Topic: CK61 or CK63

[vanark]

Here is the link to both sources from Friday night Karl Denson.  Same Stand.

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165095.msg2064095#msg2064095

akg 460b/ck63 > littlebox > 680

ck61 > naiant actives > littlebox > 680

I also prefer the CK61 source, but I have found I like the hypers in a DINa mic config and the fact this recording is a PAS may have something to do with why the CK61/DIN sounds nicer to my ears.

[vanark]

https://archive.org/details/dtb2013-05-17.ck61.flac16
https://archive.org/details/dtb2013-05-17.akg483.flac16

https://archive.org/details/oar2013-08-31.ck61.flac16
https://archive.org/details/oar2013-08-31.akg483.flac16

First two are inside about 30' from stage slightly off center
Last is outside about 300' slightly off

I prefer the cards in the first one, hypers in the second.  I think, like most things, it depends.

[adrianf74]

I prefer the cards in the first one, hypers in the second.  I think, like most things, it depends.

This is what I was trying to say earlier... one size DOES NOT fit all.  Even when a buddy and I have run CK61 and CK63's at the same time, the results have not always been straightforward as to what should sound better versus what did.

I will generally prefer DINa or DIN over PAS unless there is some weird room setup that makes the first two impossible choices.

[obaaron]

the next night.....same spot, same capsules, different Pre's.

https://archive.org/details/kdtu2013-10-26.ck61.tinybox.flac16 - ck61 > naiant actives/pfa > tinybox

https://archive.org/details/kdtu2013-10-26.akg463.UA5.flac16 - 463 > bm2p+ ua5

[vanark]

I will generally prefer DINa or DIN over PAS unless there is some weird room setup that makes the first two impossible choices.

I used to think there were situations that DINa or DIN did not work and went with something else along the lines of PAS.  I have now found that unless I'm stack taping and go A-B right at the stack, DINa works best for me when using hypers, even in situations where I think the room setup is not ideal.  I've not been satisfied with a PAS recording I've made with hypers.  I've used ORTF when fairly close a few times and also been happy.  That is the measure - are you happy with the recording.  I've found I'm happiest with my own when running hypers DINa.  YMMV and I expect it will. 

[willndmb]

more exact distance from stage - 38' from stage, 3 ft from center
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165298.msg2065980#new

[adrianf74]

I will generally prefer DINa or DIN over PAS unless there is some weird room setup that makes the first two impossible choices.

I used to think there were situations that DINa or DIN did not work and went with something else along the lines of PAS.  I have now found that unless I'm stack taping and go A-B right at the stack, DINa works best for me when using hypers, even in situations where I think the room setup is not ideal.  I've not been satisfied with a PAS recording I've made with hypers.  I've used ORTF when fairly close a few times and also been happy.  That is the measure - are you happy with the recording.  I've found I'm happiest with my own when running hypers DINa.  YMMV and I expect it will. 

Exactly... I think it's a trial and error situation where you have to figure out what works best FOR YOU and your ears.  I've run multiple configs over the years and since graduating to "real" mics, I've found DIN and DINa have their purposes.  If I'm in a smaller room, and the layout is decent, I find CK61/DIN is the way to go.  If I'm in an odd-shaped room or one that might be chatty/noisy, the CK63/DINa combo is what I reach for.  One size really doesn't fit all.

[achalsey]

This is off topic, so feel free not to respond, but I'm curious if people can actually tell the difference between DIN and DINa.  Its only a centimeter and a half difference in spacing on either side.  How much of a difference can that really make in a big shitty room...

To the OP though, I am very happy with my 63s.  I run them 9 times out 10, though thats mostly since its just between these and my CK 1X pair; which are cards made in 1989 and I think the 63s just sound better. 

Sort of going along with my first question, but I honestly can't tell much of difference in "openness" between my cards and hypers.  That said, I don't do any really critical listening, so I'm sure others will have stronger opinions one way or another.  Also, anecdotally, and it might just be the brighter aspect of the mic, or possibly the gear chain? but when unscientifically compared to MK4 recordings I sometimes check out, my 63 recording will sound more 'spacious' than the Schoeps cards.  Not quite as detailed and certainly with a different 'flavor' but more open none-the-less.

As for crowd noise reduction in the hyper pattern vs cards, I'm a cynic at heart, and like my stereo pattern choice question above, I have yet to hear any difference in crowd rejection between the choices.  Sort of the like the "golden ear," people can say there is but in my personal experience I have not witnessed it.  My tests mostly come from running my personal 63s vs. 1X, but also from comparing my 63s to friends MK4, and a little listening to friend's MK4 vs. 41 from shows I've been taping at as well.  Acoustic differences are certainly there, but actual amount of background crowd noise I have found to be practically the same across the board.

And again, I'm not a knowledgable or scientific type of taper, so my first hand experience is pretty much based on gut feeling over proper conclusions, but I'm totally happy just running the 63 hyper caps for pretty much everything.  61 caps are certainly on the list, and I would love the option, but the hypers fit my personal needs just fine.  YMMobviouslyV.


I will also just add that I ran the 63s very FOB for Panic this weekend and they sound freaking awesome....though I'm sure everyone's does from 7' high that close to the stage.   

[adrianf74]

DINa vs. DIN can make a difference with CK63 caps.  I've run my CK63's on a stand FOB this past summer on a DIN bar and I could hear a little bit of a "hole" in the stereo image (which people talk of).  It's not major but 3CM in total closes the gap a little and actually does help (many people have said as much when I asked about this previously -- running CK63's on a DIN bar, etc.).

I own both bars for both sets of caps.  It was an additional $55 investment but when I've dropped what I've spent on my hobby, I figured why not.  I'd say the caps are the bigger concern of the two and will cut through the sh*ttiest sounding room out there.

[axomxa]

I feel the best match for 460 bodies are a60/ck1s
but if you can't find them, then the ck63s work well in most rooms
the ck61s work well outdoors and in nice small rooms if you can't find the a60/ck1s

100% agreed.  The 63's and ac60/ck1's are the caps I own for the 460's.  Also in the process of raising funds to pull the trigger on nbob actives for these caps

[F.O.Bean]

PhilZone-Since you can borrow some ck61s, I would buy the ck63s FIRST Plus, since its the time of season when you and I will only be recordings indoors, I would DEF suggest the hypers That way you can save up and find some ck61s for summertime when youll be recording outdoors more often

[Phil Zone]

PhilZone-Since you can borrow some ck61s, I would buy the ck63s FIRST Plus, since its the time of season when you and I will only be recordings indoors, I would DEF suggest the hypers That way you can save up and find some ck61s for summertime when youll be recording outdoors more often

Hey, don't you know my name  

And I can't always borrow, only twice have I been extremely lucky to have an awesome friend to lend (that rhymes) I don't want to bother him repetitively. Plus and I still have other mics that have great sound!

[F.O.Bean]

PhilZone-Since you can borrow some ck61s, I would buy the ck63s FIRST Plus, since its the time of season when you and I will only be recordings indoors, I would DEF suggest the hypers That way you can save up and find some ck61s for summertime when youll be recording outdoors more often

Hey, don't you know my name  

And I can't always borrow, only twice have I been extremely lucky to have an awesome friend to lend (that rhymes) I don't want to bother him repetitively. Plus and I still have other mics that have great sound!

Sorry, CAM I know alot of tapers here on ts.com dont like to be called by their real names, hence their handles And Im one of them! VERY FEW tapers here on ts.com know my real name I dont like my real name anyway, and have been called Bean by my WHOLE family since I was 5 years old!