Topic: I need help with my first pair of mics

[AmazingPudding]

I am putting together my first rig and I am very confused about what type of mics to buy. The ones I am familiar with that are popular here with other tapers are a little out of my budget (Schoepps MK22, AKG C414). As I look at new mics, I just dont know what model or type of condenser to buy. The only thing I do know is I like the cardiod pattern. I am budgeting $1000 for a PAIR of mics with the capsule and the base(that may be the wrong word but you know what I mean). I am apprehensive about buying used mics as this is the most intimate part of the rig. That being said, I am open to all suggestions even if you think I should buy used sets of the above mentioned mics.

[jbell]

Are you looking for full bodies or remote capsules?

I am putting together my first rig and I am very confused about what type of mics to buy. The ones I am familiar with that are popular here with other tapers are a little out of my budget (Schoepps MK22, AKG C414). As I look at new mics, I just dont know what model or type of condenser to buy. The only thing I do know is I like the cardiod pattern. I am budgeting $1000 for a PAIR of mics with the capsule and the base(that may be the wrong word but you know what I mean). I am apprehensive about buying used mics as this is the most intimate part of the rig. That being said, I am open to all suggestions even if you think I should buy used sets of the above mentioned mics.

[aosone]

Just get a pair of small diaphragm condensers. You don't need to spend a fortune before you get experience.

[AmazingPudding]

Are you looking for full bodies or remote capsules?

I am not sure. What's the difference? Is one better than the other for audience recording?

I am putting together my first rig and I am very confused about what type of mics to buy. The ones I am familiar with that are popular here with other tapers are a little out of my budget (Schoepps MK22, AKG C414). As I look at new mics, I just dont know what model or type of condenser to buy. The only thing I do know is I like the cardiod pattern. I am budgeting $1000 for a PAIR of mics with the capsule and the base(that may be the wrong word but you know what I mean). I am apprehensive about buying used mics as this is the most intimate part of the rig. That being said, I am open to all suggestions even if you think I should buy used sets of the above mentioned mics.

[Fatah Ruark (aka MIKE B)]

You have MANY options in the $1000 range.

This thread is slightly dated, but should help:

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=35004.0

I would look up some recordings made at venue's you plan on recording at, and find recordings made with mics in your price range and start listening. The Live Music Archive is your friend.

[PeteJE]

The Sennheiser MKH series (MKH40 = card.) are also an excellent choice.  Schoeps are popular for a good reason - they are hard to beat in quality and sound (my first choice in this higher end condenser mic range).  AKG 414s are good, but sonically not my preference (although some vintage versions were outstanding). 

All of these are not, in any way, going to be a very portable set up.  They require GOOD 48V phantom (don't expect onboard phantom on some of the portable recorders to be adequate), and mic pre's to realize their full potential.  You will just not get results that justify the mic without equal quality power and amplification - plugging these into an H4, for example, IMO, is just going to be a waste of time and money.

The best way to proceed is to clearly define your goals for recording.  These mics are very good choices and well worth the money, but a bit of the wrong choice if portable, on the move, or stealth recording is desired.  They will only be as good as the situation lets them (set up, mic placement, environment).  If they are mis-matched to your goals or situation you will likely end up disappointed.  Equally good results can be had in location or portable environments with some of the higher end portable electret condensers as mentioned here.  Open taping venues, or for your own studio or practice or more controlled environments - the higher end condensers are a great choice. 

Also, there are many rental options (depending on your location) to try these various mics out first - a set of any of the above, high-end condensers are only ~10 - 20 a day with a 3day billing for a full week from most places around here (although I am in L.A. that has a large market for recording equipment and multiple rental outfits).

[OOK]

I am putting together my first rig and I am very confused about what type of mics to buy. The ones I am familiar with that are popular here with other tapers are a little out of my budget (Schoepps MK22, AKG C414). As I look at new mics, I just dont know what model or type of condenser to buy. The only thing I do know is I like the cardiod pattern. I am budgeting $1000 for a PAIR of mics with the capsule and the base(that may be the wrong word but you know what I mean). I am apprehensive about buying used mics as this is the most intimate part of the rig. That being said, I am open to all suggestions even if you think I should buy used sets of the above mentioned mics.

Bussman small condensers............full set of caps....great starter mics......great mics period.......500$ for the pair plus you get omnis, cards, wide cards and hyper caps....again all for 500$.....

http://www.busmanaudio.com/

They will keep there value if you decide your not really into recording.....once you get some experience and you get bit by upgrade fever.....then make the jump to something more pricey....but pricey doesn't mean better....there is a lot more involved in pulling a good recording than just mics....location, acoustics, the mix coming through the pa. etc etc....  If it sounds like shit...you will record shit no matter what mic your using.......  get the busmans and use the money saved to buy tickets....

Peace OOK

[PeteJE]

Those Bussman's look like a great alternative.  I love the stereo mic - could be great for M/S recordings in one package.  Wonder how they are, sonically. 

[newplanet7]

In the other thread you mentioned your prefferences being neumanns, akg, and schoeps.
Cross the schoeps off. Neumanns will still be tough for 1000 but can be had used.
Now you mention you are wary of buying used mics. I would recommend buying used here in our yard sale.
If you are dead set against used, this will limit you even more.

Are you going to be open taping? I take it yes with you looking into the 414's, which aren't going to happen new or used for $1000
NEW
-If you go new look into listening to some samples of Beyerdynamics MC930's. These can be had new for around $700. 
They sound great. They are non modular though, meaning it's a fixed cardioid cap on the preamp.
-Also, as suggested above, NEW would be a pair of the Busman Mics. I think they run $450ish for a set that includes the bodies and four sets of caps,
shock mounts, and a t-bar.
-Another set of mics that you could easily obtain would be Studio Project c4's. A ton of folks STARTED with these here BUT upgraded thereafter.
I might skip these because you will upgrade from these fairly quick IMO. Pesently in our YS used
-There are also some of Audio Technica(AT) mics that can be had for under $1000. You should research those also.

USED opens it up quite a bit. I would buy used here in our yardsale.
Depending on what's available:
-AKG se391's with two sets of caps for under $1000 can be had. I initially started out with these but upgraded soon after. There are tons of samples
of these on Live Music archive.
-AKG c460b with a set of caps for under $1000 can be had. These are what I moved into and will be keepers for me. Love them.
Also modular, so you can add hypers and omni's later on.
-Neumanns KM184 cards. I dig these personally. Non modular/fixed cardioid. Presently in out YS for $900. http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=139644.0

These are just a few suggestions that will give you some nice sound.

[aosone]

Those Bussman's look like a great alternative.  I love the stereo mic - could be great for M/S recordings in one package.  Wonder how they are, sonically.

I have a few M/S mics (Sony ECM-999; Shure VP-88, and a couple of others). I use them with a Sound Devices MP-2 and have been quite happy with the results. The major advantages are pattern adjustment and fewer cables, stands, etc.

[PeteJE]

Those Bussman's look like a great alternative.  I love the stereo mic - could be great for M/S recordings in one package.  Wonder how they are, sonically.

I have a few M/S mics (Sony ECM-999; Shure VP-88, and a couple of others). I use them with a Sound Devices MP-2 and have been quite happy with the results. The major advantages are pattern adjustment and fewer cables, stands, etc.

A good M/S recording is hard to beat for dimensionality.  Not always the right choice for a live music recording, but I really love this technique and results when I have used it for various things.

[newplanet7]

Those Bussman's look like a great alternative.  I love the stereo mic - could be great for M/S recordings in one package.  Wonder how they are, sonically.

Page on this board used to run the stereo mic I do believe.
So unless he pops in here you should hit him up. http://taperssection.com/index.php?action=profile;u=1482
To the OP
Page also runs those beyers I was suggesting before. His are the ck version( caps with remote cable then body) for lower profile.

[ero3030]

first find the sound u like, and go in that direction.  if u cant afford what u really want, try to wait till u can.  dont  dissapoint your self, or get caught up into " the upgrade" bug.  it will cost u more in the long run going that way.  tons of peeps on this board probably wish they would of bought what they r running now with out having to do it step by step.  somtimes u have to do it little by little, but if u can wait it out, and buy what YOU really want, it will deff pay off in the long run.  this is IMO of course.....and from personal experience.   ed

[newplanet7]

Agreed on the upgrade bug.
I wish I had just entered with what I wanted instead of settling for less.

[achalsey]

Okay I'm a newbie so take it with a grain of salt but...

As others have said, definitely figure out what mics sound good to your ears not just "what other people like," before impulse buying.  I used to just see Neumann, Schoeps, AKG recorded shows and thought, sweet this will sound GREAT!  Not always the case.  Personally I've been finding I really like the AKG sound over most of the others.  But again thats just me.  Your ears might like something else, so try to check out the LMA to see what sounds best overall to you.

So to second what some people have said...
the Busman set certainly gives the most versatility and affordability so you'll be able to try out all sorts of options and configurations and really get a feel for any situation you want.

I personally really like the sound of the c460b with the ck61 caps.  Less versatility and more expensive than the busmans but like people have said, its a preference thing.

Personally, I would say if you're not sure what you're getting into and just trying to throw a grand down on some mics because you can and its an awesome hobby to get into, figure out what you want and what you're doing first.