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Gear / Technical Help => Battery Boxes, Preamps, Mixers, ADCs, and Processors => Topic started by: cberryh2o on September 11, 2011, 12:18:12 AM
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Warning...relative newb here...
So I got a church audio preamp with my mics recently...just to be safe....and I've recorded probably 20 shows now without the preamp and never had a problem with just running the mics straight into the deck (and one of the shows was mind-bogglingly loud). Can someone tell me why/where/when I might need this preamp? I'm mostly recording rock music in clubs and occasionally stadiums/amphitheaters with church audio 11 mics and a sony pcm m10. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
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The preamp has two functions:
1) It provides the correct voltage to polarize the CA-11s. The mics require 9V to be properly polarized. The plug-in power of the M10 supplies 3V which appears to be enough voltage for the CA-11s to be functional in your recording situations, but to have the mics operating at their specs, they need 9V.
2) It supplies gain. Whether you prefer the M10 amp or the Church amp is up to you (ie., you can set the Church gain at 0, and do all the gain on the M10, or set the Church at the optimal gain). Many here (including myself) think the Church preamp provides clean, nice sounding gain. I've heard very good things about the M10, but I haven't seen any comparisons.
So bottom line is that to operate the mics at spec, you need to supply them with 9V from the preamp. If you want to reduce the bulk, it sounds like you can use a battery box to provide the correct voltage and get all the gain from the M10.
Warning...relative newb here...
So I got a church audio preamp with my mics recently...just to be safe....and I've recorded probably 20 shows now without the preamp and never had a problem with just running the mics straight into the deck (and one of the shows was mind-bogglingly loud). Can someone tell me why/where/when I might need this preamp? I'm mostly recording rock music in clubs and occasionally stadiums/amphitheaters with church audio 11 mics and a sony pcm m10. Thanks in advance for any help you can offer!
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So bottom line is that to operate the mics at spec, you need to supply them with 9V from the preamp. If you want to reduce the bulk, it sounds like you can use a battery box to provide the correct voltage and get all the gain from the M10.
According to illconditioned, who is extremely knowledgeable, the M10 will power CA-11's just fine without a battery box. Since you have made 20 recordings that way with no problems, I see no need to add a battery box to the chain.
If you ever start recording more quiet stuff, though, you might eventually want to add a Church Audio preamp to your arsenal. And if you ever buy a more power hungry set of mics like CA-14's you'll want to get a battery box or a preamp.
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So bottom line is that to operate the mics at spec, you need to supply them with 9V from the preamp. If you want to reduce the bulk, it sounds like you can use a battery box to provide the correct voltage and get all the gain from the M10.
According to illconditioned, who is extremely knowledgeable, the M10 will power CA-11's just fine without a battery box. Since you have made 20 recordings that way with no problems, I see no need to add a battery box to the chain.
If you ever start recording more quiet stuff, though, you might eventually want to add a Church Audio preamp to your arsenal. And if you ever buy a more power hungry set of mics like CA-14's you'll want to get a battery box or a preamp.
+1. The CA-11's can be used without any power the source. The CA-14's cannot. Even though I have the option to use my CA-UBB over the preamp, I use my 9100 preamp 99% of the time because it's easier to adjust the levels via it (and set the deck at unity). I also find the recordings much cleaner than my previous battery box/mic set up.
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Yeah, the CA-14's are sooo freakin awesome. I cannot believe how cheap they are. They sound like 1k mics :)
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Here is the deal all the CA mics were designed to run on 9v they can run on 5v too with little to no problems.. When you start running them on 1-4 volts it could be a problem or not. It depends on how loud the show is anything over 105 db with pounding bass you might have distortion ( with out a bb or a preamp ) ... So if you have the preamp use it. It will only bring your noise floor down and prevent any overloads due to a lack of voltage. Plain and simple unless you carry a db meter "some" people getting away with running with out a bb or a preamp is moot because we dont know and never will know what sound pressure levels were running at the time. One of the reasons why my gear does not overload is simple I tell ALL my customers to get a battery box or a preamp when they place the order with me. Why? So that I dont get any problems from any of my customers with distortion. I have never once in the 7 years I have been doing this ever had an issue with a customer having overload on my mics. Unless it was a weak battery or the crappy battery boxes that are out there that use the cheap coin cells going dead. That says it all.
So why take the risk I make a pretty dam small battery box and a preamp that is not much bigger than a 9 volt battery.. I am also making a new 9200 that will be the same size as the ugly preamp maybe smaller that is 0 db to 40 db of gain...
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I've had no problems hooking up the ca-14 omni's straight in to mic in on the pcmm10 this summer. This week i finally received my ca9100 preamp and got to test it out @ B.B. King's in NYC. I can't say if I didn't have the preamp if the show would have came out fine or not, but the volume was really loud and sounded (too loud) to my ears. With the preamp I am impressed on how good the recording came out. I guess I'm saying if you have it, use it. You never know when the soundman is gonna crank the living hell out of the PA or if you are going to be @ a real acoustic show.
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I've had no problems hooking up the ca-14 omni's straight in to mic in on the pcmm10 this summer. This week i finally received my ca9100 preamp and got to test it out @ B.B. King's in NYC. I can't say if I didn't have the preamp if the show would have came out fine or not, but the volume was really loud and sounded (too loud) to my ears. With the preamp I am impressed on how good the recording came out. I guess I'm saying if you have it, use it. You never know when the soundman is gonna crank the living hell out of the PA.
As Chris just said, you can get lucky because the SPL was high but not high enough to distort your recording running straight into the mic preamp. He's always recommended some sort of power supply for his mics to ensure they receive the correct voltage. Preamps can sometimes be a bit harder to deal with in a tight spot so I also have one of his Ugly Battery Boxes (essentially a 9V battery terminal that has some compound covering all the components with a 1/8" input jack and a 1/8" male techflex cable on it). It's ugly, yes, but it will power the mics properly and allow for high SPLs without distorting. Nowadays, there's no reason not to be running power on the mics for anything amplified.
I know you can run GuySonic's DSM mics on the M10 without issue via plug-in-power but those are different capsules than what Chris offers (and another story altogether).
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Why? So that I dont get any problems from any of my customers with distortion. I have never once in the 7 years I have been doing this ever had an issue with a customer having overload on my mics. Unless it was a weak battery or the crappy battery boxes that are out there that use the cheap coin cells going dead. That says it all.
So why take the risk I make a pretty dam small battery box and a preamp that is not much bigger than a 9 volt battery.
I have been using Chris's CA-11's + Bat2Box for about 8 months now and all recordings have come out fine compared to the dozen or so internal mic recordings that gave me a myriad of results - mostly bad.
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Since you already apparently have the preamp, you might as well use it. No downside, and as others have said, might be necessary in certain situations.
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an mic with N-Channel Junction FET works with 1.5 volts very well , you need then not pre-amp or battery box , only power inplug on ,
the most recorder give more than 2 volts , is enough power for the mic , and it you give cleaner sound
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an mic with N-Channel Junction FET works with 1.5 volts very well , you need then not pre-amp or battery box , only power inplug on ,
the most recorder give more than 2 volts , is enough power for the mic , and it you give cleaner sound
LoL really hummmm I don't think so.