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Author Topic: Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?  (Read 2346 times)

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Offline DavidPuddy

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Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?
« on: December 15, 2022, 12:33:31 PM »
I was at a local venue last week and they mentioned I could grab ISOs from the mixer with a solid state drive but that my flash drive would not have the capability to record at the level needed. Anyone know of a decently priced SSD that would work for this?

This seems to be a decent price if it would work. I'm just not sure what write speed is sufficient.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1595431-REG/sandisk_sdssde61_1t00_g25_1tb_extreme_portable_ssd.html
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 12:39:24 PM by DavidPuddy »
Mics: mk4v/mk41v/mk22 > CMC1L/Nbobs, 4061, MKE2
Preamps: Mixpre-D, Nbox Platinum ABS
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Offline aaronji

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Re: Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2022, 01:06:27 PM »
Recording at 24/48 produces a data rate of 1.15 MB/s (2.3 MB/s at 24/96). If that drive only hits 25% of it's stated write speed, you'd still be able to record about twenty channels at 24/48 (or 10 at 24/96). In other words, I have no clue, but it seems reasonable to assume it would work.

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Offline GLouie

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Re: Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2022, 02:33:03 PM »
Generally true about flash drives being too slow. What board and what connection?

I have no problem running 24 tracks of 24/48 from a Behringer X32 mixer with X-USB output card, into a laptop running Reaper. And I believe that is mere USB2. They also have an adapter that takes SD cards, but I haven't tried one and don't know the required speed of the SD card.

The fast external SSDs usually claim that speed with the latest USB3 on a C connector. Check what cable you would use, USB to C. Some are USB2, some are USB3.

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2022, 02:38:45 PM »
I believe the board at this specific venue is an Allen & Heath digital but I am not 100%
Mics: mk4v/mk41v/mk22 > CMC1L/Nbobs, 4061, MKE2
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Offline GLouie

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Re: Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2022, 07:01:39 PM »
I'd check whether the board is USB3 or not, and get the appropriate cable. There are USB-C cables that are only USB2 speed; that might be enough, you'd have to check. The previous SSDs appear to be plenty fast enough with the right connection.

Offline doomed

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Re: Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2022, 04:19:12 PM »
You definitely want an SSD, not a flash drive, for any data you care about and which requires fast write speeds.

It's worth keeping in mind that USB C is not a speed rating, it's a connector standard, like USB A ('standard', if blue inside, it's USB 3 compatible), MicroUSB (legacy, USB 2 only I believe), which can be used for USB 2 or 3.

USB 2.0 is rated at 480 Mb/s, also keeping in mind the confusing way people indicate speeds, mainly for marketing purposes.

8 bits make one byte, 1 bit is 2^1 (0 or 1, off/on value), 1 byte is 2^3 bits = 8 bits. Nobody in the real tech industry uses Megabytes (MB) except disk vendors to make their disks look bigger. Any time that is used it's a slight warning to you to be cautious about that vendor or product or documentation. Computers use base 2 for this stuff, marketing people use base 10 because "it's bigger".

1. Mb/s = megabit/second. This is not ambiguous if written correctly, lower case 'b' means bits.
2. MB/s = ambiguous, either Megabyte (1 Megabyte = 10^6  bytes, 1,000,000 bytes/Mebibyte (2^20, 1,048,576 bytes). Technically MB means Megabyte but is unfortunately used loosely to indicate either.
3. MiB/s = Mebibyte/second. This is the correct technical term because it's not ambiguous.

480 Mb/s is max 60 MiB / second, but rarely actually performs that well. Realistically maybe max of 40 MiB/s depending on the hardware. The I/O chips will be the bottleneck there, not the USB 2.0 speed.

USB 3 chips are much more expensive and power hungry because they are at least 10x faster than USB 2 chips, and require USB 3 cables and connectors, whether type A (standard looking, will have blue inside to indicate usb 3 support), or type C. If it didn't say on the cable that it supports usb 3, you can safely assume it's usb 2 only until you verify it in testing. If anything in the chain is not USB 3 compatible it will drop down to USB 2 automatically. I can't think of any audio application that would require USB 3 speeds, which run 5-10+ Gb/s. Even if you're storing 2 channel 192/32 bit data directly. 12288 kbps (12288000 b/s, aka 11.7MiB/s) you could be running maybe 8 channels of that without hitting top max of realworld USB 2 speeds. I think I have this right, trusting an online calculator for the bit rates.

SSDs contain complex logic internally that makes writes far faster and more reliable, flash drives tend to just dump the data onto the chip directly using some cheap  logic, which results in overheating, very unreliable long term life, etc. SSDs are so cheap now that as long as you go with a quality vendor like Crucial or Samsung, you'll be fine. I always buy crucials myself, but the current price is hitting roughly $0.10 / GiB (10 cents)  of storage. Flash drives also tend to start overheating on long write operations, and start to slow more and more because of this. This overheating is also what eventually kills the drive, partly at least.

Note that understanding the difference between MB/GB/TB and MiB/GiB/TiB is quite important when making disk purchasing decisions because some vendors use MB, not MiB values on their docs/product listings, which means if you order a 1000 GB drive, that will actually show correct as 976 GiB when you view it in most modern operating systems. Vendors do this, sadly, to trick you, and make their drives sound bigger than they actually are.  Note that data is almost always written in KiB/MiB/GiB units on operating systems today, as far as I know anyway, so you'd be confused why the two numbers weren't matching.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2022, 04:52:48 PM by doomed »

Offline jefflester

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Re: Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2022, 05:41:08 PM »
This should work!  I have one for working on shows before archiving.

https://www.amazon.com/SAMSUNG-Portable-SSD-1TB-MU-PC1T0H/dp/B0874YJP92/ref=sr_1_3?crid=1UD7PX1DS1331&keywords=Samsung+T7&qid=1671128794&sprefix=samsung+t7%2Caps%2C187&sr=8-3
I got a Samsung 250GB portable SSD way back in 2016 to use with my QSC TouchMix 16. I've only used it about a dozen times over the years with the TouchMix and also an Allen and Health and it has performed flawlessly.

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Offline morst

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Re: Solid State Drive For SBD ISOs?
« Reply #8 on: December 20, 2022, 06:04:17 PM »
I believe the board at this specific venue is an Allen & Heath digital but I am not 100%
I got a 18 channel feed off an Allen & Heath QU series board on a thumbdrive but you might want more capacity.
16 plus the stereo bus.


Those Sandisk and Samsung portable SSDs seem like an easy solution (I have only used the samsung t5, t7 personally) or you can get a NVME stick and put that in a USB case, like from Orico, Wavlink, or possibly Sabrent though I am not sold on Sabrent's reliability.
Hey, the Orico store has their NVME>USB-C unit marked down from $30 to $15 right now on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/itm/114951832675
If you will be doing this, you don't need any kind of fancy NVME stick since you'll be limited by USB speeds.
1TB sticks are under $100 at a popular retailer in USA whose initials are BB.

Oh yeah USB-C... the Allen and Heath only has the old USB-A so it can't be faster than USB-3, so any USB-3 thumbdrive should work fine. Oh well.

from their site:
https://support.allen-heath.com/hc/en-gb/articles/4402944132753-Qu-Understanding-Qu-Drive-and-USB-devices
Quote
Qu-Drive is a facility to record and playback stereo (2-track) and multitrack (18-track) audio.
The recording format is WAV 48kHz 24-bit.

USB flash 'key', 'stick', or 'thumb drive' - most keys on the market are not fast enough for multitrack recording.
Grain of salt: my cheap SP32GB which later failed on me worked fine in 2015, lol!
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