Topic: Neumann km184 > MP-2 vs. AKG 393 > MP-2

[willndmb]

I've already got a set of ToddR silver cables... so I'm set in that respect.

I might try and run both mics at shows... alternate sets or something, just to see what I like best, and then sell the others.

thats the only way to tell imo
even listening to them from different shows doesn't give you a true comp imo

[aberg]

Now, let's stir this up a bit... assuming I definitely wanted to upgrade from the 393's.... what does everyone like more:

neumann km184

or

mbho 603/ka200n

keeping in mind again that they'd be used with an mp2.

Cheers!

[krebsy]

I ran 391/93's for a bit before moving to km140's.  I think the 140's have a much clearer overall sound, but don't quite have the same thump that the blue lines have.  This biggest difference I noticed was that the top end on the Neumann's is sooooo smooth and detailed. They can be a bit clinical at times with the T+ UA-5, but get them in the sweet spot and lookout! I'm guessing you would be happy with the switch, but the blue lines are solid mics. I still like the tapes I made with them.

[JasonSobel]

in my opinion, I think the the Neumann's need a cleaner pre-amp to really sound good.
I started off with a pair of AKG 391's, running them through a ps2 > ad20.  then I sold the ad20, and bought some line transformers and a modSBM-1.  I thought the modSBM1 was great with the AKG's, but then I sold the 391's and bought a pair of km184's.  I thought that this combo really wasn't a good match.  so, I started thinking about picking up a used V2.  but with then decided to sell the modSBM1 instead and bought a new V3.  Granted, this isn't with an mp-2.  however, I think as a general statement, both the mp-2 and the modSBM1 can be described as "colored" or "warm" or whatever.  the point that I'm trying to make is that, IMO, you'd be much happier running a very clean pre-amp with the Neumann's.  and IMO, the mp-2 is not the cleanest of pre-amps.

to sum up, I think the km184's are great mics.  I definitely think they are a step up from the bluelines.  but, if you decide to go for it, perhaps also consider selling the mp-2.  oh, and km184 vs. mbho's.  I'd definitely pick the km184 over the ho's.  with the km184, you get the smooth classic neumann sound.  with the MBHO's, you don't.   of course, the with the km184's, you are "limited" to card's, but you've probably already considered that (and I put "limited" in quotes, because I think 80-90% of the time, I'd be running cards anyway.)

[aberg]

Yeah, that's a good point. However don't you think the mp-2 would level out about of the "brightness" of the km184's... that's what I've heard.

[JasonSobel]

Yeah, that's a good point. However don't you think the mp-2 would level out about of the "brightness" of the km184's... that's what I've heard.

honestly, it's all about what you want to hear on your tapes.  I didn't find the km184's particularly "bright", at least not overly so.  definitely not as bright as the MBHO's.  I think the mid-range on the km184's is their best attribute, very smooth.  only on rare occasions did I hear a small hint of harshness on cymbals (and this was through a V3 @ 16 bit, with the mics on-stage and close to the drums).  Basically, the mid-range is what draws me to a particular sound of mic.  The km184's have a great "sound" to them, and I wanted the pre-amp to add or take away very very little, because I liked the mics so much.  I didn't want a pre-amp to "balance out" or "level out" or somehow mitigate the sound of the mics in any way.  I just wanted the sound of the mics.

obviously, with so many choices for mics and pre-amps and A/D converters, not everyone wants to hear the same characteristics on their recordings.  what do you want to hear?  the sound of the mics, first and foremost?  or do you want gear in your recording chain to "balance out" or alter the sound of the mics.  You seem pretty dead-set to upgrade from the 393's.  what is it that you want to change in you recordings?

[aberg]

What I find lacking with the 393's is detail and clarity... the recordings don't sound crisp enough to me.

[JasonSobel]

What I find lacking with the 393's is detail and clarity... the recordings don't sound crisp enough to me.

well, IMO, the km184's certainly have more detail and clarity.  you could always get the km184's, and see if you like it with the mp-2.  if you like the sound, great, you're all set.  if you find that the mp-2 is adding or taking away too much from the mics, you could sell the mp-2 and pick up a used V2 or something like that.  I can't offer direct experience with the MBHO's, because I've never used them.

[JasonSobel]

oh, and perhaps you should also consider the Audix m1290's in the yard sale.  definitely a "clean" sounding mic.  I don't know, just a thought.

[aberg]

oh, and perhaps you should also consider the Audix m1290's in the yard sale.  definitely a "clean" sounding mic.  I don't know, just a thought.

It's a thought, but right now I'm really torn between the 184's and mbho's.

I agree with you about the issue of interchangeable caps. To me, having a whole bunch of caps just complicates a rig. I don't see myself being in so many different recording situations to warrant choosing a line with interchangeable caps necessarily. So that's not really a selling point for me. I do like the AKG bass, but sometimes it's a little overwhelming even. I have heard both muddy and real thumpy mbho bass recordings... so it's hard to get a feel for what these mics really sound like.

As always, a lot of what you hear on the archive is dependent on the venue and location, not necessarily the mics. I've been trying to get samples from outdoor festivals, which really let you hear what the mics sound like, instead of hearing what a "room" sounds like...

[JasonSobel]

on-stage is another great place to hear what a mic sounds like, hardly any "room" sound.

if you want to hear a lot of on-stage km184 > V3 recordings, check out the "Club d'Elf" section of the archive.  you'll find lots of my recordings from 2004 and early 2005.  just something to listen to that may or may not help you decide...

[aberg]

on-stage is another great place to hear what a mic sounds like, hardly any "room" sound.

if you want to hear a lot of on-stage km184 > V3 recordings, check out the "Club d'Elf" section of the archive.  you'll find lots of my recordings from 2004 and early 2005.  just something to listen to that may or may not help you decide...

I'm also getting sources from bands that I also tend to see a lot and tape... ie. Umphrey's, moe., etc... the more raucous jambands. I'm starting to lean toward the neumann's but I'll check out some of those on-stage tapes too.

[poorlyconditioned]

on-stage is another great place to hear what a mic sounds like, hardly any "room" sound.

if you want to hear a lot of on-stage km184 > V3 recordings, check out the "Club d'Elf" section of the archive.  you'll find lots of my recordings from 2004 and early 2005.  just something to listen to that may or may not help you decide...

I'm also getting sources from bands that I also tend to see a lot and tape... ie. Umphrey's, moe., etc... the more raucous jambands. I'm starting to lean toward the neumann's but I'll check out some of those on-stage tapes too.

Another thing is you might want to try the AKG 480's.  From what others say at least, this is a good match to the MP2.  Still got the AKG sound, but probably a bit nicer than the 390's.

I agree with what others have said though, so much depends on the band, the PA and the room.  It is hard to do, but I would love to hear identical settings using different mics.  Hey, I've got a Presonus Firepod (eight mic/line inputs).  If anyone wants to lend me a set of their mics I can run a side-by-side comparison .  Not in the big league, but I'm trying to score a Rode NT4 to compare: AKG 391/93 vs. Rode NT4 vs. AT853(C).  I'll post here if I succeed.

Oh yeah, can you rent a pair of Neumans?  I haven't found anywhere here, perhaps in a bigger city/store.

  Richard

[aberg]

I'm talking to Sanjay about he and I running a km184 vs. mbho603/200 vs. akg 393 comparison at moe in Syracuse next month... we both have essentially the same pre, so it would be a good test.

[poorlyconditioned]

I'm talking to Sanjay about he and I running a km184 vs. mbho603/200 vs. akg 393 comparison at moe in Syracuse next month... we both have essentially the same pre, so it would be a good test.

Excellent!  Be sure to report back when you get this...

  Richard