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Author Topic: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig  (Read 4929 times)

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Offline gmm6797

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Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« on: July 27, 2008, 06:39:05 PM »
I currently run the following, and having some issues, and considering a major change with new everything except the R09hr

Schoeps MK4 > nbox+ > (custom RCA > 1/8" cable) > Edirol R-09hr

NOTE: I use the following for stand shows Schoeps MK4 > Schoeps active cable > Schoeps VMS02ib > Marantz 671

I have recorded many shows with the VMS and it sometimes overloads at the really loud rock shows, and always overloads with the pyrotechnic booms... but typically does well with the music.

The nBox+ has had some issues with random shows (but other shows it does fine) so this is not reliable.

I am lucky and end up with good seats down front and close to the PA, so I need something that can get past security, on my body (no 2nd person to help out) and can be run from a jacket and/or cargo pants.

Please let me know what you think will work and why (as best as you can), as 60% of this discussion should be the why not the what IMHO

Please no bashing of someone else's opinion or gear (like I hate schoeps or i hate akg)

Offline itook2much

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2008, 07:43:37 PM »
What problems have you had with the nbox+?  Have you asked Nick about it?

I'd say your gear is more than adequate.  Maybe your location is too close?  Those pyrotechnics put out major SPLs.
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Offline mr qpl

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2008, 08:01:39 PM »
sounds like you can afford a decent set up. I'd go with a brand new set of dpa4061's with a 1/8'' termination, to a BB likely a spsb8 with the variable bass rolloff and keep the r9. should sound great for loud shows where you can get close to the stacks! >:D

Offline Lil Kim Jong-Il

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2008, 08:15:41 PM »


I have used inline selectable attenuators.  You could use those with the VMS and ask Nick to modify the nbox with a defeatable attenuator ahead of the preamp input stage.
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Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2008, 10:31:58 PM »
What problems have you had with the nbox+?  Have you asked Nick about it?

Yes, Nick has had the unit back 2x in the last recent months... and he was never able to replicate the situation.  We did eventually replace the on/off switch which broke in shipment, but this situation just does not seem to be replicatable on an "on demand" situation.

Nick ran it a few times no problem, then I ran it by the board for Derek Truck/Susan Tedeski, for the comparison I posted a week or so back, with no problems.... last week, 3rd row for Stone Temple Pilots... no problems....
Then yesterday for a 7.5 hour rock festival, 99.9% failure rate on approx 6 hours of music :'(

Thumbs up to Nick, but the stress of coming home from the shows to find a 16gb SD full of garble was very disapointing... not to mention the 3 shows in the spring with the same scenario (one small club, one large club and one arena "top 40" act show)

Quote
I'd say your gear is more than adequate.  Maybe your location is too close?  Those pyrotechnics put out major SPLs.

I am not worried about the pyro issue, that I know has no solution and I am 100% OK with that off of any setup..... on the too close, how is that really possible?  I know mics have a max SPL they can take, but my old school CSC never had any issues being inches from a stack or my crappy Sony ECP727p (designed fro MD players or camcorders... before I knew about places like DAT heads to learn about real gear)

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2008, 10:32:47 PM »
sounds like you can afford a decent set up. I'd go with a brand new set of dpa4061's with a 1/8'' termination, to a BB likely a spsb8 with the variable bass rolloff and keep the r9. should sound great for loud shows where you can get close to the stacks! >:D

I may have to look into this... I have a PM from someone with this setup looking for more info on trades or loan/borrowing of gear... so I may have to give this some thought :)

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2008, 10:36:59 PM »
I have used inline selectable attenuators.  You could use those with the VMS and ask Nick to modify the nbox with a defeatable attenuator ahead of the preamp input stage.

I am no engineer, let me say that first here!

To me and my 20 years of taping... this seems like a power issue where the excessively loud shows are burning up the 4 9v batteries faster than you can blink an eye....

or so I thought... when I listened to the headliner from yesterday's show, I get 5 seconds of perfect recording (the radio station's DJ's thanking the crowd BS... it was a radio festival type show) and then all of a sudden, then recording goes garbled and fuzzy... and this was probably less than 1 minute of run time on a brand new set of 9v batteries in the nbox...  so may be the heat plays a role?  the fact that it is run in a jean jacket pocket plays a role?  the deck is too close plays a roll?  I am just at a loss all around

but... I am 99% sure (to get back to the point) that an attenuator need is not at issue here.  I ran for the STP show last week with no problems, and there I was 3rd row center... last night, I was 2nd row right.

So... who knows

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2008, 10:37:17 PM »
and +T all around for the input!

Offline mr qpl

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2008, 11:12:30 PM »
I've used the dpa's and bb set up to either dat or md on line in for 6 years. No overload problems at all. Some shows were ear bleeding loud (using industrial ear protection, but still had to put my hands over my ears. Also the 9v batteries are good for about a year or maybe more (I've replaced mine every nine months or thereabouts, to be safe)

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2008, 06:11:38 AM »
STP you say?

Offline darktrain

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2008, 08:49:01 AM »
you could always get the -10db pads for the schoeps, i myself decided to scale down from the nbox rig in favor of just running my HLSC-1's(4.7k modded) straight into the mic in on my PMD620 because the shows have been turning out really good that way with no issues at all and it is much more :less than open" friendly to haul that around. I have also owned the DPA4061's and would stay away from those also, real hit and miss on the omni's, you need the right location for a great pull or standing right in front of a stack.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 08:53:02 AM by Darktrain »

Offline scb

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2008, 10:30:34 AM »
greg, just sell all the schoeps gear and buy some 4023s :)

Offline orechall

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2008, 10:41:01 AM »
greg, just sell all the schoeps gear and buy some 4023s :)

words of wisdom  ;D
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Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2008, 01:14:38 PM »

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2008, 01:18:42 PM »
greg, just sell all the schoeps gear and buy some 4023s :)

What are they running these days?

I would be lying if I I said I wasn't out looking at the DPA's that are on the market last night after checking the last info file of yours.... 

I wonder if I could sell my entire setup (MK4 x2, vms, nbox, r09, r09hr, 671 and all cables, connectors, jacks, batteries, etc) and fund a 4023 and 722 setup.

My next thought... how to get the 722 past security and run it with out being seen when I hit most all of my shows as a solo act.  How do you run the 722 when stealth... normally I run the schoeps stuff in cargo pants and jacket pockets with ease


Offline darktrain

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2008, 02:07:08 PM »
get the 702, less moving parts, just got one and really like it and down the road i was looking at getting some dpa 4022's, this setup could definately be done "less than open" without much problem in venues with light to no security

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2008, 02:23:53 PM »
Isnt the size and display the same on the 722 and the 702... and the only difference is HD vs CF recording media?

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #17 on: July 28, 2008, 02:28:07 PM »
yep, i think no hard drive is an advantage myself, litttle lighter and runs a little cooler and would save you a little coin toward that setup, what new a set of those dpa's and a 722 would run around 5500.00 with the 702 4800.00-4900.00, you could probably get a used sd but those dpas don't hardly ever show up used.

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #18 on: July 28, 2008, 05:06:58 PM »
Well.... not sure what I could get for my schoeps rig, and it would be one of those situations where I would not sell all of the "add ons" unless the caps, active and pre sold 1st.

I just have so much invested in the add ons and "nice to have" stuff, I would probably end up loosing money in the end.

Decisions, decisions, decisions, sigh

Offline edtyre

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #19 on: July 28, 2008, 05:41:26 PM »
I have run this rig for 60+ shows mostly loud rock shows.
3 failures
once i pulled the active cables out from connector (and that was lucky
because it was rigged and would have failed soon) Nicky fixed the next day
once i used dead batteries (i test them now)
once i used a bad rca cable

not a bad track record
twice i had almost mishaps with rechargeables and only missed minutes

Greg....go back and listen to your Derek and Susan tape. You are keeping your schoeps rig.

music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline scb

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #20 on: July 28, 2008, 10:41:58 PM »
Greg....go back and listen to your Derek and Susan tape. You are keeping your schoeps rig.

but he heard the knopfler, and it made him want the dpas :)

http://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01HQmtXRStubHhFQlE9PQ

Offline edtyre

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2008, 12:04:00 AM »
Greg....go back and listen to your Derek and Susan tape. You are keeping your schoeps rig.

but he heard the knopfler, and it made him want the dpas :)
http://www.yousendit.com/download/Q01HQmtXRStubHhFQlE9PQ

scott, your recording sounds great. I already downloaded it.
I might want a set too :-)
music>mics>pre>recorder

Offline gmm6797

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Re: Your opinion needed... stealth heavy metal rig
« Reply #22 on: July 29, 2008, 02:08:15 AM »
Greg....go back and listen to your Derek and Susan tape. You are keeping your schoeps rig.

I know, I know... every stand nBox show I have done was a success except one where security made me set up as close to the PA as my stand would go, and I blame security not the gear, as all 3 rigs on the stand had the same overload and excessive bass

Nick and I have gone back and forth and he has been most helpful, but it is frustrating to me to not know if the next show I hit will be the next dud.

I did the foo fighters tonight with the mk4>vms>r09hr with no issues... very very frustrating situation

And the Scott Knopfler is damn sweet!

 

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