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Offline wheresjerry

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new guy on the block....
« on: April 14, 2007, 07:23:56 AM »
Hey folks,

I have been trading for about 5 years, and figured , what the heck, I see enough shows a year, why not record?

I just bought my first set up for recording, a Oade BCM Marantz PMD671, w/ Rode NT-4 mics, stand bag, cards, etc....I will be recording my first show, Hot Buttered Rum, next weekend....other than pouring thru the manual, what other sources of information is there that I can look at about the basic do's and don'ts on recording, etc.....any help would be appreciated!

Thanks in advance! :djsmilie:
Neumann. KM184>zoom f8,  pax 2 vaporizor, AlienEars, Neumann KM184,AKG 390 bodies w/ ck91and ck93 caps, Rode NT-4 ,  SP-CMC-25>battery box>Oade concert mod pmd 620......  and lot's a stuff....playback Yamaha rx-v 663,LG BD590, bose accumass 5 speakers, ears and AKG 701's....
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Offline pmonk66

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2007, 08:10:25 AM »
Practice makes perfect. The more you record, the better you will understand your equipment.

Good luck and have some fun!


Offline goodcooker

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2007, 11:15:41 AM »
setup the rig in front of your stereo and record for a while till you run out of juice...
this will give you some idea of what to expect in the field and you won't get surprised...
and running your battery down to recharge a few times and burning in your cables can't hurt.

make a checklist and lay all your stuff out on the floor....check it off as you pack it...
pack then unpack and setup your rig a few times....it will get faster and you will figure out a way to keep all your delicate electronics from banging around and scratching each other.

get some gaffer's or blue painter's tape and some little velcro cable ties  ;)

have fun and wear your seatbelt.
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

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Offline wheresjerry

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2007, 11:53:37 AM »
Basically, that is what I figured!  I ran it in front of my stereo...mostly, I do not want to clip the unit, so watching rec levels is what I really need to do....should I leave my mic atten at -20db, or set to 0db on my unit with the rode nt-4's?  I know setting it to 0db raises the recording level...or is this another trial and error thing?  I guess, I just need to know which setting should I start with when in the field...I want to record stuff like Ratdog, Mule, etc.....oh yea, thanks for your input, especially from Marantz users!
Neumann. KM184>zoom f8,  pax 2 vaporizor, AlienEars, Neumann KM184,AKG 390 bodies w/ ck91and ck93 caps, Rode NT-4 ,  SP-CMC-25>battery box>Oade concert mod pmd 620......  and lot's a stuff....playback Yamaha rx-v 663,LG BD590, bose accumass 5 speakers, ears and AKG 701's....
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/wheresjerry

Offline gratefulphish

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2007, 01:46:12 PM »
+T for finding your way here.  Using the 20db pad will depend on the volume of the particular show.  If you are clipping, you will need to use it.  I almost always used it on my Tascam DA-P1, but a lot of current decks have variable input gain, allowing you to effectively reduce the gain level, and then adjust from there with a trim control.  If you found yourself clipping a lot in front of the stereo, without using the pad, then you will probably need it for most shows.

Now that you have done the stereo practice run, maybe you can get out to some local club show, that you don't really care about, to test your new-found skills in the field, such as learning to set up in low light (oh BTW, a good flashlight, and a backup, are necessities), and running your gear in a live setting.  This will give you more experience, comfort with the gear, and some more information about where you need to set levels, pad etc., although levels everywhere are always different, and be aware that the FOH guy is going to be adjusting his levels at the beginning of the show, usually starting low, and then going up, so you need to keep your eye on things, as you can set your levels, but if the PA gets turned up, you can find yourself clipping.

I just got a new deck in the mail, and I am reading the manual, playing with it, will probably run it along side my existing deck the first night or two, until I feel fully comfortable with it.  Good luck, keep asking questions, and read a lot of the posts already here, using the search function.
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Offline wheresjerry

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2007, 03:42:28 PM »
Thanks....good idea for bringing a flashlight! 
Neumann. KM184>zoom f8,  pax 2 vaporizor, AlienEars, Neumann KM184,AKG 390 bodies w/ ck91and ck93 caps, Rode NT-4 ,  SP-CMC-25>battery box>Oade concert mod pmd 620......  and lot's a stuff....playback Yamaha rx-v 663,LG BD590, bose accumass 5 speakers, ears and AKG 701's....
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/wheresjerry

Offline goodcooker

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2007, 12:30:37 PM »
I don't use the pad on my 670 but I use a preamp so I have never found a need.....
At a large show, or a show where the soundguy feels the need to push the system to the limit you will likely need it.....I wish FOH would try to keep it around 100dB but that rarely happens...only experiencce will guide you.....
they will keep raising the levels during the course of the show and some of the musicians will "hold out" on their level, keeping a little oomph for that big solo...it will always be in a state of flux, but I always set my levels and leave them (pretty much) by the third song when most of the issues are worked out.

+t
Line Audio CM3/OM1 || MBHO KA500 hyper>PFA|| ADK A51 type IV || AKG C522XY
Oade Warm Mod and Presence+ Mod UA5s || Aerco MP2(needs help) || Neve Portico 5012 || Apogee MMP
SD Mixpre6 || Oade Concert Mod DR100mkii

pocket sized - CA11 cards > SP SB10 > Sony PCM A10

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/goodcooker

"Are you the Zman?" - fan at Panic 10-08-10 Kansas City
"I don't know who left this perfectly good inflatable wook doll here, but if I'm blowing her up, I'm keeping her." -  hoppedup

Offline wheresjerry

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2007, 01:43:22 PM »

they will keep raising the levels during the course of the show and some of the musicians will "hold out" on their level, keeping a little oomph for that big solo...it will always be in a state of flux, but I always set my levels and leave them (pretty much) by the third song when most of the issues are worked out.

Thanks for that advice!  Learning constantly here........
Neumann. KM184>zoom f8,  pax 2 vaporizor, AlienEars, Neumann KM184,AKG 390 bodies w/ ck91and ck93 caps, Rode NT-4 ,  SP-CMC-25>battery box>Oade concert mod pmd 620......  and lot's a stuff....playback Yamaha rx-v 663,LG BD590, bose accumass 5 speakers, ears and AKG 701's....
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/wheresjerry

Offline Kevin

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2007, 01:57:23 PM »
Welcome
I might leave the levels dancing around -12db that should give you some good head room
481(3)>722

Offline wheresjerry

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2007, 03:15:07 PM »
Thanks!  Here is a secondary question.....what other stuff do all of you think I should have on hand other than my equipment?  Gaffers tape, flashlight, etc???
Neumann. KM184>zoom f8,  pax 2 vaporizor, AlienEars, Neumann KM184,AKG 390 bodies w/ ck91and ck93 caps, Rode NT-4 ,  SP-CMC-25>battery box>Oade concert mod pmd 620......  and lot's a stuff....playback Yamaha rx-v 663,LG BD590, bose accumass 5 speakers, ears and AKG 701's....
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/wheresjerry

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2007, 03:19:41 PM »
clamps, gaffers tape, flashlight, thick garbage bag(for rowdy crowds or outdoor festivals I always have LOTS of garbage bags), mini leatherman, nylon zipties(these come in MUCHO handy), usually have a backup for everything too(batteries/some cables/etc) but thats further down the road. for outdoor festies youre gonna need an umbrella as well
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Offline pmonk66

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2007, 03:44:36 PM »
A friend to get you beers and watch your gear when you have to pee!@

Offline Kevin

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2007, 04:56:23 PM »
clamps, gaffers tape, flashlight, thick garbage bag(for rowdy crowds or outdoor festivals I always have LOTS of garbage bags), mini leatherman, nylon zipties(these come in MUCHO handy), usually have a backup for everything too(batteries/some cables/etc) but thats further down the road. for outdoor festies youre gonna need an umbrella as well
Dam you bring a lot of crap ;D
481(3)>722

Offline wheresjerry

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2007, 05:28:08 PM »
A friend to get you beers and watch your gear when you have to pee!@

Got a few of those...with lighters too!
Neumann. KM184>zoom f8,  pax 2 vaporizor, AlienEars, Neumann KM184,AKG 390 bodies w/ ck91and ck93 caps, Rode NT-4 ,  SP-CMC-25>battery box>Oade concert mod pmd 620......  and lot's a stuff....playback Yamaha rx-v 663,LG BD590, bose accumass 5 speakers, ears and AKG 701's....
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/wheresjerry

Offline rowjimmytour

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #14 on: April 15, 2007, 06:15:13 PM »
+t for first taping outing!!! The HBRSB sound guy Josh is super cool and allows sound board patches. He also is very knowledgeable to the taping scene and nice guy to rap with so if ya want to matrix or run a straight SDB feel free to ask. His CDR player has spdif, optical, rca outs so bring a couple extra cables w/ ya if ya want to run board. Location, location, location is very important so take your time finding your spot and if you see other tapers strike up conversation and see if they know best spot for venue set up. Good luck and most important have fun.
Peace
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Offline wheresjerry

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2007, 07:28:44 PM »
Thanks for dropping a name....I'll look for him. 
Neumann. KM184>zoom f8,  pax 2 vaporizor, AlienEars, Neumann KM184,AKG 390 bodies w/ ck91and ck93 caps, Rode NT-4 ,  SP-CMC-25>battery box>Oade concert mod pmd 620......  and lot's a stuff....playback Yamaha rx-v 663,LG BD590, bose accumass 5 speakers, ears and AKG 701's....
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/wheresjerry

Offline F.O.Bean

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #16 on: April 15, 2007, 07:33:41 PM »
clamps, gaffers tape, flashlight, thick garbage bag(for rowdy crowds or outdoor festivals I always have LOTS of garbage bags), mini leatherman, nylon zipties(these come in MUCHO handy), usually have a backup for everything too(batteries/some cables/etc) but thats further down the road. for outdoor festies youre gonna need an umbrella as well
Dam you bring a lot of crap ;D

thats not near all of it either ;D all that plus 2 clamps/umbrella, and the v2/722 setup+722 batteries and 12 x 3000mah 7.2v NIMH batts for the v2/722 powering :) and some 4-pin>rc connectors as well! and sennheiser hd280 pro headphones :) and an rca>1/8" out of the v2 for patches! thats all!

Schoeps MK 4V & MK 41V ->
Schoeps 250|0 KCY's (x2) ->
Naiant +60v|Low Noise PFA's (x2) ->
DarkTrain Right Angle Stubby XLR's (x3) ->
Sound Devices MixPre-6 & MixPre-3

http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/diskobean
http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/Bean420
http://bt.etree.org/mytorrents.php
http://www.mediafire.com/folder/j9eu80jpuaubz/Recordings

Offline mmmatt

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #17 on: April 17, 2007, 12:38:25 AM »
Thanks!  Here is a secondary question.....what other stuff do all of you think I should have on hand other than my equipment?  Gaffers tape, flashlight, etc???
make sure you have enough flash media!  I find that newegg is the best prices and service for that kind of thing  www.newegg.com .  If you are going to record at 24/96 you will get about 30min per gb, about 1 hr per gb for 24/48 (I think), and if you do 16/44.1 you can get about 1.5hrs per gb. 

I'm not sure how the pmd671 works exactly, but with the 660 it is set up as having 3 preset recording scenes.  Each preset you can set up for different recording options (bitrate, sample, input, etc) Be sure you verify your settings before recording.  I actually recorded with internals for a show one time on accident!!!   Luckily the 660 was just a backup that day. 

I would call Doug Oade and ask him about the pad... seems to me there was something about always running it or never running it... I can't remember that one for sure but it was a discussion in a pmd660 thread way back when. 

Definitely set up and run the unit out on the stereo to see how long batts go etc.  Get yourself set up with a nice bag that holds all your gear and allows you to access/see the unit while running.  Tons of good options at walmart and places like that.  I usually go for softsided coolers.  They offer pretty good protection, are cheap, and are pretty inconspicuous when sitting in your car.  Take your 671 into the store and try it out in the bags.  Backpacks, photo bags, and laptop bags are also popular choices.

  Definitely say Hi to Josh... he is the shit and you can tell him that everyone at ts says so.  He needs to hear that from time to time and it is all true.  One of the most taperfriendly sound guys in the business, and he mixes a great show!  The whole band is actually very nice and down to earth.

Matt
I do think taping is the reality of the business..it is also an impetus for artists to create studio CDs that are ART, not just another recording...    Fareed Haque  2-4-2005




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Offline EYES

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #18 on: April 20, 2007, 11:27:52 PM »
looks like lko iko time. enjoy yourself and the music you record. the nt4 9 volt battery option gives endless hours of recording.yet i always carry a spare, +T for you
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ALWAYS GRATEFUL,EYES

Offline SmokinJoe

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #19 on: April 21, 2007, 11:41:48 PM »
The HBRSB sound guy Josh is super cool and allows sound board patches. He also is very knowledgeable to the taping scene and nice guy to rap with so if ya want to matrix or run a straight SDB feel free to ask.

FYI... I got this email from Josh last week...  It sounds like their policy has changed... maybe that is just for Tuesday night's show, but I doubt it.  I had fully planned on doing an audience tape Sunday and Tuesday, wasn't even thinking about board patches really, and had asked to get on the guest list, which they have been known to do for tapers.  Maybe if you know the guy you can continue to get board patches, but I think those of us who don't have that history shouldn't raise our hopes too much.

Just my 2 cents worth.  Sorry for getting off topic.  Email snippet below...

Hi Joe, thanks for inquiring about taping the Hot Buttered Rum
show at the Stone Church. I just wanted to give you a heads up about
our new policy, I will not be giving out any board patches for this
show but would love to put you on the guest list if you want to come
tape the band with audience mics.  Please let me know if this is what
you were planning on and I'll make sure you're on the guest list.
Thanks again, and HBR always looks forward to the Stone Church shows.
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Offline rowjimmytour

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Re: new guy on the block....
« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2007, 12:26:40 AM »
The HBRSB sound guy Josh is super cool and allows sound board patches. He also is very knowledgeable to the taping scene and nice guy to rap with so if ya want to matrix or run a straight SDB feel free to ask.

FYI... I got this email from Josh last week...  It sounds like their policy has changed... maybe that is just for Tuesday night's show, but I doubt it.  I had fully planned on doing an audience tape Sunday and Tuesday, wasn't even thinking about board patches really, and had asked to get on the guest list, which they have been known to do for tapers.  Maybe if you know the guy you can continue to get board patches, but I think those of us who don't have that history shouldn't raise our hopes too much.

Just my 2 cents worth.  Sorry for getting off topic.  Email snippet below...

Hi Joe, thanks for inquiring about taping the Hot Buttered Rum
show at the Stone Church. I just wanted to give you a heads up about
our new policy, I will not be giving out any board patches for this
show but would love to put you on the guest list if you want to come
tape the band with audience mics.  Please let me know if this is what
you were planning on and I'll make sure you're on the guest list.
Thanks again, and HBR always looks forward to the Stone Church shows.

He does state in this email that the policy is for this show so I still think ya can patch at other shows. I have gotten patches when they have streamed the show on the net. I think they might be releasing a live CD for this show or use some of hte tracks for a album.
Peace
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And the trees are all kept equal
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