Topic: my next mics: DPA's? Schoeps? Neumann? Milabs? other? opinions wanted

[shaggy]

Jason,

Are you trying to achieve a small compact rig for ease of transport and setup OR do you have some plans for incognito taping?  As far as I know from playing around with various schemes for taping on the sly, I find Schoeps the best choice for flexibility beyond Brian's suggestion of cap interchangability.  To the point, I think that if you are truly thinking of a Kangol type of set up...Freelunch's lexan/cable holder/thumbscrew set up can not be beat.  Pair that up with the mk4vs with a KCY cable and the caps sit real naturally in the brim of the Kangol without the cables acting all weird and bits poking out.  Also, one cable is easier to deal with than two. 

KM140 with LC3KAs are a hassle, the cables are a mess.  You have to be methodical about putting them away.  I think if you were to go that route, I would suggest getting the lemo connector mod from Neumann USA so you can work with the cable without the mic body connection ends flying around....the problem is the kinks that form when the cable is twisted.  The mod also allows you to flexibility to use a SX-M2/LS or /LS2.

I know nothing about running 402Xs, and not as flame: I have to say that I have heard more bad sounding 402X tapes than good ones...maybe due to room/PA, location, mic orientation or whatever.  So, to me they seem to be less forgiving mics in bad environments than the others you have mentioned.

I remember someone saying quite sometime ago that MG was planning to make an active system for their 200 series caps.  Is this still a rumour or a pipe-dream?

[~~~>]

Friends don't let friends buy Schoeps.   

In all seriousness I'd say the 140's (the best all around mic IMO) or some 4022's (but I'm biased)

[JasonSobel]

ok, lot's of good stuff here.

first off, I heard back from Nick, and now I'm feeling much more optimistic about the MG nbox:

If all goes well we should have it going before the new year.  I will keep you posted.

so it looks like I'll just sit tight for another month or two, and buy the nbox to run with my Microtech Gefells.

Are you trying to achieve a small compact rig for ease of transport and setup OR do you have some plans for incognito taping?

a combination of the two.  thanks for the tips about the hat setup.  although I must say that I've borrowed a mk4/kc5/cmc6 setup to run in a kangol, and the two wires weren't that big of a deal to me.  I don't see how the km140 active setup would be any different, but maybe I'm missing something.

I remember someone saying quite sometime ago that MG was planning to make an active system for their 200 series caps.  Is this still a rumour or a pipe-dream?

as far as I know MG was never planning to make an active system themselves.  but there was talk of Nick making an nbox that would run the MG caps instead of the Schoeps caps.  it looks like that will finally be coming to fruition sooner rather than later

[MULETAPER]

Like I said before Jason,if you ever decide to let them go down the line PM me...They would go to a good home

[jlykos]

One of the key benefits of the Gefells is the fact that you can run different caps.  I have the hypers and omnis and the M27 omni caps are absolutely incredible and are worth it for me not to run anything else.  I have heard many, many Scheops tapes and while many of them sound excellent, they have an unnatural amount of bass and the voicing often seems too strident, IMHO.  If there was a way of getting active Gefells with the option of changing the caps, that would be outstanding.

An issue with the Gefell caps as well is the staggering amount of money they cost.  I have been looking for a pair of M20 card caps and have not seen them for under $1000 a pair new.  Very few people run these so they do not show up used as well.

Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best," without having a clue in the world of how to run them.  That said, I really do not like how they highlight every detail of a bad-sounding room, even among skilled tapers.

Personally, I would stick with the Gefells, or try to run an NBox with them or something.  I would not sacrifice the sound quality of these mics over anything else.

[scb]

Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best,"

i think that's a bit ridiculous

[JasonSobel]

If there was a way of getting active Gefells with the option of changing the caps, that would be outstanding.

Personally, I would stick with the Gefells, or try to run an NBox with them or something.  I would not sacrifice the sound quality of these mics over anything else.

the nbox would be a way to run the Gefells with active cables.  it seems like that is going to happen sooner rather than later, and that's what I'll go for.  the question then becomes, how similar to the sms2000 bodies will the nbox sound (because when using the nbox, it's just the caps straight to the nbox, no mic bodies involved).

Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best,"

i think that's a bit ridiculous

An issue with the Gefell caps as well is the staggering amount of money they cost.  I have been looking for a pair of M20 card caps and have not seen them for under $1000 a pair new.  Very few people run these so they do not show up used as well.

yeah, at this point, all the mic options are great and the differences between them are a matter of taste.  that said, they are all also very expensive.  some options more-so than others.  but I don't really want to get into cost considerations just yet.  this thread is mostly to gather opinions and for me to "think out loud" about my options.  of course, cost will have to be a consideration when it comes down to my final choice, but I don't want to think about that just yet.

now, a little side-thought about the NBOX.  obviously no one has ever run one with the MG caps.  Tim has a JK Labs box that runs the MG caps, and he cannot tell the difference between it and the sms2000 mic bodies.  but we've never done a side-by-side comp and anyway, the nbox will probably sound different from his JK Labs box.  so, for the schoeps nbox, has any done a direct comparison between the mk4 > nbox and the mk4 > kc5 > cmc6 ??  many people are happy with the sound of the nbox behind their schoeps, but really and in actuality, is it indistinguishable from the cmc6 bodies??  or how about a ccm4 vs. mk4 > nbox ??  anyone ever done a direct comparison?

[Brian Skalinder]

so, for the schoeps nbox, has any done a direct comparison between the mk4 > nbox and the mk4 > kc5 > cmc6 ??  many people are happy with the sound of the nbox behind their schoeps, but really and in actuality, is it indistinguishable from the cmc6 bodies??  or how about a ccm4 vs. mk4 > nbox ??  anyone ever done a direct comparison?

There's no way to accomplish a truly direct comparison between the CMC6 mic bodies and the NBox because the NBox acts as mic bodies and preamp.  In other words, there's no way to isolate the "mic body" circuitry in the NBox.  The only comparisons we can make are MKx > NBox v. MKx/CMC6 > preamp or CCMx > preamp.  FWIW, my ears hear a distinct difference between the MKx > NBox and MKx > Lemosax, the only real direct comparison I've done.  And based on plenty of listening, though not direct comparisons, I hear a distinct difference between MKx > NBox and MKx/CMC6 > V3.

[jlykos]

Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best,"

i think that's a bit ridiculous

You should meet some of the yo-yos I see at some of these shows.  Not giving you or Nick a bad name here; lots of people's tapes are outstanding with them.  I have run into some people who spent thousands on mics because "everybody says they're the best."  Maybe not coincidentally, these tapes are not the best.

[scb]

Lots of people buy dpa mics because they have too much money or whatever and want to only buy "the best,"

i think that's a bit ridiculous

You should meet some of the yo-yos I see at some of these shows.  Not giving you or Nick a bad name here; lots of people's tapes are outstanding with them.  I have run into some people who spent thousands on mics because "everybody says they're the best."  Maybe not coincidentally, these tapes are not the best.

well lots of people do that with "shopes" and "new-mans" too

[nickgregory]

and some who fall in the same boat would say 480s sound like 4022s

[BC]

and some who fall in the same boat would say 480s sound like 4022s

That's because they run 480's.          

[JasonSobel]

so, for the schoeps nbox, has any done a direct comparison between the mk4 > nbox and the mk4 > kc5 > cmc6 ??  many people are happy with the sound of the nbox behind their schoeps, but really and in actuality, is it indistinguishable from the cmc6 bodies??  or how about a ccm4 vs. mk4 > nbox ??  anyone ever done a direct comparison?

There's no way to accomplish a truly direct comparison between the CMC6 mic bodies and the NBox because the NBox acts as mic bodies and preamp.  In other words, there's no way to isolate the "mic body" circuitry in the NBox.  The only comparisons we can make are MKx > NBox v. MKx/CMC6 > preamp or CCMx > preamp.  FWIW, my ears hear a distinct difference between the MKx > NBox and MKx > Lemosax, the only real direct comparison I've done.

good point about that.  for the schoeps version, how much gain does the nbox provide?  is it variable?  that also brings up another interesting point, what we routinely call "mic bodies", most manufacturers refer to as an "amplifier" or a "pre-amp", although the mics still output a signal that needs gain before being recorded. (if you look at the schoeps website, it says the the CMC series consist of "a microphone capsule and amplifier").  so, is the NBOX a pre-amp in the sense that mic bodies are pre-amps.  or is the NBOX a pre-amp in the sense a Grace V2 or Sonosax SX-M2 or all the other pre-amps.  does the NBOX output a mic level signal that still needs more gain, or a line level signal?

And based on plenty of listening, though not direct comparisons, I hear a distinct difference between MKx > NBox and MKx/CMC6 > V3.

when the MG nbox becomes available, I wonder if it'll make my gefell caps sound spitty ?? 

side note - this thread is now veering towards a discussion about the schoeps NBOX characteristics, which may or may not be similar to an currently unheard Gefell NBOX.  while this discussion is certainly interesting to me, because I'd like to get the MG NBOX when it becomes available (hopefully in the near future), I'm still interested in hearing anything that people would like to share about the Schoeps CCM series, or the Neumann km140 actives, or the DPA's, or the Milabs

[Brian Skalinder]

for the schoeps version, how much gain does the nbox provide?  is it variable?

Dunno how much gain.  Nick's on here, I think as user schoepsnbox.  AFAIK, it's typically fixed gain, but apparently a variable gain model is also available, as someone here has one.  There's also an Nbox+ now available, if I recall correctly.

so, is the NBOX a pre-amp in the sense that mic bodies are pre-amps.  or is the NBOX a pre-amp in the sense a Grace V2 or Sonosax SX-M2 or all the other pre-amps.

Both.

does the NBOX output a mic level signal that still needs more gain, or a line level signal?

Line level.

[it-goes-to-eleven]

20dB of gain from the nbox.  Fluffhead has a version with variable pots.  But I THINK they may be attenuation and not amplification beyond the 20.. I believe he has the pots to make it easier to run into an ad1k, etc.  These days I much prefer stepped pots to variable.

The nbox is based on the RMOD.. The RMOD is reputed to be tuned specifically for mk4 caps.  So I would expect there might be some tweaking to optimize for the MG. I would say that the construction of the rmod is somewhat different than the nbox and they are definitely not the same.  I've never compared the sound.

Ultimately, I really want to build an MG RMOD but it all takes lots of time...