only tried the subcards w/ the adapters (since there are no subcards for the 943s) and was very pleased with how it sounded. Not to mention, the adapters are cheap as hell.
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Ok guys! interesing posts!
So be it......... will get the SP-CMC-8 with AT´s853 and phantom modded.
I will get them with the sound proffessionals.
Regarding the phantom modded thing, when ordering; what will I have to ask for? and with wich modification?
Thanks! Im kind of new to the terms here., and dont want to screw it up,
Ed :)
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1) voltage, can be between 1.5 and 9V. 9V is best, although, in reality, 3 or more volts is enough. Plug in power on minidisc only gives about 2V, not enough. All battery boxes give 9V. Phantom power adapters give 9V (by stepping down from 48 to 9V).
Richard - I e-mailed AT to ask for the specs of their electret mics. They sent me a drawing showing the usual 2-wire and 3-wire alternatives, but the drawing showed supply voltages to be 1.5-15V. Looks like these can take a bit more voltage, although I don't know where to get a 15V battery :)
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okay, here's a question for anyone that can help. i own a pair of the AT Slimline 943's (SP-CMC-8) powered with the Samson PM4 phantom adapters. i've read here and numerous other places that the AT853's generally have better sound than the 943's. If i were to buy a pair of these adapters:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT-ADAPT
...i reckon I can buy some 853 caps and run them on my existing cables/hardware? if so, and the 853's really do sound better, i might give this a go as it wouldn't be a real expensive upgrade to gain better sound (100 bucks: $10/pair adapters, $90/pair capsules).
please let me know if you think this would be worth trying...thanks!
Sure, if you're able to score the 853 caps. I've only tried the subcards w/ the adapters (since there are no subcards for the 943s) and was very pleased with how it sounded. Not to mention, the adapters are cheap as hell.
thanks Audball, +t
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okay, here's a question for anyone that can help. i own a pair of the AT Slimline 943's (SP-CMC-8) powered with the Samson PM4 phantom adapters. i've read here and numerous other places that the AT853's generally have better sound than the 943's. If i were to buy a pair of these adapters:
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/AT-ADAPT
...i reckon I can buy some 853 caps and run them on my existing cables/hardware? if so, and the 853's really do sound better, i might give this a go as it wouldn't be a real expensive upgrade to gain better sound (100 bucks: $10/pair adapters, $90/pair capsules).
please let me know if you think this would be worth trying...thanks!
Sure, if you're able to score the 853 caps. I've only tried the subcards w/ the adapters (since there are no subcards for the 943s) and was very pleased with how it sounded. Not to mention, the adapters are cheap as hell.
thanks Audball, +t
sure thing. report back if you end up using them. I don't see many instances of people using them and it'd be cool to get some feedback from other's experiences.
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OK, so recorded billy joel last week using my new (to me) cmc-4 w/ at853>sp battery box (no rolloff)>line-in jb3
Was a little ways from the stack, so caught a little bit of reverb, but Im quite satisfied at how it turned out
A little bit of post processing to remove the boomy bass, and an ever so slight enhancement of some higher frequencies
have a listen
http://tinyurl.com/lo7pv
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hey jcrab66, i've been curious about your rig since I noticed it.
AT853RX > AT8533x > PS2 > MT24/96
why don't you just run
at853rx > at8533 > microtrack via the 1/4 trs inputs? the microtrack will also provide the needed phantom power that the ps2 is providing. one less box to fuck with.
its a battery preservation thing, in the tests i did with my mt the phantom pwr really ate up the battery quick...