Topic: FOR TOMORROW!!! Acoustic unplugged recording... how to?

[lordbelial]

Hi there,

This friday I'm gonna tape a local band from Barcelona playing acoustic unplugged in a little pub.

I'm normally running into AT853 - SP-SPSB-1 - NJB3 line input, but i'm afraid of getting low signals because they're going to play unplugged.

I was seriously thinking to record in MD via mic in, but I don't know If I should record with high or low mic sensibility...

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

[JackoRoses]

onstage would be best
When I had the opportunity to do this, I was able to use my omnis chest high in the middle of the musicians circle, it came out really nice.
Of course this requires permission from the musicians..
If they won't let you set up in the middle of them try to get a stage lip than.
Good luck!

[eric.B]

try your same setup, just run the mics verrrry close to the sound sources..  like mentioned, chest high as the third point in an equilateral triangle..   hope this helps!  ala doug

good luck..

[lordbelial]

onstage would be best
When I had the opportunity to do this, I was able to use my omnis chest high in the middle of the musicians circle, it came out really nice.
Of course this requires permission from the musicians..
If they won't let you set up in the middle of them try to get a stage lip than.
Good luck!

Yes, I have permission from the musicians. To be honest, I offered myself to tape them live in acoustic, and they accepted as "wow! nice offer!", so I can acces to the stage and place the mics in there.

So, which config (for the mics), should be better? X-Y? ORTF? And what about the placement of the mics? On the floor or in a stand?

[eric.B]

onstage would be best
When I had the opportunity to do this, I was able to use my omnis chest high in the middle of the musicians circle, it came out really nice.
Of course this requires permission from the musicians..
If they won't let you set up in the middle of them try to get a stage lip than.
Good luck!

Yes, I have permission from the musicians. To be honest, I offered myself to tape them live in acoustic, and they accepted as "wow! nice offer!", so I can acces to the stage and place the mics in there.

So, which config (for the mics), should be better? X-Y? ORTF? And what about the placement of the mics? On the floor or in a stand?

config is dependant on the spread of the musicians I would think, the ambient environment surrounding, and your desired results..  xy for a tight image and possible removal of room acoustics..  nos/ortf/din will give you a larger "soundstage" and possibly more of the "room"..  are there gonna be lots of people chatting?  you say acoustic (no amplification) so I would put them on a stand between chest and waist high in the middle of the musicians (as suggested by guiness drinker).. 

[Brian Skalinder]

I've run once or twice in a similar situation and found XY to work well.  Depending on their layout on stage, a wider angle like 110º may turn out better than 90º.  Running so close with cardioids in a near coincident config (ORTF, DIN, etc.) for this type of scenario, I found exaggerrates the soundstage too much for my tastes, so I like the tighter soundstaging from XY.  Also helps minimize the movement of the musicians within the soundstage if they're swaying about, moving around on stage a bit, etc.

webericB poses some good qualifying questions upon which I'll expand:  How many musicians?  Playing what instruments?  Arranged how?  In what physical space (dimensions)?  Any idea of the room acoustics?  What sort of overall environment (you mentioned bar, but do you anticipate a chatty, quiet, or obnoxiously drunk and loud crowd, etc.)?  Answers to all these questions may impact your decision, and your results.

[lordbelial]

I've run once or twice in a similar situation and found XY to work well.  Depending on their layout on stage, a wider angle like 110º may turn out better than 90º.  Running so close with cardioids in a near coincident config (ORTF, DIN, etc.) for this type of scenario, I found exaggerrates the soundstage too much for my tastes, so I like the tighter soundstaging from XY.  Also helps minimize the movement of the musicians within the soundstage if they're swaying about, moving around on stage a bit, etc.

webericB poses some good qualifying questions upon which I'll expand:  How many musicians?  Playing what instruments?  Arranged how?  In what physical space (dimensions)?  Any idea of the room acoustics?  What sort of overall environment (you mentioned bar, but do you anticipate a chatty, quiet, or obnoxiously drunk and loud crowd, etc.)?  Answers to all these questions may impact your decision, and your results.

How many musicians?  Four plus a cellist
Playing what instruments?  Guitars, bass and voice
Arranged how?  Unplugged
In what physical space (dimensions)?  Dunno really, but it's a pub and I expect it to be quite small...
Any idea of the room acoustics?  Nopes
What sort of overall environment (you mentioned bar, but do you anticipate a chatty, quiet, or obnoxiously drunk and loud crowd, etc.)?  I guess we'll ask the crowd to stay a quiet for respect to the musicians.

[Brian Skalinder]

How many musicians?  Four plus a cellist
Playing what instruments?  Guitars, bass and voice
Arranged how?  Unplugged
In what physical space (dimensions)?  Dunno really, but it's a pub and I expect it to be quite small...
Any idea of the room acoustics?  Nopes
What sort of overall environment (you mentioned bar, but do you anticipate a chatty, quiet, or obnoxiously drunk and loud crowd, etc.)?  I guess we'll ask the crowd to stay a quiet for respect to the musicians.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant arranged how with respect to one another, and whether seated or standing.  Like in a half-circle, or straight line left to right, or two in front and three in back (or vice versa), etc.

If they're in a a straight line left to right, XY will work nicely, I think.  It's already a very wide soundstage due to the musicians' layout, so XY will capture the soundstage well without exaggerrating it.

If they're in a half-circle, DIN or ORTF might work nicely just outside the half-circle.

If they're in a corner kinda two in front, three in back, maybe back off just a bit distance-wise, else the front row musicians might overpower the back row musicians.  Moving back will allow for some blending of the instruments/voice so the front row doesn't completely dominate the sound.

If you're able to do any sort of stage setup / practice (I'm guessing not), then walk around to determine which spot sounds best.  If you're running cards, as you walk around, place your hands facing forward, flat behind your ears, and cup your ears forward just a bit to simulate the more directional pickup of the mics.

[lordbelial]

How many musicians?  Four plus a cellist
Playing what instruments?  Guitars, bass and voice
Arranged how?  Unplugged
In what physical space (dimensions)?  Dunno really, but it's a pub and I expect it to be quite small...
Any idea of the room acoustics?  Nopes
What sort of overall environment (you mentioned bar, but do you anticipate a chatty, quiet, or obnoxiously drunk and loud crowd, etc.)?  I guess we'll ask the crowd to stay a quiet for respect to the musicians.

Sorry, I wasn't clear - I meant arranged how with respect to one another, and whether seated or standing.  Like in a half-circle, or straight line left to right, or two in front and three in back (or vice versa), etc.

If they're in a a straight line left to right, XY will work nicely, I think.  It's already a very wide soundstage due to the musicians' layout, so XY will capture the soundstage well without exaggerrating it.

If they're in a half-circle, DIN or ORTF might work nicely just outside the half-circle.

If they're in a corner kinda two in front, three in back, maybe back off just a bit distance-wise, else the front row musicians might overpower the back row musicians.  Moving back will allow for some blending of the instruments/voice so the front row doesn't completely dominate the sound.

If you're able to do any sort of stage setup / practice (I'm guessing not), then walk around to determine which spot sounds best.  If you're running cards, as you walk around, place your hands facing forward, flat behind your ears, and cup your ears forward just a bit to simulate the more directional pickup of the mics.

well, thanks god i'm allowed to do stage setup, so I'll try to find the best spot to place the mics.

+T for the trick on the hands facing forward, flat behind the ears!