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Gear / Technical Help => Recording Gear => Topic started by: dogmusic on September 16, 2011, 10:11:02 AM
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Another new contender in the handheld digital 4-track recorder market:
http://tascam.com/product/dr-40/
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Maximum Input Level
-3dBV (MIC) / +20dBu (LINE)
Not bad...
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Unfortunately, only one mic/line-in, i.e., have to use built-in mics for second pair of tracks.
But only $199.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005N3ME4O/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=pixacomcom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B005N3ME4O
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Only 3 AA cell internal battery. Tascam claims 15 hours battery life, but not while providing 48V phantom power to mics.
Also announced, the BP-6AA, an external battery that holds (you guessed it) six AAs.
Flintstone
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How loudly does this community have to yell before these guys will hear us...
DIGITAL SPDIF INPUTS on a reliable low cost handheld pu-LEEZE!!!
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So it has balanced line in /mic inputs. But does it provide any phantom power?
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So it has balanced line in /mic inputs. But does it provide any phantom power?
"A pair of great-sounding TASCAM microphone preamps welcome condenser microphones with phantom power"
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Wow, first Roland, now Tascam. Cool! I really like the 'dual record' feature on my dr-2d, where another file can be recorded at lower volume. It is nice to see that carried over. Also nice to see the battery life improved over it's predecessor. It also looks like you can monitor and adjust input gain on all 4-channels on the fly, something you couldn't do on the older unit. I think Tascam is listening!
I wonder how good those internal cards will be? Probably not great in a $199 handheld. It would be really cool if those internal mics could be modded to something better, than you'd have the ultimate all in one.
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First Roland and now Tascam, both look like Zoom's H4n features set, the Tascam even looks very similar with better built materials (at least it looks that way)... 4 tracks (the roland has 2 extra omnis), XLR+internals or pip externals, is this a trend?
And when it was released the H4n was some how, a copy of the D50 with XLR 48v... Who's next? Edirol stopped, now that Roland assumed the market, Olympus? they like to built small, way too small... perhaps Fostex? they never entered this market... or even Marantz...
I would like to hear noise preamps comparisons on this 2 new decks... once they hit the market... even internal mics, because for me, this decks are all about all in one recorder, for using the internals plus a extra pair whenever is required... not to go around with 4 external mics...
One thing, Tascam has covered every possible angle on this market... they have almost 10 recorders, very similar, a big mess... it's like saying we've invented home recording 30 years ago, but we slept during the last 10, but now we're back on track... let's flood it...
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First Roland and now Tascam, both look like Zoom's H4n features set
Is it just me that has a hard time qualifying any of these units as 4-track. ::) Who really wants this feature set.
Don't mean to be a downer but geez, why don't manufactures actually deliver some true 4-track units like the Edirol now Roland R4/R44 & Sound Devices 744. Tascam's got their DR 680 too but that's more than 4-track.
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$199?? That's ridiculous, assuming it works as well as it looks. Given the phantom inputs and the rest of the feature set, doesn't this make the M10 look a bit expensive now? Or, for that matter, the H2N (same price)?
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Unfortunately, only one mic/line-in, i.e., have to use built-in mics for second pair of tracks.
But only $199.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005N3ME4O/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=pixacomcom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B005N3ME4O
The inability to do line and external mic makes the dr-2d a better choice for most of us. I really like that recorder and wonder why more people aren't running it.
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How loudly does this community have to yell before these guys will hear us...
DIGITAL SPDIF INPUTS on a reliable low cost handheld pu-LEEZE!!!
x2
If the dr40 could be used with line in and xlr in AND control individually 4 channels, I'd be happy too.
It seems like the manufacturers know what they are doing but why can't they release something just a little be above the current products.
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Wow, first Roland, now Tascam. Cool! I really like the 'dual record' feature on my dr-2d, where another file can be recorded at lower volume. It is nice to see that carried over. Also nice to see the battery life improved over it's predecessor. It also looks like you can monitor and adjust input gain on all 4-channels on the fly, something you couldn't do on the older unit. I think Tascam is listening!
I wonder how good those internal cards will be? Probably not great in a $199 handheld. It would be really cool if those internal mics could be modded to something better, than you'd have the ultimate all in one.
Except that the Roland is $499, can be used as a USB interface, and probably has a few more features and probably better preamps.
However, at $200 the DR40 will redefine that part of the market, especially for videographers. You can have the unit on camera using its mics (in a DSLR shoe) and still have two lavs connected.
Now...if they had an HDMI recorder for $400...
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and probably has a few more features
6 tracks
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Only 3 AA cell internal battery. Tascam claims 15 hours battery life, but not while providing 48V phantom power to mics.
Also announced, the BP-6AA, an external battery that holds (you guessed it) six AAs.
My guess is that P48 draw will zapp the internals in less than 120 minutes.
The selling point of an all-in-one with phantom XLR would be the freedom from carrying extra boxes. If I'd need to buy/carry external power, there's nothing unique about it.
How about an all-in-one with a 2x9V battery bay, or a custom high-voltage li-ion battery (like the tinybox)? 8)
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How about an all-in-one with.. a custom high-voltage li-ion battery (like the tinybox)? 8)
The Microtracker and Korg do.
With all the gear that runs various multiples of 2 AAs, some one should manufacture a 3V(nomional) LI-ion that is packaged into an envelope the size of two AAs connected side by side, along one edge. It's housing would look slightly figure-8ish viewed end on, so that it would slip into standard AA battery holders which often have short partial wall dividers between cells but rarely have completely seperated cell compartments. In addition to the standard LI-ion voltage regulation circuitry, it would need some sort of internal switching to automatically sense the short at one end of the pack and switch to using the terminals on the other end when inserted into the device. Besides getting enough power density, that 'short sense circuit' is the only challenging part, but it's a feature that would make it safe, short-proof and user friendly. Use two for devices that take 4AAs, 3 for 6AAs, etc. Pop them out and recharge.
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also no 88.2 kHz recording. This seems silly to me.
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Man tapers are a hard bunch to please. :P
The microtrack comes out and everyone complains that it doesn't use AA batteries that are universal and field replaceable. Now people see them in this Tascam and want an internal Li-ion solution. Lots and lots of handhelds use only 1/8" inputs and people complain that they want a locking XLR input. This one comes out, and nobody is interested. People complain about poor battery life or low max input (this one has 15 hour battery life and takes 20dbV) and again, no love.
This probably isn't a recorder I'm interested in, but I would think it might fit the bill as a 2ch recorder, at least for some. It takes a hot signal, has XLR inputs, and good battery life. Most people don't seem quite satisfied with a handheld as an all-in-one solution, but if you want it for that, it'll do it.
As to battery life as an all-in-one, they say 15 hour battery life, presumably that is without phantom, so say it draws about 200mA. It uses 3x AA batteries, so considering that and a reasonably efficient DC-DC converter to get up to 48v, phantom power for a couple of condenser mics might add another 150ma or so -- all told, this should provide 6-8 hours of use even with phantom on.
For what we do, I think the DR2d is better as a 4ch recorder, but for a 2ch recorder, this seems like a good option, especially for the people who feel they are more comfortable with a recorder that offers locking XLR inputs.
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Man tapers are a hard bunch to please. :P
And Dead Head tapers are even harder to please ;D
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If it gets better battery life than the 100, then I think it will do ok. The 100 is the only loser they've had in the last 5 years. The 40 is almost a re-do, but with 4 channels.
That said, Tascam should have added spdif to the 40. The technology is not foreign to them, for the 2 channel P2 has been out since '05. Makes no sense to me. More I think about it, I bet the Ipad will get spdif before Tascam's handhelds. Tascam's new product strategy is that pathetic. ::)
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all told, this should provide 6-8 hours of use even with phantom on.
I agree, but probably below 6 hours depending on mics and battery type. I have tested my Marantz PMD-661 (4 AAs) with both Energizer "Advanced" and "Ultimate" Lithium batteries and got just over 7 & 8 hours respectively @ 24/48 while running phantom with my DPA 4022 mics. I would be curious what the stock pres sound like for $200...
-james
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as parts become better and cheaper every year, eventually someone will make one of these things that is on the quality line of the Sony D1...but for $199.
If the preamps on this were nothing special, but clean...i'd be content.
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How loudly does this community have to yell before these guys will hear us...
DIGITAL SPDIF INPUTS on a reliable low cost handheld pu-LEEZE!!!
Hallelujah to that!
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Only 3 AA cell internal battery. Tascam claims 15 hours battery life, but not while providing 48V phantom power to mics.
Also announced, the BP-6AA, an external battery that holds (you guessed it) six AAs.
My guess is that P48 draw will zapp the internals in less than 120 minutes.
The selling point of an all-in-one with phantom XLR would be the freedom from carrying extra boxes. If I'd need to buy/carry external power, there's nothing unique about it.
How about an all-in-one with a 2x9V battery bay, or a custom high-voltage li-ion battery (like the tinybox)? 8)
When I got my DR-40 I did a test with the internal AA batteries. Continuous run time recording with the P48 turned on was 3 hours 15 minutes. Honestly I was surprised it lasted as long as it did. Was expecting about 2 hours.
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Unfortunately, only one mic/line-in, i.e., have to use built-in mics for second pair of tracks.
But only $199.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005N3ME4O/ref=as_li_ss_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=pixacomcom-20&linkCode=as2&camp=217145&creative=399373&creativeASIN=B005N3ME4O
The Sony PCM-M10 can be had for $229 from an authorized dealer if you shop. I love mine.
Built in mics (on the Tascam or virtually any other of these hand held recorders) are not good for audience recording, but only for recording practice in your living room, or spoken word, or discussions around a conference table.
Built in mics? It's like ordering a $100 dish at a fancy restaurant and thinking you've gotten a deal because it comes with a free side dish of dog turd.
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Got a soundpro email today that says you can get this for $149.99 with instant $50 gift card. It says today only.
http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/TAS-DR-40
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OK, I've bought one as a secondary recorder. No way it will replace my beloved R-44 but I wanted XLR with P48 and 1/4 TRS inputs for various setups I have at times. We'll see how it works out but at $170 shipped, I can't argue too much unless it is total crap. The dual level recording is interesting depending on how decent the internal mics are.
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When I got my DR-40 I did a test with the internal AA batteries. Continuous run time recording with the P48 turned on was 3 hours 15 minutes. Honestly I was surprised it lasted as long as it did. Was expecting about 2 hours.
What mics were you using when you did that test?
OK, I've bought one as a secondary recorder. No way it will replace my beloved R-44 but I wanted XLR with P48 and 1/4 TRS inputs for various setups I have at times. We'll see how it works out but at $170 shipped, I can't argue too much unless it is total crap. The dual level recording is interesting depending on how decent the internal mics are.
Any thoughts on the sound? Build quality?
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OK, I've bought one as a secondary recorder. No way it will replace my beloved R-44 but I wanted XLR with P48 and 1/4 TRS inputs for various setups I have at times. We'll see how it works out but at $170 shipped, I can't argue too much unless it is total crap. The dual level recording is interesting depending on how decent the internal mics are.
Any thoughts on the sound? Build quality?
It hasn't been delivered yet. Its somewhere between San Diego and Tallahassee. I expect it to show up sometime next week. The one I saw in the field seemed to be built well. I'll probably get the battery sled and remote later on.
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^^^ I didn't realize it wasn't in your possession as of yet. I'm curious to hear your thoughts, though, once you get your hands on it and have a chance to take a test drive...
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When I got my DR-40 I did a test with the internal AA batteries. Continuous run time recording with the P48 turned on was 3 hours 15 minutes. Honestly I was surprised it lasted as long as it did. Was expecting about 2 hours.
What mics were you using when you did that test?
My initial test was with AT853 powered with P48 driving the 8531 power module. Since then I've had the opportunity to run Busman BSC-2s for 2:40 with plenty of batteries left.
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impressive.
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Well, I'm amazed that the recorder showed up yesterday, I wasn't expecting it until next week. I haven't had time to absorb the manual yet but a few things right off. Its plastic of course but seems well built, the XLRs are Neutrik for example. The only weak spot I see is the mics but the pivot is solid feeling. I took it to the club with me last night and I accidentally did a stress test right off as it vibrated off where I had is stashed and fell about three feet to concrete. I can't even find a scuff mark. I guess another stress test was the shipping because the package was torn up when I got it.
Most of the normal settings are intuitive enough but I did have to dig into the manual to set up the dual record function. I ran just the internal mics in X-Y back in the audience area. I haven't woken up enough to deal with it yet but a quick listen with headphones last night didn't sound all that bad but not great. How much of that had to do with the mics and how much had to do with placement I can't say yet. I'll try to get a friend's recording from a nearby location as a comparison, he was running CA-14 cards>CA-9100>R-09. My other recording was matrix of my ADK-tl's at stage lip and a full matrix of each individual channel of the main console mixed down to stereo on the fly on my own board.
This may have shown up at the perfect time as one of the channels of my R-44 started acting up last night. It may have to go in for repairs as I need it ready for festival season. I can't complain, it has logged hundreds of shows now in all sorts of conditions.
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Here's a song from last night recorded on the DR-40, Internal mics, X-Y, placed on a shelf behind the bar approx. centered with the stage, recorded at 48kHz/24 bit, dithered down to 44.1/16 but no other changes: http://yodaslai.ipower.com/bradfordvilleblues/media/TASCAM_0002S12.wav
Sorry, at 12 minutes its kind of big but I'm posting it for someone else for other reasons (friggin' hot guitar!). The mix was a bit tinny to start with but hopefully this will give you some idea about the mics.
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Does anyone know if the DR-40 has different preamps than the DR-100mkII? I figure it would because of the price difference. I guess I am trying to figure out how these two products differ (besides the "4 track" capabilities on the DR-40) when they were released pretty much at the same time
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Does anyone remember a couple of years ago someone hacked a Zoom H2 by disconnecting the internal mics and adding external connections so it became a real 4 channel recorder? I'd like to see that happen here.
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Does anyone remember a couple of years ago someone hacked a Zoom H2 by disconnecting the internal mics and adding external connections so it became a real 4 channel recorder? I'd like to see that happen here.
I would love to see that hack for the dr-40.
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There's a YouTube video of the H2 hack. Chris Church looked into modding the H2 for four external mics and decided it wasn't worth it. The plan Chris was going to use sounded much more elegant than the gross hack you see on YouTube.
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I would pick the DR2D over this just for the mere fact you can actually do 4 channels on the DR2D. Not to mention its almost $100 cheaper than this sucka :)
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I would pick the DR2D over this just for the mere fact you can actually do 4 channels on the DR2D. Not to mention its almost $100 cheaper than this sucka :)
It all depends on what you are looking for. The DR2D is cool and I may end up with sooner or later but the DR-40 gave me XLR connections and phantom power plus 1/4 TRS for my regular board connection.
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I would pick the DR2D over this just for the mere fact you can actually do 4 channels on the DR2D. Not to mention its almost $100 cheaper than this sucka :)
It all depends on what you are looking for. The DR2D is cool and I may end up with sooner or later but the DR-40 gave me XLR connections and phantom power plus 1/4 TRS for my regular board connection.
Yup. Balanced and rugged XLR connection, 1/4 TRS and phantom were all reasons I picked the '40. I picked up mine for 150, so the price difference wasn't a factor. Plus, I really don't trust mini-jacks.
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Just got mine yesterday, did battery test today. AT897's into deck, no phantom power got 8 hours strait with Maxell alkaline's that came with deck.
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I've run mine the last three nights using a cheap cell phone charger for an AC power supply. It worked fine and didn't cost me the $40 or whatever Tascam wants for theirs. Now I need to find a rechargeable battery that puts out USB power. I know they make them but haven't shopped for one yet.
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I've run mine the last three nights using a cheap cell phone charger for an AC power supply. It worked fine and didn't cost me the $40 or whatever Tascam wants for theirs. Now I need to find a rechargeable battery that puts out USB power. I know they make them but haven't shopped for one yet.
Walter, just get one of these. I used it for the Tascam DR-1 to charge it's battery on the fly. Perfect for Wanee.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AA-Battery-USB-Emergency-Backup-Power-and-Charger-Pack-/330673357722?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item4cfdab039a#ht_5607wt_1396
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Now I need to find a rechargeable battery that puts out USB power.
I've been using this to power my Sound Devices USBPre2, and it works pretty well.
http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-XP4001-Universal-Rechargeable-Power/dp/B0029U2WUA
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I've run mine the last three nights using a cheap cell phone charger for an AC power supply. It worked fine and didn't cost me the $40 or whatever Tascam wants for theirs. Now I need to find a rechargeable battery that puts out USB power. I know they make them but haven't shopped for one yet.
Walter, just get one of these. I used it for the Tascam DR-1 to charge it's battery on the fly. Perfect for Wanee.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/AA-Battery-USB-Emergency-Backup-Power-and-Charger-Pack-/330673357722?pt=Video_Games_Accessories&hash=item4cfdab039a#ht_5607wt_1396
Noted and I may get one or two as emergency backups but I was thinking more along the lines of one of the DVD batteries but with a USB power output.
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Now I need to find a rechargeable battery that puts out USB power.
I've been using this to power my Sound Devices USBPre2, and it works pretty well.
http://www.amazon.com/Energizer-XP4001-Universal-Rechargeable-Power/dp/B0029U2WUA
That's the idea! Thanks
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So I've skimmed the thread and didn't find an answer. Can you run this line in on the XLR's and line in on the 1/8 input?? Also can you adjust the levels on the XLRs and 1/8 input when recordering. I'm going to buy a Dr 2d, but wondered if this would work better for 4 channel. TIA
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Can you run this line in on the XLR's and line in on the 1/8 input??
This deck's only inputs are via the XLR & 1/4" combo jack so the only way to run 4 channels is using the internal mics for 2 of them. If you want 2 external sources the DR-2D is your machine.
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Just getting into taping, and I'm considering picking up one of these machines. I'll be running a pair of Nak 100's into the XLR inputs; the Naks will run on 9v batteries, so shouldn't need to fuss with phantom power in the meantime. Not really concerned about running anything more than two-channel at present.
Will this deck be fairly quality?
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I've only run mine with line-in so far but plan on using it with mics this weekend.
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I'm very happy with mine, I mainly run line in, but I occasionally use it with a pair of Behringer C2 cardioids on phantom power, and get about 5 hours use.
Get yourself some good re-chargable batteries, preferably the hybrid type, Eneloop, Hybrio etc, and you'll get a good long battery life when not using phantom power.
Jon
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I'm probably going to pick up a Tekkeon portable battery to run with it; that way, I can have hours of continuous power.
Thanks for the help!
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I get over 13 hours with a set of freshly charged Eneloops when recording without phantom power, and about 5 hours with a pair of Behringer C2's with phantom power on.
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I got my hands on one of these to play around with and maybe use as a backup. I did a few quick noise comparisons versus my Oade Concert Mod Marantz PMD-661. Not sure how scientific this is but here's what I did to find the "real world" noise floor of each deck. I recorded four, 10-second clips from each deck with nothing connected to the input:
1) Line with input at 0
2) Line with input at max
3) Mic w/ Phantom with input at 0
4) Mic w/ Phantom with input at max
I then opened up the clips and analyzed them for RMS signal. Results are rounded to the nearest dB:
661/DR-40
1) -73/-84
2) -73/-80
3) -73/-84
4) -53/-48
From this it looks like the Tascam takes the modded 661 for everything except Mic w/ Phantom at max gain :o Listening back to the clips via headphones confirmed the numbers. In fact the background hiss is just as bad as the 661 at full gain, just a different type of "sizzle". I would say that this deck certainly for Line-in purposes and even Mic w/ Phantom (for louder sources anyway) can't be beat for the price. Not sure how the ADC compares though...
-james