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Author Topic: Transparent Mod UA-5  (Read 16349 times)

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Offline cwfen

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Transparent Mod UA-5
« on: June 04, 2004, 10:17:27 PM »
Saw some info over on oade.com about the new mod for the UA-5. Doug is apparently benchtesting a new, more extensive mod even as we speak... should be interesting! From what he is saying, it seems like a step up from the other mods he has done.

http://www.oade.com/Tapers_Section/Forum/dcboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=100&topic_id=1097&mesg_id=1539&page=

Offline Karl

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2004, 01:49:02 PM »
Looks pretty cool! 
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Offline Tim

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2004, 01:55:39 PM »
looks like the forst one will be coming to Denver, I'll have to get ahold of Darrin and see what's up, looks interesting!
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Offline creekfreak

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2004, 04:47:18 PM »
that Doug and his crazy MOD's ;D
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Offline Todd R

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2004, 11:30:47 AM »
looks like the forst one will be coming to Denver, I'll have to get ahold of Darrin and see what's up, looks interesting!

Finally saw Darrin out taping last night--haven't seen him in eons.  He's got a taping rig together again, including the transparent mod UA5.  I think last night's dead show was its first time out in the field.  We'll have to get his reports back on it.  He ran Gefell m300>t-mod UA5>JB3 in the front row.  I believe right next to him was a guy running m300>V3, so Darrin was going to try to get a copy of that recording as well so he could compare.
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Offline wsphansam

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2004, 02:15:48 AM »
How does he come up with the names of them?
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Offline dnsacks

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2004, 01:19:00 PM »
Todd -- great to see you sunday nite -- psyched to be getting back into the game.

My recording of sunday's show came out nice.  I had some HARD overs during drums (now I know how to run the ua5's levels :) ) so I'm probably not going to seed the entire show, but am happy to let folks grab it/excerpts from it from me once I track it out.  I gave my address to the guy running the m300>v3 he should be sending me disks shortly.  Should be a good comparison, though our mic configurations were a bit different.  I ran the m300s in a din config (90 degrees, ~20cm), he ran his at around the same spacing, but pointing @ the speakers. 

Per Doug -- here's the deal on the T-Mod (Transparent Mod) UA-5 -- It is more extensive then the P MOD or W MOD. In addition to the basics, I upgrade the analog DC power supply, P48, the signal path including the RCA inputs and use very low impedance caps in the signal path in addition to HQ bypass caps. The chips I use were chosen for their lack of coloration, ultra low distortion & noise plus fast transient response.

My observations so far are that the T-Mod UA5 definitely lives up to its name -- it sounds fast/punchy and quite neutral (transparent) -- I'm definitely a happy camper so far.


Thus, if I get the disks, a direct T-MOD ua5 vs V3 comparison could be very interesting.

Offline Todd R

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2004, 06:02:51 PM »
Good to see you too, Darrin.  Hopefully now that you've gotten some new toys we'll see you out a bit more often.

BTW, welcome to ts.com.  Be sure to look under the team boards heading from the main page.  There is an ongoing Colorado Crew thread (well, Colo-BRAH-do Crew at this point) where you can often find what folks are doing and what shows they're hitting.
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Offline chris e.

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #8 on: June 23, 2004, 11:51:32 AM »
I was able to test drive the t-mod in Boulder for my cousins band prior to Jerry's Dead, and ran the mics at the lip O' stage.  I'm so pleased w/the unit thus far as the soundstage sounded very clean and warm.  Although, I was running the mics in this bizzare pattern.  Never let soundmen (soundboard) tell you how to run mics. 

Plus the UA-5 is much more stealth than I originally thought.  I'm impressed.

C Evans


 

Offline Nick's Picks

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2004, 06:53:05 AM »
Chris & Darrin...
nice to hear from you guys!

I'd love to hear your recording from the other night....dispite whatever warts are present.
I've been groveling for some B&Ps from RR, but nobody has come through yet. 
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Offline Da Boss

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2004, 11:01:41 AM »
Ummm...What is the problem with the UA-5 stock?
It is already transparent and has a nice soundstage STRAIGHT OUTTA THE BOX!

Offline dnsacks

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2004, 11:26:46 AM »
Nick:

I owe you some shows!  Will burn 6/20 for you, any others from the run?

Da Boss -- Nothing is wrong with the ua-5 out of the box (once digimodded).  Doug's various mods merely improve upon a nice mic pre/ ad converter by rebuilding the analog front end with higher quality components.  I see Doug's goal as being to take a device that competes well with entry level devices and turn it into a "giant killer" that provides sound quality rivaling that of an apogee minime or grace v3 (but at less than 1/2 the price)

 

Offline mirth

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2004, 11:28:41 AM »
And unless your goal is to use the UA-5 without a computer, there's nothing wrong out of the box at all. Only if you want to use it as a standalone ADC, then you need a d-mod.
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Offline Sterling

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2004, 10:05:49 AM »
Where can I get some samples? PM sent

Offline §†∑∫åµÞ≥¥

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2004, 10:45:25 AM »
The one sample I heard from an Oade recorded Gov't Mule show sounded way too bright for my pleasure. IMO the stock sound is better. There are a few samples on the Oade Taper's board... it's linked around here somewhere.
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Offline dnsacks

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #15 on: July 02, 2004, 11:22:06 AM »
Interesting -- I'm really happy with how the tmod ua5 compliments our mg300s and so far don't find it to be bright at all.  Instead, it seems to provide a very accurate presentation of the mics being used.  Don't have any direct comparisons yet, but listening to my recording of the "dead" from 6/20/04 and todd r's akg 483>v3 recording of the same show recorded 1 row behind me, I found mine to sound a fair bit warmer, while todd's sounded a bit more detailed/brighter in the high end (as a hypercard recording should).  I'm happy to burn copies of my recording and/or let anybody interested grab a few sample tracks (or the show). 


Offline §†∑∫åµÞ≥¥

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #16 on: July 02, 2004, 12:45:15 PM »
Yeah, as usual it all comes down to personal preference. Different mod's will probably sound better with different mics to different ears. All I know is the stock UA-5 (digi mod'd, of course) sounds great with my mod'd 463's.
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Offline markgarrigan

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2004, 07:09:27 PM »
this is interesting....i would love to hear some samples of this mod as well...

i started a thread with questions about the previous mod if anyone has some input on that...it would wonderful....but i'm coming to the conclusion that well....its personal preference...

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=22118.0

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2005, 08:02:34 AM »
Ummm...What is the problem with the UA-5 stock?
It is already transparent and has a nice soundstage STRAIGHT OUTTA THE BOX!

Nothing wrong...Oade is genius! Mr Oade has apparently discovered that he can create 3 different(note: different...not better) sounds from this device by swapping various sets of parts out. He has given each "mod" a name and charges double the price of a stock unit. Pretty slick...epsecially when there are few specs available for this device (for comparison) and he publishes no specs to support the advantages of his mods. Oade must have gotten a sweet deal on a raft of UA5s when they were discontinued...(no wonder he wont work on units he didn't sell) - Now he is pumping them out like no tomorrow...thanks in no small part to the cheering section here at TS.com.

What I want to know is: why doesn't Oade offer a "Mod Pod"? - like an external box that would let you choose any of the mods or stock - that way with a flick of the switch you could switch from w-mod to t-mod to p-mod...i.e. - why not make all the mods available in one device...even if it required a small outboard box...???

« Last Edit: January 04, 2005, 08:22:39 AM by corkscrew »

Offline Todd R

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2005, 12:50:45 PM »
Wow, what the hell is up with all the hostility you have over this?  If you don't think the Oade mods are worth it, don't buy them.  Personally, I find you're need to bash on Doug Oade for making these available to the market a bit annoying.  So he's supposed to be some kind of scumbag because he wants to give tapers options on what type of equipment they can run?

He makes different options available because he believes that tapers can have different tastes as to what sounds best and that there is no single "best" sound.  He doesn't publish specs to prove they sound better because he, like a lot of us, does not believe that the specs he could come up with would have any meaning whatsoever to how the modded unit sounds.  He has electronic circuit design knowledge, knowledge of components and how they alter the sound, a trained and acute "golden ear", and sound systems costing tens of thousands of dollars on which he can test out different mods to hear how they sound and decide which might be useful mods that other tapers might be interested in.  In short, he has a great deal of knowledge and experience as well as capital equipment necessary to design and implement modifications to taping gear.  I see no reason whatsoever he shouldn't be able to try to make a business out of this knowledge and equipment.  If you don't like it, you can feel free not to buy it.  But your need to portray him as some kind of huckster is really unnecessary, and not at all on target.

As to your point about a mod pod, it isn't being done because it really isn't feasible.  You can't just run all these electrical signals in and out of various boxes without causing stray capacitances and other artifacts that may at the worst make the project unworkable.  At the least, the design and layout considerations and realities would noticably affect the signal, so that the p-mod of a mod-pod box would sound nothing like the current implementation of the p-mod.  It is certainly worse when dealing with an external box, but the same considerations and realities occur even if you were to somehow design some internal daughter board to accomplish this within the box.
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hexyjones

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #20 on: January 04, 2005, 01:11:18 PM »
Wow, what the hell is up with all the hostility you have over this?  If you don't think the Oade mods are worth it, don't buy them.  Personally, I find you're need to bash on Doug Oade for making these available to the market a bit annoying.  So he's supposed to be some kind of scumbag because he wants to give tapers options on what type of equipment they can run?

He makes different options available because he believes that tapers can have different tastes as to what sounds best and that there is no single "best" sound.  He doesn't publish specs to prove they sound better because he, like a lot of us, does not believe that the specs he could come up with would have any meaning whatsoever to how the modded unit sounds.  He has electronic circuit design knowledge, knowledge of components and how they alter the sound, a trained and acute "golden ear", and sound systems costing tens of thousands of dollars on which he can test out different mods to hear how they sound and decide which might be useful mods that other tapers might be interested in.  In short, he has a great deal of knowledge and experience as well as capital equipment necessary to design and implement modifications to taping gear.  I see no reason whatsoever he shouldn't be able to try to make a business out of this knowledge and equipment.  If you don't like it, you can feel free not to buy it.  But your need to portray him as some kind of huckster is really unnecessary, and not at all on target.

As to your point about a mod pod, it isn't being done because it really isn't feasible.  You can't just run all these electrical signals in and out of various boxes without causing stray capacitances and other artifacts that may at the worst make the project unworkable.  At the least, the design and layout considerations and realities would noticably affect the signal, so that the p-mod of a mod-pod box would sound nothing like the current implementation of the p-mod.  It is certainly worse when dealing with an external box, but the same considerations and realities occur even if you were to somehow design some internal daughter board to accomplish this within the box.

"Bashing" and "hostility" is a little strong...I'm being a bit cynical, yes...but I think sometimes that is healthy...

I think Oades business is perfectly legit...but I also think it is just that - a business - he wants to make money. You dont think he does all this to be a nice guy, or just for the intrinsic value...? I don't think he is above making a decision based strictly on business. In the case of the UA5 - he is offering a decidely average piece of discontinued gear, with mods that double it's (retail) price. Since the UA5 is recently discontinued - Oade may have had an oppourtunity to buy a shitload of these things for cheap...knowing he can double their market value. I truly think Oade is very clever...but I think I admire his business smarts as much as his tech savvy...

Offline jk labs

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #21 on: January 04, 2005, 01:25:51 PM »

What I want to know is: why doesn't Oade offer a "Mod Pod"? - like an external box that would let you choose any of the mods or stock - that way with a flick of the switch you could switch from w-mod to t-mod to p-mod...i.e. - why not make all the mods available in one device...even if it required a small outboard box...???


IF you leave the UA-5 ADC chip itself out of the question
THEN all of the UA-5 sonic color is contribued by the analog signal path between the UA-5 analog input port and it's internal
ADC (CODEC) input pins.

This analog signal path is full of compromises and no external box can "undo" it's shortcomings.   

Jon

editet for grammar
« Last Edit: January 04, 2005, 05:51:26 PM by jk labs »

Offline bhtoque

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #22 on: January 04, 2005, 02:14:10 PM »
Does the transparent mod affect the sound that much more when it is used with high end mics ?
Say :

akg 480s > digiMod ua5 > jb3
akg 480s > T Mod ua5 > jb3

Also is the PLUS mod all it's crackd up to be ?

There is a serious discrepency in prices between these products we are talking about, & is it really worth hundreds of more dollars for these mods, when the mics are so high end ?
If this product is dis-continued, the price will only rise, right ?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
digimod ua5 (from oade) : $330

digimod ua5 (self mod) : ~$230

t + ua5 : $640

t ua5 : $550



I ran my ua-5 with only the digi-mod for a couple years, and just got the T-mod Plus in July.

There is a huge improvement in the sound all around. I wish I had done it much sooner. The Plus part of the mod is worth it if you use the analog section a lot. For input on the rca's there is a noticeable difference. I also like the phantom section improvements with my Oktavas.

The bottom end gets mushy if phantom voltage strays too much from 48v. I used to use a deneke PS-2 to prevent it, but I have had no problems since the upgrade.

As far as high end mics, you'll get a better, more noticeable, result with the mod. Garbage in garbage out, ya know.

A really good way to hear how the box works is to DL the Charlie Hunter Trio show http://www.archive.org/audio/etree-details-db.php?id=20833

and Scott Gordon's Schoeps>v2>ad2k rig http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=8166

For less than half the cost of his rig see how you think my tape sounds. He was clamped onto my stand for this.

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Offline krebsy

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #23 on: January 04, 2005, 03:36:00 PM »
I would agree with bhtoque's comment re: the T-Mod Plus.  I should have a 391 > T-Mod Plus source torrented soon if folks have an interest in hearing...
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #24 on: January 04, 2005, 05:21:59 PM »
He makes different options"Bashing" and "hostility" is a little strong...I'm being a bit cynical, yes...but I think sometimes that is healthy...

FWIW, I don't think your post came across as "a bit cynical" at all, I felt it came across downright hostile - so, bashing, yes.  Todd R obviously shares my sentiments, and I suspect others do as well.  Cynicism is difficult to convey in this medium, perhaps you should practice "a bit" more.  :P

I think Oades business is perfectly legit...but I also think it is just that - a business - he wants to make money. You dont think he does all this to be a nice guy, or just for the intrinsic value...?

Of course it's a business, and of course there are financial incentives for him to offer the mods.  But Doug has proven over and over again his ability and willingness to impart detailed knowledge to the taper community as a whole - on both self-modding the UA5 and all other taping related activities - and clearly has motivations other than purely cash.

In the case of the UA5 - he is offering a decidely average piece of discontinued gear, with mods that double it's (retail) price.

Do you have substantial experiences using the stock UA5 ? Digi-mod UA5?  W/P/T mods?  What criteria are you using in defining the UA5 as a decidedly "average" piece of gear?  Based on your current and past posts, I suspect you define "average" by the specs.  But by real-life cost/value accounts, the UA5 is far above average (and if you disagree, please point me to a piece of gear that offers the same sound quality / feature set at a similar price point), and Doug simply builds on that cost/value - including selling mods at a price point at which there is very little (if any) competition.  I know of no other piece of gear that offers the same (or even remotely close) strong cost/value as the UA5, digi-mod UA5, or P/T/W-mod UA5s.  Perhaps we simply have different ideas about what makes a gear "average".

Oade is genius!

Indeed.  But not for the reasons you insinuate.

Mr Oade has apparently discovered that he can create 3 different(note: different...not better) sounds from this device by swapping various sets of parts out.

Yes, different.  And to most people's ears, better - not strictly in "flavor" - but in difficult to measure but easy to hear categories like detail, soundstage, etc.

Pretty slick...epsecially when there are few specs available for this device (for comparison) and he publishes no specs to support the advantages of his mods.

Your continued reference of specs as the indicator for "quality" gear, and to "prove" advantages to the mods, clearly indicates you've not actually heard the stock/digi/W/P/T mods.  As Todd R has properly pointed out - and others have pointed out to you previously, including myself - specs do not tell you how the gear will sound.

Oade must have gotten a sweet deal on a raft of UA5s when they were discontinued...(no wonder he wont work on units he didn't sell)

FWIW, Doug offered the UA5 mods looooong before Edirol / Roland discontinued the unit.  The Oade Bros is a small operation, and I suspect some of the reasons Doug mods UA5s only bought through Oade Bros:

[1] minimize bench-time with his back troubles
[2] ensure availabilty of a very limited staff for other projects
[3] to maintain a sufficient profit margin - the Oade Bros aren't making gobs and gobs of money selling modded UA5s (based purely on volume of sales), and any additional profit they can get out of the sale makes it more worth their while.

Now he is pumping them out like no tomorrow...thanks in no small part to the cheering section here at TS.com.

If you bothered to listen to the various mods, you might better undertand all the cheering.  We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs, we cheer because we're thrilled with the sound of the results.
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Offline BJ

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #25 on: January 04, 2005, 05:27:42 PM »
He makes different options"Bashing" and "hostility" is a little strong...I'm being a bit cynical, yes...but I think sometimes that is healthy...

FWIW, I don't think your post came across as "a bit cynical" at all, I felt it came across downright hostile - so, bashing, yes.  Todd R obviously shares my sentiments, and I suspect others do as well.  Cynicism is difficult to convey in this medium, perhaps you should practice "a bit" more.  :P

edited so it wont be so long and redundant...

Now he is pumping them out like no tomorrow...thanks in no small part to the cheering section here at TS.com.

If you bothered to listen to the various mods, you might better undertand all the cheering.  We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs, we cheer because we're thrilled with the sound of the results.

all said with my thoughts in mind...HUGE +T!!!!

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Offline herrmann2burn

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2005, 05:57:09 PM »
I own 2 UA-5's...1 w/Wmod, and the other w/Pmod.  I use them to achieve different results when i am recording different styles of music.  Part of my reasoning was to have 2 very good preamps with usb 24 bit capabilities, instead of having one "top shelf" pre for equal price.
I am very happy with the quality, service, advice, and customer service that the Oades have provided, and disagree with the statement that Doug is only in it for the money.
If that were true, i doubt he would have a Messege Board with a "Used Gear Exchange" Forum in it.

+T to Doug


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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2005, 06:20:48 PM »
He makes different options"Bashing" and "hostility" is a little strong...I'm being a bit cynical, yes...but I think sometimes that is healthy...

FWIW, I don't think your post came across as "a bit cynical" at all, I felt it came across downright hostile - so, bashing, yes.  Todd R obviously shares my sentiments, and I suspect others do as well.  Cynicism is difficult to convey in this medium, perhaps you should practice "a bit" more.  :P

edited so it wont be so long and redundant...

Now he is pumping them out like no tomorrow...thanks in no small part to the cheering section here at TS.com.

If you bothered to listen to the various mods, you might better undertand all the cheering.  We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs, we cheer because we're thrilled with the sound of the results.

all said with my thoughts in mind...HUGE +T!!!!



Ditto!!

Offline Tim

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2005, 06:36:57 PM »
Ummm...What is the problem with the UA-5 stock?
It is already transparent and has a nice soundstage STRAIGHT OUTTA THE BOX!

Nothing wrong...Oade is genius! Mr Oade has apparently discovered that he can create 3 different(note: different...not better) sounds from this device by swapping various sets of parts out. He has given each "mod" a name and charges double the price of a stock unit. Pretty slick...epsecially when there are few specs available for this device (for comparison) and he publishes no specs to support the advantages of his mods. Oade must have gotten a sweet deal on a raft of UA5s when they were discontinued...(no wonder he wont work on units he didn't sell) - Now he is pumping them out like no tomorrow...thanks in no small part to the cheering section here at TS.com.

What I want to know is: why doesn't Oade offer a "Mod Pod"? - like an external box that would let you choose any of the mods or stock - that way with a flick of the switch you could switch from w-mod to t-mod to p-mod...i.e. - why not make all the mods available in one device...even if it required a small outboard box...???



give it a rest...
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2005, 06:59:08 PM »
Ummm...What is the problem with the UA-5 stock?
It is already transparent and has a nice soundstage STRAIGHT OUTTA THE BOX!

Nothing wrong...Oade is genius! Mr Oade has apparently discovered that he can create 3 different(note: different...not better) sounds from this device by swapping various sets of parts out. He has given each "mod" a name and charges double the price of a stock unit. Pretty slick...epsecially when there are few specs available for this device (for comparison) and he publishes no specs to support the advantages of his mods. Oade must have gotten a sweet deal on a raft of UA5s when they were discontinued...(no wonder he wont work on units he didn't sell) - Now he is pumping them out like no tomorrow...thanks in no small part to the cheering section here at TS.com.

What I want to know is: why doesn't Oade offer a "Mod Pod"? - like an external box that would let you choose any of the mods or stock - that way with a flick of the switch you could switch from w-mod to t-mod to p-mod...i.e. - why not make all the mods available in one device...even if it required a small outboard box...???



give it a rest...

why dont YOU build the box, since you know how he runs his business already :P
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2005, 07:07:41 PM »
We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs, we cheer because we're thrilled with the sound of the results.

first off i just wanted to say that i agree with everything you have said.......

however, IMHO,  specifications are not useless.  in fact they are the exact opposite and should be researched well before buying a piece of gear.  Just my opinion though.  I'd never buy anything if I couldn't see the specs or the producer would not publish them.  Doug won't provide the specifications cause he either, doesn't know them, or doesn't have time to do all the tests to produce new specs for the "modded" units.  They can't be too far deviated from the original specs which can be found in the owners manual.

corkscrew,  while it's admirable to demand specs,  your comments are hostile and way off base.  Doug saw a product that would be perfect for all tapers and capitalized on it by modding them for different sounds for different tapers.  Welcome to America.  Doug shouldn't be punished because he was the first to think of it. 

so pipe down already and buy the damn thing or don't.   your horrible diatribes here certainly are not doing you any good.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2005, 07:10:21 PM by S_TL-Taper »

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2005, 07:11:46 PM »
however, IMHO, specifications are not useless. in fact they are the exact opposite and should be researched well before buying a piece of gear. Just my opinion though. I'd never buy anything if I couldn't see the specs or the producer would not publish them.

Wellll...useless was probably overdoing it.   :-X  Specs are handy at times, agreed.
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #32 on: January 04, 2005, 08:28:47 PM »
Just started this torrent. It's a Kimock gig from last month. Not SKB, but pretty much playing that material.

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=10426&viewcomm=76655#comm76655

It's 391 >T Mod Plus > JB3.  No PA, about 10-12' from the musicians, so sort of a "not quite stage" tape. Widely used mics, so I thought it might prove useful for those looking for comparisons.
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #33 on: January 04, 2005, 11:32:44 PM »
IMHO, Oade Bros. are a model of good business.
Honest, fair, and with great customer service.
I asked alot of questions before buying my T-Mod. Everything that Doug answered was
honest and accurate and not "window-dressed."

The Mods are reasonable when parts and time are taken into consideration.

Will they replace a V3 or MiniMe ?  I really don't think they were intended to......

We're very lucky to have a few truly excellent vendors around this board !
And FWIW, I think that the Oade Bros. are one of them.




Offline Daryan

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2005, 10:00:03 AM »
It's tough to have an opinion different from other's around here lately from what I have read, too bad really.  But anyway, it's really rather quite simple what Doug does.  The parts don't cost much realitively speaking to what he charges for the mods, nor should they have to.  What you pay for and what you get is knowledge and time.  He knows exactly which parts to change out, he knows exactly which parts sound the best for the sound he is trying to get, and he knows where to point the soldering iron so that everything works.  I don't think he ever said you couldn't go do the exact same thing he is doing and save a lot of money has he?  He has even gone as far as to drop hints on what parts he is using, so if you want to try the mods, and most likely blow up your ua-5 inthe process, go right ahead.  Now, if you don't know how to do all of this, or more than likely do not even want to give it a whirl for fear of blowing what you just paid 250 bucks for up, you have him do it for you.  His business isn't unlike any other modding company out thwere modding dvd players, cd players, amps, etc...they simply know what they are doing to get a desired, and most definately improved sound and the majority of us do not.  It isn't some scam of a business model, it is simply meeting a need that people desire and are willing to pay for.  The mods change the specs in every way imaginable, so comparing stock specs to modded specs would be like comparing apples to nails, not even remotely close.  I imagine he doesn't have the equiptment to measure the specs anyway, and really why should he invest thousands of dollars to list numbers most of us don't and probably shouldn't be able to understand in the first place.  This hobby for as long as I can remember has been about trusting your ears, not reading some data sheet or graph that sets out what you are supposed to hear.  If I was supposed to hear things, I might like mics that my ears tell me I do not, and then not be happy in the slightest. 

Daryan
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2005, 10:44:25 AM »
Just to be clear - I haven’t accused Oade of being dishonest or unfair…I merely remarked on his business model. Yes, somewhat cynically. But that is only in response to the “Oade walks on water” mentality. I have been taping for nearly 20 years, and I am well aware of the Oade legend and immense contribution he has made to this hobby. Shit – the DAT scene in the early 90s may not have even happened without his cables!

But it is disappointing, on technical oriented board to hear comments like:

He doesn't publish specs to prove they sound better because he, like a lot of us, does not believe that the specs he could come up with would have any meaning whatsoever to how the modded unit sounds

and

We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs

Which is funny because…on Oades website it says:

...This replaces the input capacitors, which are SMD electrolytic ( higher distortion and noise) with SMD film caps ( lower distortion and noise)

Well – he must have some specs and they must have some meaning! He is obviously making decisions based on specs. How else would he know how to compare the various components he swaps.  How can he make the above statement without specs?

THD cant be rocket science to measure…cant we do it with a spectral analysis…? Compare tone in to tone out?

Sorry – guys specs matter….they are not the ABSOLUTE last word on equipment…but they are very valuable when evaluating equipment. If somebody brings me a preamp and claims – “this has .01% THD” and I look at my preamp and find it has .1% THD…well - I’m going to try to hear the difference…because I know that it is there…that “difference” may manifest itself as “better” or “not better” – depending on – YES – how it sounds…indeed - that is the final word.

Ever notice how Creative would fluff up the JB3 line out stage…”Audiophile quality, 96 db dynamic range”…but says nothing about the analog input stage? Did they just forget? I doubt it. Maybe…the specs just didn’t look that good…so they don’t publish them…same with Edriol? I don’t know…

Clearly – specs like THD would be useful in comparing the mods…

Perhaps this all comes down to one of Audio’s dirty little secrets:

The human ear likes a little distortion – that’s why some folks like tube preamps so much…they like that harmonic distortion that occurs in the tube…note – were talking very slight at subtle distortion – I forget what order of harmonics tubes affect…?

Ok – I’ve seen Phish enough this week…I’ll try to shut up.

Offline Todd R

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #36 on: January 05, 2005, 11:51:01 AM »
But it is disappointing, on technical oriented board to hear comments like:

He doesn't publish specs to prove they sound better because he, like a lot of us, does not believe that the specs he could come up with would have any meaning whatsoever to how the modded unit sounds

and

We don't cheer blindly based on useless information like specs

I don't find these comments to be disappointing at all.  Specs are just one way, and a pretty poor way at that, to understand if a piece of audio equipment is any good.  As you alluded to, if we relied on specs nobody would be using tube equipment, which many people do in fact use and like tremendously.  And if we relied on specs, we probably would all have pioneer or sony playback receivers purchased from Best Buy.  Face it, there are tons of games to be played on developing specs and plenty of very mediocre equipment sport fantastic specs.

What I do find disappointing is posts of yours like these:

Quote
But - I cant help but wonder if this device's reputation has been manufacured by Oade. The guy offers 4 mods to the thing...he is doing a nice business. Is it possible that Oade picked this device simply because of the oppourtunity to mod? Maybe the parts used in the UA5 are more common and have more alternative parts available.

For all we know the M-Audio DUO may sound better but not offer as many "mod oppourtunities" to Oade...so he pumps up the UA-5 instead...


Quote
Nothing wrong...Oade is genius! Mr Oade has apparently discovered that he can create 3 different(note: different...not better) sounds from this device by swapping various sets of parts out. He has given each "mod" a name and charges double the price of a stock unit. Pretty slick...epsecially when there are few specs available for this device (for comparison) and he publishes no specs to support the advantages of his mods. Oade must have gotten a sweet deal on a raft of UA5s when they were discontinued...

With the sarcasm, innuendo, and accusations you go far beyond stating your opinion or even being mildly cynical as you keep stating.  I and many others apparently read your posts as pretty hostile, bashing what the Oades do and suggesting pretty clearly that they are just hucksters taking our money from us and giving us nothing.

You keep acting like the specs are absolutely imperative to judging equipment.  I don't.  To me, you can judge equipment via several different means, including:

1)  specs
2)  reputation of the company/individuals making or modifying the equipment
3)  performance of past products made by that company/individual
4)  reputation of the product among people you know and trust who have used it
5)  your own analysis and judgement about how the product performs

So the Oade modded UA5's don't provide one of these means of judging the product, so what?  For me and for many others, the Oade modded UA5s get very high marks on the other 4 metrics for judging them.  Which is good enough for us, especially since at least some of us find specs to be the weakest of all the metrics and the one most easily manipulated.

Bottom line, and once again, if you don't like them, don't buy them.  And if you want to insert your opinion ("I don't find these mods offered by Oade to be worth the money"), that's fine.  But I still say I find your sarcastic, inflammatory, and accusatory tone that you use to bash the Oades to be tiring and I really wish you'd just drop it.
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Offline Daryan

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #37 on: January 05, 2005, 12:02:47 PM »
No offense dude, I clearly respect your opinion, but if specs are what you want to argue here, then why would you be using a midiman flying calf if you really love specs, for that matter the tascam's as well???????????
Microtech Gefell 200/210->Zaolla Silverlines->Fostex FR-2 (oade modified plus other self mods)

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Tweaks: isolation and room treatments, silclear, BPT 1.5r Power Conditioner (modified), isoblocks, vibrapods, many others

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #38 on: January 05, 2005, 12:10:50 PM »
Ummm...What is the problem with the UA-5 stock?
It is already transparent and has a nice soundstage STRAIGHT OUTTA THE BOX!

Nothing wrong...Oade is genius! Mr Oade has apparently discovered that he can create 3 different(note: different...not better) sounds from this device by swapping various sets of parts out. He has given each "mod" a name and charges double the price of a stock unit. Pretty slick...epsecially when there are few specs available for this device (for comparison) and he publishes no specs to support the advantages of his mods. Oade must have gotten a sweet deal on a raft of UA5s when they were discontinued...(no wonder he wont work on units he didn't sell) - Now he is pumping them out like no tomorrow...thanks in no small part to the cheering section here at TS.com.

What I want to know is: why doesn't Oade offer a "Mod Pod"? - like an external box that would let you choose any of the mods or stock - that way with a flick of the switch you could switch from w-mod to t-mod to p-mod...i.e. - why not make all the mods available in one device...even if it required a small outboard box...???



give it a rest. doug's prices are fair. jesus, he'll change a mod that he's done for like $50. he's worked wonders with the sbm1, which imo is a piece of crap when stock. can't comment on the ua-5, haven't heard enough tapes.

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #39 on: January 05, 2005, 12:17:00 PM »
No offense dude, I clearly respect your opinion, but if specs are what you want to argue here, then why would you be using a midiman flying calf if you really love specs, for that matter the tascam's as well???????????

 :o :o     ;D
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #40 on: January 05, 2005, 01:39:05 PM »
Which is funny because…on Oades website it says:

...This replaces the input capacitors, which are SMD electrolytic ( higher distortion and noise) with SMD film caps ( lower distortion and noise)

Well – he must have some specs and they must have some meaning! He is obviously making decisions based on specs. How else would he know how to compare the various components he swaps.  How can he make the above statement without specs?



You picked a rather poor example with this one.  There are alot of variables in capacitor design and there are audible effects of the design choices.  The assertion that film capacitors are lower noise than electrolytic capacitors has nothing to do with what Doug Oade says or believes.  It's a demonstrable result of the construction and material selection of the device.  It's the same as the difference between carbon and metal film resistors.

A good cynic would have done some research before posting that quote. 
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Offline Tim

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #41 on: January 05, 2005, 01:51:19 PM »
but alas corkscrew is just an ignoramus talking out of his ass...
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Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #42 on: January 05, 2005, 04:11:28 PM »
Yes, somewhat cynically.

Apparently, you haven't taken my recommendation of practicing your message board cynicism before trying it again - because once again your tone still reveals plenty of (apparently unintended) hostility and insinuation.

I won't go on as others have basically addressed my other contentions in your most recent post.  However, I will request that you answer my previous questions (conveniently unanswered, similar to Creative neglecting to provide information on the JB3s analog input stage):

Do you have substantial experiences using the stock UA5 ? Digi-mod UA5? W/P/T mods? What criteria are you using in defining the UA5 as a decidedly "average" piece of gear?

Inquiring minds want to know.  And I'll add:  since you're so hung up on the specs, please let us know when you can measure them and provide input back to the community.
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #43 on: January 05, 2005, 04:44:57 PM »
but alas corkscrew is just an ignoramus talking out of his ass...

I don't like anyone invading my turf. ;)

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #44 on: January 05, 2005, 09:26:18 PM »

Perhaps this all comes down to one of Audio’s dirty little secrets:

The human ear likes a little distortion – that’s why some folks like tube preamps so much…they like that harmonic distortion that occurs in the tube…note – were talking very slight at subtle distortion – I forget what order of harmonics tubes affect…?


 All, but it's the 2nd-order are the prominent ones that differentiate the "tube sound", I think.
 BTW, Even Order = Musical Octaves, Odd-Order are often not musical and "harsh"

I think that modern electronics and solid engineering can simulate a tube very well.

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #45 on: January 05, 2005, 10:02:52 PM »
No offense dude, I clearly respect your opinion, but if specs are what you want to argue here, then why would you be using a midiman flying calf if you really love specs, for that matter the tascam's as well???????????

What's wrong with the Flying Calf?...50 bucks for a 24 bit A/D - I thought it was a good deal...

TASCAM PE-120 = Nak 300

The TASCAMS are (to the best of my knowledge) the same mic - manufactured by "Primo" of Japan - and sold under the Nakamichi, TEAC, TASCAM and ALTEC brand names...

And I dont really love specs...I just find them useful...a good place to start...


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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #46 on: January 05, 2005, 10:13:24 PM »
Which is funny because…on Oades website it says:

...This replaces the input capacitors, which are SMD electrolytic ( higher distortion and noise) with SMD film caps ( lower distortion and noise)

Well – he must have some specs and they must have some meaning! He is obviously making decisions based on specs. How else would he know how to compare the various components he swaps.  How can he make the above statement without specs?



You picked a rather poor example with this one.  There are alot of variables in capacitor design and there are audible effects of the design choices.  The assertion that film capacitors are lower noise than electrolytic capacitors has nothing to do with what Doug Oade says or believes.  It's a demonstrable result of the construction and material selection of the device.  It's the same as the difference between carbon and metal film resistors.

A good cynic would have done some research before posting that quote. 

The parentheses are from the Oade site - not my embelisments or assertions...

Isn't a "demostrateable result" a "spec" ?? - - - they didn't just guess that certain materials would produce lower noise...

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #47 on: January 05, 2005, 10:21:04 PM »
The parentheses are from the Oade site - not my embelisments or assertions...

Isn't a "demostrateable result" a "spec" ?? - - - they didn't just guess that certain materials would produce lower noise...

One could make the Oade Bros statements based purely on the specs of the components used in the mod.  Go search the Oade board - Doug has posted the primary components involved in the W/P mods, dig up the specs yourself.
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #48 on: January 05, 2005, 10:22:38 PM »
The parentheses are from the Oade site - not my embelisments or assertions...

Isn't a "demostrateable result" a "spec" ?? - - - they didn't just guess that certain materials would produce lower noise...

One could make the Oade Bros statements based purely on the specs of the components used in the mod.  Go search the Oade board - Doug has posted the primary components involved in the W/P mods, dig up the specs yourself.

If I ever find myself about to buy a UA5...I just might.

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #49 on: January 05, 2005, 10:24:09 PM »
If I ever find myself about to buy a UA5...I just might.

BTW, you ever going to answer my questions?
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #50 on: January 05, 2005, 10:27:13 PM »
so youre knocking a product youve never seen nor heard?

damn, you must have way too much time on your hands :P
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #51 on: January 05, 2005, 10:50:50 PM »
If I ever find myself about to buy a UA5...I just might.

BTW, you ever going to answer my questions?

No experience with the UA5 - I've listened - sounds nice...although the mic pre is capable of adding quite a bit of color - depending on the mod...hard to evaluate all-in-ones...

"Average" = all in one unit, weak ergonomics, no metering..."average" isn't as disparaging as it may sound...

Offline Brian Skalinder

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #52 on: January 05, 2005, 11:03:57 PM »
No experience with the UA5

Big surprise.  ::)

I've listened - sounds nice...although the mic pre is capable of adding quite a bit of color - depending on the mod...hard to evaluate all-in-ones...

Any mic pre is capable of adding quite a bit of color, but what does that have to do with one's ability to evaluate the units?  And it's uber-easy to evaluate all-in-ones against, well...other all-in-ones, which is what we're talking about here.

"Average" = all in one unit, weak ergonomics, no metering..."average" isn't as disparaging as it may sound...

So an all-in-one unit is inherently average?  Guess my V3 is average, too, eh?

Ergonomics aren't great, but they're not awful - better than the MMe, IMO.  And the ergos don't prevent one from effectively using the gear, it's just a little quirky.

Minimal metering isn't all that big a deal - if you ran one, you'd know.  I honestly don't get the few people who have built external meters - using the UA5 as the peak indicator and a DAT / JB3 as the L/R balance, it just isn't that difficult.  And again, it doesn't prevent one from effectively using the gear, it's just a little quirky.

Why am I not surprised you neglect to include any mention of the UA5s sound in your description of it as "average".  ::)
« Last Edit: January 05, 2005, 11:05:39 PM by Brian Skalinder »
Milab VM-44 Links > Fostex FR-2LE or
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Roland R-05

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #53 on: January 05, 2005, 11:06:53 PM »
well said brian, because people are ignornat

is this d00d mad because he didnt think of it first or something?
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Re: Transparent Mod UA-5
« Reply #54 on: January 05, 2005, 11:10:33 PM »
but alas corkscrew is just an ignoramus talking out of his ass...

I don't like anyone invading my turf. ;)

that version is a lot nicer than other what else I had writtem ;D

I’ve had a few weird experiences and a few close brushes with total weirdness of one sort or another, but nothing that’s really freaked me out or made me feel too awful about it. - Jerry Garcia

 

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