Topic: Where does sound "come out" of an upright piano

[run_run_run]

The top lid thing?

Split omins up there?

[setboy]

I have seen people mic it from low on the back side of it. don't know if thats the "right" way of doing it.

[Mike R.]

some ideas here:

http://www.wikirecording.org/Guide_to_Recording_Pianos

[digifish_music]

I have seen people mic it from low on the back side of it. don't know if thats the "right" way of doing it.

They are usually against walls. So I vote on not moving the piano

I have recorded quite a few uprights in peoples houses (against walls), and it's a real pain to get a good sound out of them in this situation...however spaced omnis would be my choice. But not facing into the lid, you get way too much mechanical noise (of which there is a lot in an upright).

Actually what I prefer to do now after some experimenting (starting point at least) is to place a pair of spaced omnis about 6-12 feet back from and 1/3, 2/3 piano width either side of the performer (about standing head height) and put an NT4 directly over the performers head facing the open lid (with a little clearance so they don't whack themselves), and then find the most pleasing blend of these two mics...the NT4 picks up some nice attack with a very natural sound (from the players perspective) and the omnis give a nice sense of space/stereo spread. I'll also put a touch of reverb on that in post to try to make the room sound a little bigger.

...did I say I hate recording pianos in domestic environments

digifish

[run_run_run]

It is not against the wall! in a good way

[boojum]

GS has pursued this.  Consensus on uprights was get the sound from the back.  Get it away from the wall.  YMMV

[H₂O]

Sound comes from the back (the back exposed area on the back is called the soundboard)

[Gutbucket]

..Consensus on uprights was get the sound from the back.  Get it away from the wall.  YMMV

Sound comes from the back (the back exposed area on the back is called the soundboard)

The back of an upright = the bottom of a 'regular' piano. 
Agreed on moving it away from the wall and on most domestic sized rooms sucking. If perchance the domestic room is way out in the woods where it's quiet enough, open all the windows and doors.  That worked for me once to 'improve' a mediocre room.

[digifish_music]

The back of an upright = the bottom of a 'regular' piano. 
Agreed on moving it away from the wall and on most domestic sized rooms sucking. If perchance the domestic room is way out in the woods where it's quiet enough, open all the windows and doors.  That worked for me once to 'improve' a mediocre room.

About the soundboard, you know manufacturers don't help themselves by making the soundboards quite ugly and looking like unfinished stud-walls,



....so the typical response from customer is to hide that ugly side by butting it up against a wall

digifish

[Gutbucket]

Good point. Come to think of it I don't think I've ever seen a finished back on an upright.  I wonder why.  Some nice wooden louvers or something would work well.

I never recorded it, but I was frequently around an old upright tack piano years ago.  The mechanical noise out the raised top just added an additional quality to to the bright 'tack' sound when the pedal was engaged.  It was almost like walking through the saloon doors with dust on your spurs.

[mblindsey]

I went to a recording workshop, where we tried a lot of techniques.  I personally liked the sound that came out of the top best, but it's a matter of taste...

--Michael

[Krispy D]

depends on the upright.  The sound board is the back so positioning mics low along the back sound nice in a large room.  The top does introduce mechanism noise but if it is an upright grand you can get a great sound there and be far enough away from the hammers.  If it is against the wall in a smaller room I would mic the room and not the instrument.  walk around while the artist is playing and find the sweet spot.  It will be defined by the room so there is no cut and dry answer to where it will be.  could be 5 feet back at head height.  Could be off to the side at the other end of the room.  You never know.  Too many variables.

[digifish_music]

I went to a recording workshop, where we tried a lot of techniques.  I personally liked the sound that came out of the top best, but it's a matter of taste...

--Michael

Thanks for the pics. You certainly get a nice sharp attack hovering over an open lid, but I am surprised you didn't get too much mechanical noise?

digifish

[boojum]

In the discussion I have seen elsewhere on the upright, the problem of mechanism sound is the downside of recording out of the top.  Maybe two on the top and two on the back, at the sweet spot back there?

[mblindsey]

I went to a recording workshop, where we tried a lot of techniques.  I personally liked the sound that came out of the top best, but it's a matter of taste...

--Michael

Thanks for the pics. You certainly get a nice sharp attack hovering over an open lid, but I am surprised you didn't get too much mechanical noise?

digifish

It's been a over a year since I took that workshop, but I don't remember the mechanical noise being a big problem.  Then again, we experimented with a crap ton of mics and positions and it is feasible that I could have missed it (newbie).  I remember the open lid being more "clean/crisp", while the outside was "warmer"...as a you would probably expect.  I suspect the player/style has something to do with the result, too.  The song we recorded was something classical, soft, and smooth.  I bet a ragtime song might have a bit more mechanical noise....

I do remember getting great results with those Coles Ribbon Mics in the pics on a lot of instruments on that studio.  I can't seem to afford them...

--Michael