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Author Topic: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted  (Read 13513 times)

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Offline JasonSobel

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hey everyone.  here's the deal.
I love my Microtech Gefells.  I am very happy with the sound of my current recording gear (MG m200 > V3 > HD-P2).
however, I think that over the next several months, I'm going to be swapping out gear to get a low-profile recording setup, and also one that I can keep in a smaller bag :)
I'm considering many options, and here are my thoughts.  I'd love to hear any input from any of you.
oh, yeah, before we get to the mics, I think I'll be selling the V3 and the Tascam, and buying a SD 702.  I'd love to keep the V3, and another external pre might be in my future at some point down the line.  but part of the deal is that I don't want to spend a lot of money doing this.  selling the V3 and the HD-P2 will get me close to the 702, and selling the gefells will get me close to just about any mic out there.  so at this point, lets assume running mic-in to the 702.

I should also point out that in the many years that I've been taping, I've only had cards.  I've borrowed both hypers and omnis, and there are definitely times and places for those caps.  but I don't need them.  90% of the time, I'd run cards anyway, and the additional cost of extra caps isn't worth it for me.  so, cardiod caps is what I need :)

now, obviously, the choices I present below are quite varied, and a lot of this will come down to personal opinion.  but that's what this thread is all about, gathering other people's opinions.  so let's hear it.  also, if there's an option that you think I should consider that isn't listed below, let's hear it.

MG nbox
this would be the ideal solution for me, because I get to keep my gefell caps :)  but, who knows if this will ever be a reality, and how soon.  I already sent Nick a PM asking about the current status, so we'll see what he says.  if this will be ready to go in the next few months, that's my first choice.

DPA 4022
I think these mics rock.  definitely more transparent then the gefells, but on the other hand, the SD 702 is more colored than the V3.  so these could be a good fit running straight into the 702.  and I know there are several folks on this board who run thaty combo.  but these mics are expensive and they don't come up for sale used very often.  how much would a new pair set me back??

Neumann km140 with actives
these could also be a good option.  in general, they sound similar to the gefells, which I love.  but I think the bass handling isn't quite as good, the mids are very sweet, similar to the gefells.  but then the highs are a little less smooth than the gefells.  overall, similar to the gefells, but not quite as good.  I used to run the km184s for years, and of course there are a million recordings made with the km140s, so I'm familiar with there sound.  anyone run these directly into a sound devices?  with these, I think they sound best with a very transparant pre-amp behind them, and I'm not sure if the SD 702 pre-amp is up to that task.  what do you think?

Schoeps ccm4
schoeps are schoeps.  I've heard a million great sounding recordings with them.  and I've borrowed them many times in the past for stealthing (mk4 > kc5 > cmc6).  if I went with Schoeps, I think I'd go with the ccm4's, because they are smaller, and I don't really see myself needing anything other than cards anyway.  I like the sound of schoeps.  in my opinion, they are a more "laid back" mic that sounds good, but less in your face.  again, I think they shine with a transparant pre-amp, which the SD 702 pre-amps may not be the best match.  anyone run schoeps > sound devices??

Milab VM-44 Link
I've only heard a couple of recordings with these.  so I don't know too much about them.  in your opinion, do they stack up to the other options listed here?



so, that's where I am right now.  what do you think?  are there other options?  (and don't tell me about MBHO actives.  those mics are definitely not suited to my taste).


Offline nickgregory

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #1 on: November 26, 2006, 02:34:15 PM »
So I made the transition from MG to DPA a little over a year back and honestly have not looked back.  My main reason for switching was (1) I was absolutely tired of dealing with full bodies, and (2) I got a helluva a deal on the 4022s I bought (bought through a total package and resold everything else in it).  Given that though, I knew in my search for actives that I was either going to get an active setup for the MGs (was in conversation with Jon from JK Labs before he disappeared) or just get the 4022s, as none of the other options I was considering (Schoeps, Neumanns, MBHOs) came anywhere my taste in sound from a microphone. 

Now before the sale I was running MG200s->722...having recently switched from V3->DAT.  I found the 722 was more pleasing to the ear than the V3 with the MGs, as the V3 tended to lose some of the "warmness" that I liked with my tapes.  The 722 reminded me of my favorite combo to that point, the MP2->Mod SBM1, but unlike that combo, the bass was no where near as undefined and boomy as the MP2->Mod SBM1 would sometimes create.  The 722 to me was a pretty good middle ground between the V3 and MP2->Mod SBM1.

Shortly after getting the 722, the deal on the 4022s came up and I jumped on them, and with the help of a friend, had the deal wrapped up in a quick timeframe.  Now honestly, I loved the MGs...no question about it, and they are still one of my favorite microphones especially for rock music.  The active option of the 4022s was very appealing to me and to add that I had a ton of 4022 recordings that I loved from Scott and George.  So while I entered it a little blind as there werent many 4022>722 tapes available at the time, I made the move anyway.

The 4022s performed perfectly as I expected...pleasing sounding across the entire range, with definition.  Where they differed from the MGs is I think the bass from the MG200s was a little overwhelming to the mid range and higs at times.  The 4022s are pretty level across the board.  Now the one thing that took some getting used to on the 4022s was how to run them. 

Next came the common "DPAs are average unless in the sweet spot" issue.  Initially I was running them pretty much ORTF all the time with the occassional ORTF thrown in.  The stereo bar was just to tempting to not always use, and given XY with the MGs prduced very non dynamic sounding recordings to my ears I stayed away.  Scott Brown convinced me that for really poor acoustic enviroments I would be better off to get the individual shocks and a vark bar, and point the mics outside of the stacks.  This method has created some of my favorite tapes in really bad acoustic environments.  It still gives me the sense of space that I like and takes away some of the god awful echoes and bouncing effects I would hear normally.  With XY, Craig Davis convinced me that I should give that a shot more often, especially in areas where I am bit farther back than is suitable for ORTF (or you end up getting wierd echo artifcats), and unlike the MG XY experience I had, I found the 4022s to be extremely lively when setup this way.

So all that said, am I happy I made the move?  Without question.  My main concern with going with the 4022s was the average tapes and "some nights fantastic, most average" syndrome, and I am happy to report that this is not the case in my experience.  If you learn how to set them up for the environment you are in, and dont constrain yourself with the XY/ORTF bar, you can make fantastic tapes all of the time.  In addition, my current rig of 4022->722, is as simple as it gets and a rig that I am getting consistent results from.  In reading  your question, I wondered if there would be a case, if I had both sets of mics, would I chose to run the MGs over the DPAs, and the answer is no (talking cards here...I would love a set of omni MGs to play with). 

Rambled on a bit, hope that helps.  Here are some tapes if you are interested in hearing results with different combos

4022s->M148->722

http://www.archive.org/details/tishamingo2006-04-01.flac16

4022s->722

http://www.archive.org/details/tishamingo2006-11-04.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/glenphillips2005-11-06.flac16
http://www.archive.org/details/dbt2005-11-19.flac16

« Last Edit: November 26, 2006, 02:36:11 PM by nickgregory »

Offline shaggy

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #2 on: November 27, 2006, 03:02:47 AM »
Now with Schoeps, you have the new CMR active head to consider.  Schoeps will terminate them to any batt pack connection you like.  You get a 'CCM-like' set up but have the latitude of changing caps with out adding too much bulk (just your battery pack putting out 4-10V, no lemosax or vms needed).  Just place your favorite pre of choice behind the batt pack.  Oleg was saying that the are about $280 each in Germany, which seems so un-Schoeps like.

http://www.schoeps.de/PDFs/Schoeps-CMR.pdf

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #3 on: November 27, 2006, 07:28:23 AM »
thanks for both of your input, Nick especially...

Initially I was running them pretty much ORTF all the time with the occassional ORTF thrown in

oh yeah, ORTF most of the time, but sometimes ORTF  :P
but seriously, you touched on just about everything I have been thinking about and it's good to know that you've had a positive experience with the DPA's.

Now with Schoeps, you have the new CMR active head to consider.  Schoeps will terminate them to any batt pack connection you like.  You get a 'CCM-like' set up but have the latitude of changing caps with out adding too much bulk (just your battery pack putting out 4-10V, no lemosax or vms needed).  Just place your favorite pre of choice behind the batt pack.  Oleg was saying that the are about $280 each in Germany, which seems so un-Schoeps like.

http://www.schoeps.de/PDFs/Schoeps-CMR.pdf

you know, I saw that, but really, it doesn't interest me at all.  what's nice about the CCM series is that you just plug it straight in and your are good to go.  with that, you've got this extra little box.  granted, it's not big, but I'd go with the cmc6 bodies and kc5 active cables before I got that new box.  but, the whole thing is a moot point, because I'm happy with just cards and in all likely-hood, I wouldn't spend my money on other caps even if I did have the option.


any other input about these choices?

Offline nickgregory

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #4 on: November 27, 2006, 07:53:42 AM »
thanks for both of your input, Nick especially...

Initially I was running them pretty much ORTF all the time with the occassional ORTF thrown in

oh yeah, ORTF most of the time, but sometimes ORTF  :P
but seriously, you touched on just about everything I have been thinking about and it's good to know that you've had a positive experience with the DPA's.


damn...fingers going faster than the brain.  Initially I was running ORTF with XY occassionally...duh ;D

Offline ingsy

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2006, 09:08:07 AM »
Hey Jason!  long time, no speak.  As you know I traded my MG 200/210 setup for a set of Schoeps CCM41's...I can't say I like the sound a great deal more than the MGs (sometimes the extra low end is good, othertimes not) - but having a much smaller/lighter set of mics has many benefits.  Outside of the FOB/Stealth options they provide, I just tend to worry less while taping knowing that if the stand does fall, at least the mics on top won't hurt too much if they hit someone on the head - I know that sounds stupid but it is true (FWIW, it happened to me once).  Having a light gear bag that is easy to setup makes taping less hectic.
As you stated, the CCM setup is very easy, especially if this is going into an all in one box.
My opinion is that the MG NBox is also the best option - please shoot me a PM or update the thread with any info you find out about this.  You bought the MGs after the price increase and you might have to take a hit if selling them used.  At the very least I think the used price on those would be a good bit away from a brand new set of 4022's or ccm4's. I would say go w/ the DPAs as the second choice - mainly because you tape a lot of the same stuff Scott does and he has the Schoeps angle covered. Hope all is well, good luck with your decision. 
Mics: AKG C 414 B-XL II/ST, Nevaton MCE 400
Other: M148, AD-500e, AD-1000, ACM PMD 660, R09-HR, JB3

Offline Tim

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #6 on: November 27, 2006, 09:49:22 AM »
moke - do you have a vark bar and mic clips for your dpa's?
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Offline Brian

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 10:22:49 AM »
The ortf/xy bar, as the only option, has somewhat tainted DPA's reputation in poor rooms.

definitely not the only option.  a local st. louis taper (fobstl) uses the dpa shockmounts  with an akg(i think?) swivel t-bar for pretty much any variation of the standard patterns other than NOS.  however you could modify the t-bar to get NOS easily.  those DPA shockmounts are kind of a pain in the ass though i think.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #8 on: November 27, 2006, 10:37:34 AM »
the DPA shocks arent bad...just expensive.  And paired with the vark bar, makes for a nice quick setup, low profile and any angle (other than NOS) you will need

Offline Brian

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #9 on: November 27, 2006, 10:57:23 AM »
;) gotcha.  i thought that you had made a lot of your own bars.

Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #10 on: November 27, 2006, 03:29:24 PM »
I vaguely remember reading that the dpa's are more sensitive to wind than other SD mics?


Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #11 on: November 27, 2006, 04:47:45 PM »
lots of good info here.  mostly about the DPAs.  hardly any comments on the CCM series, and nothing about the km140 active setup, hmmm....

anyway
My opinion is that the MG NBox is also the best option - please shoot me a PM or update the thread with any info you find out about this.  You bought the MGs after the price increase and you might have to take a hit if selling them used.  At the very least I think the used price on those would be a good bit away from a brand new set of 4022's or ccm4's. I would say go w/ the DPAs as the second choice - mainly because you tape a lot of the same stuff Scott does and he has the Schoeps angle covered. Hope all is well, good luck with your decision. 

I'll definitely update this thread if/when I hear anything about the possible MG nbox.  at this point, though, I'm not really counting on it. and of course, cost is always a consideration.  I did pay a lot for the MG mics, and I hope that I'll be able to get a fair price for them here.  if not, I'll take them to ebay, although I'd prefer not to do that.  anyway, I'm more at the "conceptual stage" of things here, so I haven't really added up the hard numbers yet.  we'll get to that later :)  oh, also, although I'm leaning towards the DPAs of the CCMs, what Scott is running doesn't really affect my choices at all.  he's moving to LA in a month or two, so it's only a couple more d'Elf shows for him anyway.

in the meantime, let's keep this thread going.  has anyone run both the CCM's and/or the km140s directly into a sound devices box??  any other comments?

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #12 on: November 27, 2006, 05:53:58 PM »
I've stayed out of the thread as its such a personal decision.  I've run both Schoeps MKx/KC5/CMC6 and Neumann KM140s.  Love both sets of mics.  All the mics mentioned here are superior mics.  Haven't heard much of the Milabs, but what I've heard I've liked.  You gotta do what sounds best to your ears.

FWIW, I initially didn't like DPA's very transparent sound, but over time I've grown to appreciate them more and more.  Two big reasons for this, I think:  <1> my listening ear has developed over time, becoming more active and discerning, and not unrelated <2> I've improved my playback system.  The DPAs provide astonishing detail and depth and, of course, transparency.  (I've never understood folks comparing the 480s to the DPAs, I just don't hear similarities in ambient PA recordings.)

From the recordings I've heard, running the DPAs DIN, or a config with a tighter included angle than ORTF makes a huge difference in mediocre or poor sounding venues.  Just a guess, but I think narrowing the included angle on the DPAs doesn't collapse the soundstage and imaging as much as some other mics because they're so damn detailed.

Personally, I could never go with DPAs because I love too much the option of different polar patterns.  Hence my 414-XLS with omni/sub/card/hyper/figure-8 and Schoeps with omni/sub/card/hyper.  ;D
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Offline nickgregory

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #13 on: November 27, 2006, 08:25:30 PM »
(I've never understood folks comparing the 480s to the DPAs, I just don't hear similarities in ambient PA recordings.)

that makes two of us.  the difference is night and day in terms of the detail between the two

Offline MULETAPER

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #14 on: November 27, 2006, 09:13:13 PM »
the y let the hounds out jason!!!

thanks for your pm,when your ready to sell your 200's I ve got a great home for them.... :o :o
Beyerdynamic MC930's>Neumann KM184s>Tascam DR-680

Offline shaggy

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2006, 09:47:44 PM »
Jason,

Are you trying to achieve a small compact rig for ease of transport and setup OR do you have some plans for incognito taping?  As far as I know from playing around with various schemes for taping on the sly, I find Schoeps the best choice for flexibility beyond Brian's suggestion of cap interchangability.  To the point, I think that if you are truly thinking of a Kangol type of set up...Freelunch's lexan/cable holder/thumbscrew set up can not be beat.  Pair that up with the mk4vs with a KCY cable and the caps sit real naturally in the brim of the Kangol without the cables acting all weird and bits poking out.  Also, one cable is easier to deal with than two. 

KM140 with LC3KAs are a hassle, the cables are a mess.  You have to be methodical about putting them away.  I think if you were to go that route, I would suggest getting the lemo connector mod from Neumann USA so you can work with the cable without the mic body connection ends flying around....the problem is the kinks that form when the cable is twisted.  The mod also allows you to flexibility to use a SX-M2/LS or /LS2.

I know nothing about running 402Xs, and not as flame: I have to say that I have heard more bad sounding 402X tapes than good ones...maybe due to room/PA, location, mic orientation or whatever.  So, to me they seem to be less forgiving mics in bad environments than the others you have mentioned.

I remember someone saying quite sometime ago that MG was planning to make an active system for their 200 series caps.  Is this still a rumour or a pipe-dream?

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #16 on: November 28, 2006, 02:53:06 AM »
Friends don't let friends buy Schoeps.   ^-^

In all seriousness I'd say the 140's (the best all around mic IMO) or some 4022's (but I'm biased)

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #17 on: November 28, 2006, 07:35:06 AM »
ok, lot's of good stuff here.

first off, I heard back from Nick, and now I'm feeling much more optimistic about the MG nbox:

Quote
If all goes well we should have it going before the new year.  I will keep you posted.

so it looks like I'll just sit tight for another month or two, and buy the nbox to run with my Microtech Gefells.

Are you trying to achieve a small compact rig for ease of transport and setup OR do you have some plans for incognito taping?

a combination of the two.  thanks for the tips about the hat setup.  although I must say that I've borrowed a mk4/kc5/cmc6 setup to run in a kangol, and the two wires weren't that big of a deal to me.  I don't see how the km140 active setup would be any different, but maybe I'm missing something.

I remember someone saying quite sometime ago that MG was planning to make an active system for their 200 series caps.  Is this still a rumour or a pipe-dream?

as far as I know MG was never planning to make an active system themselves.  but there was talk of Nick making an nbox that would run the MG caps instead of the Schoeps caps.  it looks like that will finally be coming to fruition sooner rather than later :)

Offline MULETAPER

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #18 on: November 28, 2006, 10:12:52 AM »
Like I said before Jason,if you ever decide to let them go down the line PM me...They would go to a good home :coolguy:
Beyerdynamic MC930's>Neumann KM184s>Tascam DR-680

Offline jlykos

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #19 on: November 28, 2006, 10:30:39 AM »
One of the key benefits of the Gefells is the fact that you can run different caps.  I have the hypers and omnis and the M27 omni caps are absolutely incredible and are worth it for me not to run anything else.  I have heard many, many Scheops tapes and while many of them sound excellent, they have an unnatural amount of bass and the voicing often seems too strident, IMHO.  If there was a way of getting active Gefells with the option of changing the caps, that would be outstanding.

An issue with the Gefell caps as well is the staggering amount of money they cost.  I have been looking for a pair of M20 card caps and have not seen them for under $1000 a pair new.  Very few people run these so they do not show up used as well.

Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best," without having a clue in the world of how to run them.  That said, I really do not like how they highlight every detail of a bad-sounding room, even among skilled tapers.

Personally, I would stick with the Gefells, or try to run an NBox with them or something.  I would not sacrifice the sound quality of these mics over anything else.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2006, 11:09:21 AM by jlykos »
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Offline scb

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2006, 11:48:19 AM »
Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best,"

i think that's a bit ridiculous

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2006, 12:02:15 PM »
If there was a way of getting active Gefells with the option of changing the caps, that would be outstanding.

Personally, I would stick with the Gefells, or try to run an NBox with them or something.  I would not sacrifice the sound quality of these mics over anything else.

the nbox would be a way to run the Gefells with active cables.  it seems like that is going to happen sooner rather than later, and that's what I'll go for.  the question then becomes, how similar to the sms2000 bodies will the nbox sound (because when using the nbox, it's just the caps straight to the nbox, no mic bodies involved).

Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best,"

i think that's a bit ridiculous

An issue with the Gefell caps as well is the staggering amount of money they cost.  I have been looking for a pair of M20 card caps and have not seen them for under $1000 a pair new.  Very few people run these so they do not show up used as well.

yeah, at this point, all the mic options are great and the differences between them are a matter of taste.  that said, they are all also very expensive.  some options more-so than others.  but I don't really want to get into cost considerations just yet.  this thread is mostly to gather opinions and for me to "think out loud" about my options.  of course, cost will have to be a consideration when it comes down to my final choice, but I don't want to think about that just yet.

now, a little side-thought about the NBOX.  obviously no one has ever run one with the MG caps.  Tim has a JK Labs box that runs the MG caps, and he cannot tell the difference between it and the sms2000 mic bodies.  but we've never done a side-by-side comp and anyway, the nbox will probably sound different from his JK Labs box.  so, for the schoeps nbox, has any done a direct comparison between the mk4 > nbox and the mk4 > kc5 > cmc6 ??  many people are happy with the sound of the nbox behind their schoeps, but really and in actuality, is it indistinguishable from the cmc6 bodies??  or how about a ccm4 vs. mk4 > nbox ??  anyone ever done a direct comparison?

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2006, 12:09:45 PM »
so, for the schoeps nbox, has any done a direct comparison between the mk4 > nbox and the mk4 > kc5 > cmc6 ??  many people are happy with the sound of the nbox behind their schoeps, but really and in actuality, is it indistinguishable from the cmc6 bodies??  or how about a ccm4 vs. mk4 > nbox ??  anyone ever done a direct comparison?

There's no way to accomplish a truly direct comparison between the CMC6 mic bodies and the NBox because the NBox acts as mic bodies and preamp.  In other words, there's no way to isolate the "mic body" circuitry in the NBox.  The only comparisons we can make are MKx > NBox v. MKx/CMC6 > preamp or CCMx > preamp.  FWIW, my ears hear a distinct difference between the MKx > NBox and MKx > Lemosax, the only real direct comparison I've done.  And based on plenty of listening, though not direct comparisons, I hear a distinct difference between MKx > NBox and MKx/CMC6 > V3.
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Offline jlykos

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2006, 12:13:37 PM »
Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best,"

i think that's a bit ridiculous

You should meet some of the yo-yos I see at some of these shows.  Not giving you or Nick a bad name here; lots of people's tapes are outstanding with them.  I have run into some people who spent thousands on mics because "everybody says they're the best."  Maybe not coincidentally, these tapes are not the best.
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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2006, 12:18:17 PM »
Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best,"

i think that's a bit ridiculous

You should meet some of the yo-yos I see at some of these shows.  Not giving you or Nick a bad name here; lots of people's tapes are outstanding with them.  I have run into some people who spent thousands on mics because "everybody says they're the best."  Maybe not coincidentally, these tapes are not the best.


well lots of people do that with "shopes" and "new-mans" too :)

Offline nickgregory

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2006, 12:24:49 PM »
and some who fall in the same boat would say 480s sound like 4022s :P

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2006, 12:59:16 PM »
and some who fall in the same boat would say 480s sound like 4022s :P

That's because they run 480's.    :P  ;D   >:D 
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2006, 01:07:19 PM »
so, for the schoeps nbox, has any done a direct comparison between the mk4 > nbox and the mk4 > kc5 > cmc6 ??  many people are happy with the sound of the nbox behind their schoeps, but really and in actuality, is it indistinguishable from the cmc6 bodies??  or how about a ccm4 vs. mk4 > nbox ??  anyone ever done a direct comparison?

There's no way to accomplish a truly direct comparison between the CMC6 mic bodies and the NBox because the NBox acts as mic bodies and preamp.  In other words, there's no way to isolate the "mic body" circuitry in the NBox.  The only comparisons we can make are MKx > NBox v. MKx/CMC6 > preamp or CCMx > preamp.  FWIW, my ears hear a distinct difference between the MKx > NBox and MKx > Lemosax, the only real direct comparison I've done.

good point about that.  for the schoeps version, how much gain does the nbox provide?  is it variable?  that also brings up another interesting point, what we routinely call "mic bodies", most manufacturers refer to as an "amplifier" or a "pre-amp", although the mics still output a signal that needs gain before being recorded. (if you look at the schoeps website, it says the the CMC series consist of "a microphone capsule and amplifier").  so, is the NBOX a pre-amp in the sense that mic bodies are pre-amps.  or is the NBOX a pre-amp in the sense a Grace V2 or Sonosax SX-M2 or all the other pre-amps.  does the NBOX output a mic level signal that still needs more gain, or a line level signal?

And based on plenty of listening, though not direct comparisons, I hear a distinct difference between MKx > NBox and MKx/CMC6 > V3.

when the MG nbox becomes available, I wonder if it'll make my gefell caps sound spitty ??  :P

side note - this thread is now veering towards a discussion about the schoeps NBOX characteristics, which may or may not be similar to an currently unheard Gefell NBOX.  while this discussion is certainly interesting to me, because I'd like to get the MG NBOX when it becomes available (hopefully in the near future), I'm still interested in hearing anything that people would like to share about the Schoeps CCM series, or the Neumann km140 actives, or the DPA's, or the Milabs :)

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2006, 01:15:47 PM »
for the schoeps version, how much gain does the nbox provide?  is it variable?

Dunno how much gain.  Nick's on here, I think as user schoepsnbox.  AFAIK, it's typically fixed gain, but apparently a variable gain model is also available, as someone here has one.  There's also an Nbox+ now available, if I recall correctly.

so, is the NBOX a pre-amp in the sense that mic bodies are pre-amps.  or is the NBOX a pre-amp in the sense a Grace V2 or Sonosax SX-M2 or all the other pre-amps.

Both.

does the NBOX output a mic level signal that still needs more gain, or a line level signal?

Line level.
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Offline it-goes-to-eleven

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2006, 01:20:46 PM »
20dB of gain from the nbox.  Fluffhead has a version with variable pots.  But I THINK they may be attenuation and not amplification beyond the 20.. I believe he has the pots to make it easier to run into an ad1k, etc.  These days I much prefer stepped pots to variable.

The nbox is based on the RMOD.. The RMOD is reputed to be tuned specifically for mk4 caps.  So I would expect there might be some tweaking to optimize for the MG. I would say that the construction of the rmod is somewhat different than the nbox and they are definitely not the same.  I've never compared the sound.

Ultimately, I really want to build an MG RMOD but it all takes lots of time...

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2006, 01:37:02 PM »
ok, thanks for the clarification about the NBOX.

does the NBOX output a mic level signal that still needs more gain, or a line level signal?

Line level.

hmmmm, if it's only +20 dB of gain, that may be considered "line level", but I almost always need more than 20dB of gain.  if I run into a 702, though, then it won't really matter and I'll just add whatever gain I need on the 702...

The nbox is based on the RMOD.. The RMOD is reputed to be tuned specifically for mk4 caps.  So I would expect there might be some tweaking to optimize for the MG. I would say that the construction of the rmod is somewhat different than the nbox and they are definitely not the same.  I've never compared the sound.

Ultimately, I really want to build an MG RMOD but it all takes lots of time...

RMOD ??  what's that.  I always thought that the nbox was based on the RBOX (aka "Bill Box" aka "huber", first made by Bill Reuthelhuber).  I've never done a direct comp between them, but I have used the RBOX before, and my basic understanding was that the nbox had the same innards, but with nicer packaging (i.e. no sharp metal corners, etc, etc..)  of course, I might be wrong about that.  so, are you talking about the same thing when you say RMOD ??  obviously, Nick has needed to change a lot of the circuitry to create the MG NBOX, as it's taken a while to get it up and going. (and it's not out yet, but, optimistically speaking, it'll be available shortly).

Offline ingsy

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2006, 07:42:27 PM »
i hate to see any jk labs fluffing w/out adding that the fucker stole a shit load of gear/money from many of us ($500 worth of stuff from me).  sorry for venting, couldn't help it.

in terms of the MG NBox possibly sounding different than sms2000 bodies + (insert favorite pre-amp) - yeah, i agree.  i can't wait to try it out though, and Jason if you want to hold off and test the waters w/ mine, then that is OK.  i have no bodies, hence nothing to lose.  w/ a little help from Jason Adler (m20) and Brad's R4 we could setup a test using the same AD and recorder at a D'Elf show or something.
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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2006, 09:32:28 PM »
Tim -
yeah, I'm fully aware that the MG nbox may not sound identical to the mv200 bodies.  but my hope is that it sounds more similar to the "real" MG sound than any other option would.  when I buy a MG nbox, it would probably be in addition to my mic bodies, not replacing them.

Matt -
a comp with an R4 sounds like a great idea.  it shouldn't be hard to get Jason down to a d'Elf show and we can rock out the MG m200 vs. MG m20 > nbox :)
hopefully it'll be able to happen sooner rather than later.

Offline John Willett

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2006, 09:13:59 AM »
 Not having read all through this thread - but - I would add the new Neumann KM-D series to the list.

I am just getting a stereo pair of the KM 183-D and will be doing a week of piano recording the week after next.

Goes to digits at the mic. capsule and no distortion on overloads.   ;D

Offline Stagger

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #34 on: December 06, 2006, 03:57:29 AM »
Jason, Next time you rin into Carl Beck ask him about his 4022s. I believe his exact words were "I fucking hated to pieces of freeze-dried dog shit". He has owned Schoeps, AKG 48x's, DPAs and now runs my old c34. When I was looking to put my rig back together I aksed him what he whould do (after he refused to sell me back his (my) c34). He said that with out question he would get Schoeps. In his case mk41's and mk21's ~> CMC6. The Schoeps nay-sayers can piss and moan and -T me all they like but, Save for the WI panic show when security forced me and Charles under the balcony, all of my tapes with my new rig have smoked on all of my playback systems (I ma not trying to brag in the least here but none of them are crap and if a tape blows, I'll hear it...period) The Fabers, Krell/Martin Logan (yes fucking 'stats), HD600 cans, they all kick ass.

There is a reason that so many people run Schoeps and it's B.S. that it's just cause they want to wave their CMC6's around like their cock and the chicks love 'em (well the chicks do think Schoeps are damn sexy, right Stacy? [I won't tell Tim]). It's cause they make damn good tapes. Even more so with the Hess/Kwon DINa bars coming into more widespread use rather than the ORTF bars.

The Milabs are interesting but I don't like what I see on their response chart. I know the 11/4 Panic tapes smoked but most of the other discs I have heard sound just like the graph says they should sound... boosted in the high end.

Lastly, for now, why a 702? Do a 722. You will thank yourself later, the internal HD is, in my expierence, far more usefull than timecode. The fact that you can use either the INHDD, CF, or EXHDD (of which I have all) simply kicks ass. C-link will take care of most of what you would need the TC for (and you can still synch to an external TC with a BNC cable on a 722 anyway). Trust me, when you are dumping a C-inked 744 14GB files of the SBD+OMNI to your 80gb bus powered EXHDD in 10 min in the hotel so you can go home and do your 6 ch mix at home to compare with your friends FOB DPA 4022>722 (which you will smoke) that you dropped your 8gb flash card in and grabbed abck at the end of the set, all the while having a full backup of your mk4v>kc5>cmc6>V2>722 safely in your INHDD you will be very, very glad you have a 722.
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Offline John Willett

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #35 on: December 06, 2006, 04:53:12 AM »
I'm still interested in hearing anything that people would like to share about the Schoeps CCM series, or the Neumann km140 actives, or the DPA's, or the Milabs :)

Well, yesterday I ran up the new Neumann KM-D series with both omni and cardioid heads (the remote cables and more capsules aka the KM100 series will come next year).

These have the A/D at the capsule (28-Bit).  I tested them via my Grace m902 D/A and a pair of HD 580 headphones.

As a test I just placed them on the desk and added 40dB of digital gain (something you would not really do in practice).  I stopped at 40dB gain because more than that started feedback in the headphones.

At that level the mic noise was very quiet, well below that of any analogue mic. I have heard and all the noise was low frequency and was basically the air movements of the air being pushed around by the central heating system.  Because of the inbuilt digital limiter there was no distortion on high levels when I tested that.

I was most impressed.

Next week I have five days of solo piano recording - Blüthner 9' Concert Grand - Location: Menuhin Hall in Stoke d'Abernon - the first session of what will eventually be a release of five or six CDs.

The recording will be done with the KM 183-Ds directly into the digital input of my Fostex FR-2.  I normally record solo piano with the Sennheiser MKH 20s and I will also be running a pair of those via an A+D DMA-2 into a second FR-2.  I'll report back after the sessions.....
« Last Edit: December 06, 2006, 04:57:06 AM by John Willett »

Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #36 on: December 06, 2006, 07:49:20 AM »
Jason, Next time you rin into Carl Beck ask him about his 4022s. I believe his exact words were "I fucking hated to pieces of freeze-dried dog shit". He has owned Schoeps, AKG 48x's, DPAs and now runs my old c34. When I was looking to put my rig back together I aksed him what he whould do (after he refused to sell me back his (my) c34). He said that with out question he would get Schoeps. In his case mk41's and mk21's ~> CMC6. The Schoeps nay-sayers can piss and moan and -T me all they like but, Save for the WI panic show when security forced me and Charles under the balcony, all of my tapes with my new rig have smoked on all of my playback systems (I ma not trying to brag in the least here but none of them are crap and if a tape blows, I'll hear it...period) The Fabers, Krell/Martin Logan (yes fucking 'stats), HD600 cans, they all kick ass.

There is a reason that so many people run Schoeps and it's B.S. that it's just cause they want to wave their CMC6's around like their cock and the chicks love 'em (well the chicks do think Schoeps are damn sexy, right Stacy? [I won't tell Tim]). It's cause they make damn good tapes. Even more so with the Hess/Kwon DINa bars coming into more widespread use rather than the ORTF bars.

The Milabs are interesting but I don't like what I see on their response chart. I know the 11/4 Panic tapes smoked but most of the other discs I have heard sound just like the graph says they should sound... boosted in the high end.

thanks for the input.  I'm still mulling over all my options, and I haven't decided on anything just yet.  I realize Schoeps are great mics, and I've borrowed them several times in the past when I've needed a low-pro setup.  they are still definitely an option.  but, as has been said before, all the mics I'm thinking about are great mics... The Milabs... yeah, I just haven't heard enough recordings from them to make any sort of informed decision, which is why I'm shying away from those.

Lastly, for now, why a 702? Do a 722. You will thank yourself later, the internal HD is, in my expierence, far more usefull than timecode. The fact that you can use either the INHDD, CF, or EXHDD (of which I have all) simply kicks ass. C-link will take care of most of what you would need the TC for (and you can still synch to an external TC with a BNC cable on a 722 anyway). Trust me, when you are dumping a C-inked 744 14GB files of the SBD+OMNI to your 80gb bus powered EXHDD in 10 min in the hotel so you can go home and do your 6 ch mix at home to compare with your friends FOB DPA 4022>722 (which you will smoke) that you dropped your 8gb flash card in and grabbed abck at the end of the set, all the while having a full backup of your mk4v>kc5>cmc6>V2>722 safely in your INHDD you will be very, very glad you have a 722.

I realize that a 722 offers more options, but things I don't need.  honestly, at this point, I want to spend as little money as possible.  In order to make any sort of switch, I'd have to sell both my V3 and the HD-P2.  selling them both would probably get me $100 of the 702.  but the 722 is $500 more than the 702.  so that's $500 more that I'd have to spend for something I don't need.  I never go on tour, and I rarely tape at festivals, so there's no need for a harddrive.  my 8 gig CF card is good for 4 hours at 24/96, so I'm all set in the media department anyway.  throw in the better battery life (because no HD to spin), and it's an easy choice for me.

I'm still interested in hearing anything that people would like to share about the Schoeps CCM series, or the Neumann km140 actives, or the DPA's, or the Milabs :)

Well, yesterday I ran up the new Neumann KM-D series with both omni and cardioid heads (the remote cables and more capsules aka the KM100 series will come next year).

These have the A/D at the capsule (28-Bit).  I tested them via my Grace m902 D/A and a pair of HD 580 headphones.

As a test I just placed them on the desk and added 40dB of digital gain (something you would not really do in practice).  I stopped at 40dB gain because more than that started feedback in the headphones.

At that level the mic noise was very quiet, well below that of any analogue mic. I have heard and all the noise was low frequency and was basically the air movements of the air being pushed around by the central heating system.  Because of the inbuilt digital limiter there was no distortion on high levels when I tested that.

I was most impressed.

Next week I have five days of solo piano recording - Blüthner 9' Concert Grand - Location: Menuhin Hall in Stoke d'Abernon - the first session of what will eventually be a release of five or six CDs.

The recording will be done with the KM 183-Ds directly into the digital input of my Fostex FR-2.  I normally record solo piano with the Sennheiser MKH 20s and I will also be running a pair of those via an A+D DMA-2 into a second FR-2.  I'll report back after the sessions.....

John -I'm glad that you are happy with your mics, but I'm not interested in them.

Offline nickgregory

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #37 on: December 06, 2006, 08:37:16 AM »
Jason, Next time you rin into Carl Beck ask him about his 4022s. I believe his exact words were "I fucking hated to pieces of freeze-dried dog shit". He has owned Schoeps, AKG 48x's, DPAs and now runs my old c34.

to each their own...honestlyh though I wish AKGs sounded as good as my 4022s, I would love to have less money in my rig and more for other purposes...

Offline scb

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #38 on: December 06, 2006, 08:50:59 AM »
Jason, Next time you rin into Carl Beck ask him about his 4022s. I believe his exact words were "I fucking hated to pieces of freeze-dried dog shit".

if you ever see me, ask me about my 4022s.  i'll sing a different tune

over the years, i've run with or run a bunch of different mics at shows, and i own the 22s because i think they consistently sounded better and more accurate than the others.  these include most akg,schoeps,neumann,gefells that you'll find out there (including tubes)

now i'm not saying that every other mic sucks.  but i've owned my 4022s for coming up on 5 years now, and i've heard nothing out there that makes me want to replace them anytime soon.  the only mics that might make the 22s #2 on any given night are the 4026s :)

Offline Stagger

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #39 on: December 06, 2006, 01:41:27 PM »
I realize that a 722 offers more options, but things I don't need.  honestly, at this point, I want to spend as little money as possible.  In order to make any sort of switch, I'd have to sell both my V3 and the HD-P2.  selling them both would probably get me $100 of the 702.  but the 722 is $500 more than the 702.  so that's $500 more that I'd have to spend for something I don't need.  I never go on tour, and I rarely tape at festivals, so there's no need for a harddrive.  my 8 gig CF card is good for 4 hours at 24/96, so I'm all set in the media department anyway.  throw in the better battery life (because no HD to spin), and it's an easy choice for me.

Then sell the V3 and the HD-P2. Find a V2 like i did (they do pop up now and again). The A>D on the 7xx series is better than on the V3 anyway. Pull up the bootstraps and run XXXMics>722 till you can get another pre-amp you like. Also you can select to record only to the CF card on a 722 and save battery life. I have a CF card forthe 722 and use it when I know the recording will be under 4 hours to save HD life but... I know this the theoretical... just suppose there is an opener you like. With the 702 you are stuck unless you have two CF cards and that's 1/3 of the price difference. Well I suppose you could record 24/48 or 16 bit but WTF?
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Nikon D7000, SB-700, Nikkor 18-200 f3.5-5.6, Nikkor 50 f1.8D, Sigma 10-20 f3.5, and way too many do-dads to list...

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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #40 on: December 06, 2006, 04:46:00 PM »
I realize that a 722 offers more options, but things I don't need.  honestly, at this point, I want to spend as little money as possible.  In order to make any sort of switch, I'd have to sell both my V3 and the HD-P2.  selling them both would probably get me $100 of the 702.  but the 722 is $500 more than the 702.  so that's $500 more that I'd have to spend for something I don't need.  I never go on tour, and I rarely tape at festivals, so there's no need for a harddrive.  my 8 gig CF card is good for 4 hours at 24/96, so I'm all set in the media department anyway.  throw in the better battery life (because no HD to spin), and it's an easy choice for me.

Then sell the V3 and the HD-P2. Find a V2 like i did (they do pop up now and again). The A>D on the 7xx series is better than on the V3 anyway. Pull up the bootstraps and run XXXMics>722 till you can get another pre-amp you like. Also you can select to record only to the CF card on a 722 and save battery life. I have a CF card forthe 722 and use it when I know the recording will be under 4 hours to save HD life but... I know this the theoretical... just suppose there is an opener you like. With the 702 you are stuck unless you have two CF cards and that's 1/3 of the price difference. Well I suppose you could record 24/48 or 16 bit but WTF?

a 722 is just not going to happen.  it's an extra $500 and that's $500 I don't have.  I already have enough CF media (I have a 2 gig, 4 gig, and an 8 gig CF card).  that's enough for any opening + main act.  while the A/D in the SD 7xx units may be better than the V3 A/D, I like my pre-amp better than the internal pres.  in my mind, the pre-amp is more important than the A/D (i.e. I'd rather run a great pre-amp into an OK A/D converter than run an OK pre-amp into a great A/D converter).  so using your logic, I should NOT sell both the V3 + HD-P2 and run the 702 all-in-one until I can afford my pre-amp of choice.  in my mind it's better to wait until I can afford a 702 without having to sell the V3.

I think of all the great advise on this thread, the best advise has actually come from my wife: "why not just stick with what you've got, because you love the way it sounds.  and when you need to, you can borrow a stealth setup"

so that's what I'm going to do.  I'm so happy with the way my recording gear sounds, so I'll probably just sit tight for now.  if the MG nbox becomes a reality, I'll probably jump on that.  but in the meantime, I've actually made it through this period of time of questioning my gear without changing a thing  :)

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #41 on: December 06, 2006, 05:00:27 PM »
while the A/D in the SD 7xx units may be better than the V3 A/D, I like my pre-amp better than the internal pres.  in my mind, the pre-amp is more important than the A/D (i.e. I'd rather run a great pre-amp into an OK A/D converter than run an OK pre-amp into a great A/D converter).  so using your logic, I should NOT sell both the V3 + HD-P2 and run the 702 all-in-one until I can afford my pre-amp of choice.  in my mind it's better to wait until I can afford a 702 without having to sell the V3.

I'd say the 7x2 ADC is different than the V3, not necessarily better.  Depends who you ask, what you're recording, etc.

Anyway, I think you should...

<1>  identify the sonic characteristics you want to change (or maintain) in your lower profile gear and then seek out the gear that meets your profile needs and sonic desires
or
<2>  buy new mics and use your current pre/ADC for a while until you decide what sonic characteristics about the pre/ADC (or even mics, for that matter) you want to change.
or
<3>  buy a new pre/ADC and use your current mics for a while until you decide what sonic characteristics about the mics (or pre/ADC) you want to change.

Shoot...just finished reading your post!  Well, I'll leave my comments above, anyway.  Sounds like you don't have a compelling reason to cahnge, so...excellent move sticking with what you've got.
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Offline BC

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #42 on: December 06, 2006, 05:04:38 PM »

I think of all the great advise on this thread, the best advise has actually come from my wife: "why not just stick with what you've got, because you love the way it sounds.  and when you need to, you can borrow a stealth setup"


Word, and if you are really jonesin for a stealthy rig you could pick up a pair of 4060's to run into your P2. Not sure how much a pair would run and how that fits into your budget...

No, P2 is not super stealthy, but definitely doable.



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Offline JasonSobel

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #43 on: December 06, 2006, 05:29:47 PM »
while the A/D in the SD 7xx units may be better than the V3 A/D, I like my pre-amp better than the internal pres.  in my mind, the pre-amp is more important than the A/D (i.e. I'd rather run a great pre-amp into an OK A/D converter than run an OK pre-amp into a great A/D converter).  so using your logic, I should NOT sell both the V3 + HD-P2 and run the 702 all-in-one until I can afford my pre-amp of choice.  in my mind it's better to wait until I can afford a 702 without having to sell the V3.

I'd say the 7x2 ADC is different than the V3, not necessarily better.  Depends who you ask, what you're recording, etc.

Anyway, I think you should...

<1>  identify the sonic characteristics you want to change (or maintain) in your lower profile gear and then seek out the gear that meets your profile needs and sonic desires
or
<2>  buy new mics and use your current pre/ADC for a while until you decide what sonic characteristics about the pre/ADC (or even mics, for that matter) you want to change.
or
<3>  buy a new pre/ADC and use your current mics for a while until you decide what sonic characteristics about the mics (or pre/ADC) you want to change.

Shoot...just finished reading your post!  Well, I'll leave my comments above, anyway.  Sounds like you don't have a compelling reason to cahnge, so...excellent move sticking with what you've got.


definitely very good advise.  I pretty much went with number 1 "identify the sonic characteristics you want to change (or maintain) in your lower profile gear and then seek out the gear that meets your profile needs and sonic desires" and decided that I don't want to change the sound of my gear one bit.  so until I can afford the 702 without selling the V3, that'll be that.  it'd be nice to also have an option for low-pro mics, but I'm not will to give up the Gefells to get there, is what I realized.

No, P2 is not super stealthy, but definitely doable.

indeed, the HD-P2 is not super stealthy.  but I also realized that I was just being lazy.  the type of shows that I need to stealth, I just need low-pro mics.  the kind of show where I'll be able to "stealth" not just the HD-P2, but the full V3 > HD-P2.  it's just a matter of keeping the mics out of sight.  sure, it'd be easier to just have a 702 to deal with on those occasions, but not neccesary...

Offline Stagger

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #44 on: December 06, 2006, 05:39:15 PM »
Then, indeed, stick with your wife's advice. Wait till you have the cash to do it right or don't do it at all otherwise you are robbing Peter to pay Paul.

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Offline Javier Cinakowski

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Re: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted
« Reply #45 on: December 06, 2006, 06:34:45 PM »
Shit, keep your gear and buy a stealth rig

DPA->CA9100->iRiver

Cheap and now you have the rig you love and a good steath rig....
Neumann KM185mp OR DPA ST2015-> Grace Design Lunatec V2-> Tascam DR-100mkIII

 

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