Topic: Ikea Ladda 2450 - General Questions

[RyanJ]

I have been considering to get in to rechargables for my gear, as I go through a fresh pair of AAs for every show. I am trying to be conscious of my waste. I've been reading on here that the Ikea Ladda's are just rebranded from the Panasonic Enloop series. From what it sounds like, they are the best rechargables you can get out there? I remember I tried using rechargable batteries back in 2008 and had a few times my batteries just died after a full charge and have been worried ever since to get back into them. I bought a Powerex MH-C9000PRO as my recharging station and I wasn't too sure if I needed to charge the batteries right away when I got them, or how I should break them in? (if that even needs to happen)

I charged the first set and placed them in to my M10. I also changed the battery settings in the M10 and in almost an hour the battery went to half full on the M10. When usually it lasts 30-40 hours. What are some tips/tricks for making these last and do you trust these batteries for a full show in your gear?

[goodcooker]

I use Eneloops and have for years. I just cannot use one use alkaline batteries with a clear conscience.

I get similar runtimes as copper top duracells (or longer) depending on the device.

I suggest cycling them a few times in your charger to stabilize them. If your charger doesn't show capacity per battery I'd get a cheap multimeter and match them up as best you can. This seems to be a small but significant thing that increases run time.

[fireonshakedwnstreet]

I have not used the Laddas, but have started using Eneloops to power the DR-680. 8 batteries. It generally has three bars left by the end of a three hour show with all six channels going, digital in, plus using all six outs and the digital out going. Have not had issues at all. That said, I do have backup power just in case.

[dactylus]

I have been considering to get in to rechargables for my gear, as I go through a fresh pair of AAs for every show. I am trying to be conscious of my waste. I've been reading on here that the Ikea Ladda's are just rebranded from the Panasonic Enloop series. From what it sounds like, they are the best rechargables you can get out there? I remember I tried using rechargable batteries back in 2008 and had a few times my batteries just died after a full charge and have been worried ever since to get back into them. I bought a Powerex MH-C9000PRO as my recharging station and I wasn't too sure if I needed to charge the batteries right away when I got them, or how I should break them in? (if that even needs to happen)

I charged the first set and placed them in to my M10. I also changed the battery settings in the M10 and in almost an hour the battery went to half full on the M10. When usually it lasts 30-40 hours. What are some tips/tricks for making these last and do you trust these batteries for a full show in your gear?

There are a number of us here on TS that have been using the Ikea Ladda 2450 for years.  No problems encountered.  Yes, I trust them. 

[Dan33185]

Those are what I use and I've had the same 4 for a couple years and they still run just fine. I actually just ordered 4 more last week in anticipation of a music festival over the weekend, and they worked great as expected.

[justme]

Modern low discharge cells do keep they capacity well while being stored.
But many nimh cells need a few cycles to reach their absolute max capacity so let your mh-c9000 cycle them for you or simple let them do the cycles by using them.

Out battery stash at home are 90% IKEA Ladda and they have never let us down.

[H₂O]

From what I understand the Ladda 2450s are Eneloops rebranded - The are identical


I own both and other than the printing on the sleaves they look identical and both are Made In Japan

[justme]

Yes. IKEAs Ladda are Eneloops in IKEA wrapping.

[mountainhop]

i grabbed some ansmann and will test their actual capacity on my charger vs the ladda 2450s (aka eneloops) which do hit their target capacity, i have the white ones but they are a few years old

have you ever tested capacity on your eneloops? seems odd that the ansmann would be more than double the runtime. you might have cell in there thats on its way out

i did find some tests online (https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php)

eneloop 1900 vs ansmann 2850


ladda 2450 vs ansmann 2850


seems like the extra 10%on the ansmann could be handy, but at more than twice the price...... hmmmm.

[mountainhop]

I have been considering to get in to rechargables for my gear, as I go through a fresh pair of AAs for every show. I am trying to be conscious of my waste. I've been reading on here that the Ikea Ladda's are just rebranded from the Panasonic Enloop series. From what it sounds like, they are the best rechargables you can get out there? I remember I tried using rechargable batteries back in 2008 and had a few times my batteries just died after a full charge and have been worried ever since to get back into them. I bought a Powerex MH-C9000PRO as my recharging station and I wasn't too sure if I needed to charge the batteries right away when I got them, or how I should break them in? (if that even needs to happen)

I charged the first set and placed them in to my M10. I also changed the battery settings in the M10 and in almost an hour the battery went to half full on the M10. When usually it lasts 30-40 hours. What are some tips/tricks for making these last and do you trust these batteries for a full show in your gear?

was about to start a general NiMH thread and searched to see if there was one, and came across this

a few notes:
1. Ladda 2450s are definitely time-tested batteries and offer capacity near the upper range of what is available for a fair price

2.Whether they are actually rebranded eneloops has never been confirmed to the best of my knowledge. They do have similar discharge curves at typical loads. According to this site there is some variation at extreme loads. This could be due to different versions of the batteries introduced over time, and the chart may not be apples-to-apples with current offerings

https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/CommonAAcomparator.php



3. While 'eneloop' is a trade name, there is in fact some unique chemistry involved. I'm not sure of the date of this reference, but eneloops are claimed to have lower self-discharge rates vs ordinary NiMH chemistry. Perhaps this was the advent of Low Self Discharge (LSD) NiMH technology, and was adopted by other manufacturers as the patent expired

https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-203-nickel-based-batteries

4. if charging on your MH-C9000 charger, make sure to leave the batteries on for at least two hours after it says 'full' to squeak out the maximum charge. the 100 mA 'top-off' charge after the unit displays 'Done' will add ~100 mAh/5% capacity

5. If doing comparative testing on batteries make sure to use the same methodology. Either fresh off the charger, or left to sit idle for the same amount of hours

6. i always use the 'break in' feature on the C9000 with new batteries. It asks for the capacity of the battery and charges/discharges accordingly. In this case it is good to look online and see what capacity others have determined in real tests, which often varies relative to stated capacity. The Laddas are in fact right at 2400-2500, but some mfrs grossly overstate their capacity.  If doing a 'break in' make sure any other batteries you need are charged (or you have an alternate charger), as it will tie up your charger for two solid days. At the end of the break-in process it will display the actual values it determined during the discharge portion of the test. You can test capacity quicker using the 'refresh/analyze' feature which takes about 8 hours depending on the rates you select. for AAs i usually go with the default 1000mA charge/500 mA discharge rates

7. By far the most useful feature of the C9000 is to periodically analyze capacity and repurpose any cells that are more than a few percent lower capacity than others. An array of batteries is only as good as its weakest cell.

8. even LSD NiMHs lose a bit of capacity when taken off a charger. for maximum capacity leave the batteries on the charger as close to the show as possible, or if it capacity is close and critical, consider using the car adapter to have them trickle charging til youre ready to go in. I personally wouldn't want to run that close on capacity but i would bet a strategy like this could tack on quite a bit more runtime, depending on gear, which could make or break your recording sometimes

9. M10 runs a long time, make sure the battery setting is set to NiMH for better battery indication. Some trial and error may be warranted. Apart from the lower voltage, due to the flatter nature of the nimh discharge curve (not quite as flat as li-ion but still way flatter than alkaline), the battery indicator may drop to half almost immediately and stay there forever... and give you nearly no warning as it suddenly goes from half to zero. As always testing your gear at home until you know it forward and backward is advised.

[justme]

I received my Ansmann 2850 cells last week and have done a lot of testing of my Ladda, 2450, Eneloop Pro 5th edition and the new Ansmann 2850.
The charger used was the SkyRC MC3000 and the charge and discharge cycles was done in different ways.
First I followed all the recommended numbers for charging and discharging, voltage, current, delta peak, etc. I never discharged any of them to under 1,0V.
I also tried slow and fast charging and different discharge currents to simulate heavier loads 0,5A, 1A and 2A.

The conclusion is the the Ladda are rock solid choices - which we all knew - and being rebranded Eneloop they perform as them.
Very stable, no real sample variation and they can be understood how they will behave in different situations.
The Eneloop Pro:s did not show any conclusively higher capacity. Sample variation was as solid as the Ikea branded ones as well.
They both came in between 2250-ish up to 2380mAh when discharged at 1A. A tiny bit lower on 2A.

Ansmann 2850 definitely have a higher capacity rating on paper and they show that in real test as well.
But they also did show a larger sample variation.
Capacity wise they did show 2450-2650mAh under different charge and load settings.
It was obvious though that they performed better then Ladda/Eneloops on high loads such as on 2A.
About 10-15% higher capacity as 2A.
At 1A the Ansmann was better as well but only with less then 10%

[mountainhop]

i too am testing ansmann right now, vs the laddas and these 'PKCell' which i came across that seem to be ansmann-class at  fraction of the price



ansmann: 4 cells $20.49 amazon
ladda 2450: 4 cells $8.99+ shipping ikea
pk 2600: 8 cells $9.99 amazon

the pks are still breaking in. the first pass with ansmann only lasted 3hrs 50 min vs my three year old Laddas doing 3:45, so not all that impressive for the price. after break-in the 4 pack reported capacities from 2590-2645 which are good numbers, about 5% higher than the ladda 2450s

testing again under standard conditions of "charge - wait prescribed amount of time - test"

again these are all subject to drain, my test rig (zoom f6 with 6 mics on phantom) is running about 0.25C, where the low voltage cuts off around 1.1V. if i test capacity on the charger its closer to 0.2C, and can go as low as 0.9-1V

id like to do further tests on how these cells do after being fully charged and sitting for a day, a week, a month, which imo is at least as relevant as some cells can reportedly lose a good percentage of charge in a day. the low-self-discharge batts usually have a very slight capacity penalty, but if your non-LSD batts have lost as much or more capacity by the time you get into the section, whats the point?

shall we start a dedicated thread?

[justme]

I bought and tested the PK cells as well but they failed short in every way for me.
https://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=193251.msg2384554#msg2384554

[mountainhop]

Ha! I even replied to your post and went on to buy them anyway.... well the first 4 pack is finishing its break-in now, will report

[justme]

Hehe. Let’s hope your batch is better than mine.

[mountainhop]

all over the map
388,1433,2079,2413, 2415,2455,2577,2581

since its christmas amazon has returns through 1/31 so i will beat teh hell out of the good ones for awhile and assess

[mountainhop]

i ran the bottom 3 of those through the "Break In" program on the 9000, and now they are 2094, 2196, and 2219. didnt pay attention to which was which so unsure if the one that was originally 2079 gained anything

[RyanJ]

Thanks for all the data here, I am still pretty nervous to go out and tape with this stuff. Nothing worse than a half complete tape due to batteries!

[daspyknows]

Thanks for all the data here, I am still pretty nervous to go out and tape with this stuff. Nothing worse than a half complete tape due to batteries!

Totally agree.  Duracell Pro-Cells and Energizer Lithiums.  Not dealing with trying to recharge batteries doing 5 shows in 6 nights in 3 cities or a multi day festival.   

[mountainhop]

Thanks for all the data here, I am still pretty nervous to go out and tape with this stuff. Nothing worse than a half complete tape due to batteries!

never fear, aint no thing. we are just pushing the bleeding edge in this thread trying to break any batteries we can at home, instead of in the field. while its nice to have a charger that can analyze and match batteries, with quality batteries like the laddas or eneloops its not a major concern, i have some that are many years old and still close to spec

no reason to use alkalines and fill up landfills when NiMH has a flatter curve (esp at high current draw) and higher capacity

(disposable) lithiums have their place when nimh cant get your gear over the finish line. i have one piece of gear i use them in

at the end of the day the more you know your gear the more successful you will be. test test test at home and you'll know exactly what to expect from your batteries in the field

[dactylus]

Not to keep beating the dead horse, but there are numerous folks here that have been using rechargeable Eneloops  & the rechargeable  "Ikea Eneloops" for years, without an incident or a missed recording.

[mountainhop]

Not to keep beating the dead horse, but there are numerous folks here that have been using rechargeable Eneloops  & the rechargeable  "Ikea Eneloops" for years, without an incident or a missed recording.

i recently pulled some laddas that were in storage for the bulk of the pandemic and the first charge was a little lower capacity, but they were back to their 2400 and 2500 spec   after a cycle or two

i personally think chargers like the c9000 are a steal for what they do. im always rockin a headlamp so i tear through about 3 AAAs a day. even if im not doing taping stuff theres always something on the charger, must have saved me thousands of dollars in batteries over the years. the analyze/matching feature is as useful as being able to charge odd numbers of cells on a daily basis

ive been considering upgrading to the analyzer/charger that justme is using, so i can log tests with a computer as well as enter the separate dork rabbithole of 18650 headlamps, so i might be parting with the c9000 in the near future.

[mountainhop]

ran through 8 of these "amazon basics"and despite being a bit shy of their claimed 2400 capacity, they were amazingly consistent, all 2345-2375

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00HZV9WTM

not at all awful capacity for low self discharge.

prices all over the map though

i paid $10 for an 8 pack, which is now $17 for some reason

16 packs for $16 and 24 packs for $20 seem pretty fair

caveat: they do say appearance may vary so perhaps not all batteries sold under that label are same manufacturer. mine are the lime green/dark gray ones, made in china, may 2021

[mountainhop]

did some loose tests of discharge in storage. about a week to a week and a half after fully charging

the Ansmanns tested above (2590-2645 full) were 2386-2454 after this time (92.5%)
the 2450 Laddas tested above (2442-2456 full) were 2225-2289 after approximately the same time, average 2276 ( 92.9%)

neither are advertised as "low self discharge"

ill test the amazon basics after sitting for a week or so, ill bet they arent far from the laddas. im paying a little better attention and writing down the date i pull them off the charger

[rigpimp]

Not to keep beating the dead horse, but there are numerous folks here that have been using rechargeable Eneloops  & the rechargeable  "Ikea Eneloops" for years, without an incident or a missed recording.

I still have Sanyo 1st gen Eneloops in use.  I also have newer Panasonic Eneloops as well as Laddas.  The only "incident" I have ever had was regarding my M-10 which will only run for about 30-40 minutes on Eneloops and really only likes alkalines.  Yes, regardless of settings.  I have since shifted to an A10 for a recorder

[RyanJ]

Finally had a few gigs to use these in multiple devices. I got 4-5 hours of recording in. None of the devices battery life was lower than 50%.