Topic: Yet another new mics advice thread

[boombox]

Hi all, can't believe I've been a member here over 9 years, but after periods of lurking on and off during that time, this is only my first post.

I have been collecting recordings for about 10 years now (since the first days of sharingthegroove.org), and finally bought an Edirol HR09 about 5 years ago. Its internal mics have served me pretty well over the past few years. However, I'm finally in a position to get some mics and move my recordings up a notch or three, but which ones???  I have been reading and rereading threads here now for nearly a month, but am still undecided To make things easier, I'll try to provide all the info up front. So what do I need?

Source Genre: Regular dimeadozeners will recognise the user name and know my usual recordings tend to be classic 60s rock, folkie singer-songwriters or modern fingerstyle guitar, but I'm not adverse to jambands like Govt Mule or SCI, or some all out heavy rock and classic/modern prog. Fans of Jon Gomm, Preston Reed etc will also know that that percussive style throws out some evil bass frequencies guaranteed to oversaturate/distort your recordings in the same way as a Motorhead gig will - it is this problem that I really want to be able to overcome.

Venues: Everything from sedate sit downs to loud raucous clubs (often with overloud PAs) to larger concert venues or occasional festivals. Whenever possible, I also try to get seats in front of the PA to get a more direct recording.

Budget: Only about $250-300 max as I have to factor in the bloodsucking leeches at the HMRC, who will add on approximately another 30% in customs fees and handling charges when I buy from the US or Canada and import into the UK.

I'm tending towards Church Audio - possibly the omni/cardioid combi package with CA14s. However, if I go down the CA route, it appears from reading many posts here, the CA11s might be better, possibly with interchangeable capsules, or indeed just a set of each type of 11s. There is also the question of the 4.7k mod - does it suit cardioids or omnis better? My other possible is Sound Professionals (but dog knows which ones). There may be further alternatives...

With upwards of 10,000 boots in my collection, I have listened to many recordings done with all these different bits of gear, most good, some great. I see lots of praise for both these companies, but as I can only realistically make a mic purchase once, I need to make sure the kit will serve my purposes.

For those of you who are using these rigs, or indeed Chris or the SP guys, any advice will be appreciated, either in the thread or via PM. The simple question, if you're still reading this, is this: with $300 maximum to spend, what would you buy?

Thanks in advance.

[colinw]

I run the CA14 cards and omnis when not running the big mics and I like them both. I have recorded lots of bands in the genres you list with great results. The value you get for the cost with the CA gear is pretty impressive in my opinion. I assume you will be using a battery box or preamp? That is something else to factor into your budget. If things you record are mostly loud and you don't need extra gain from a preamp you can get away with a battery box.
For the price I think a pair of each type of CA14 you can't go wrong.

Good luck

[F.O.Bean]

I would suggest CA mics as well. I've used them in many different scenario and they have always been consistent

[boombox]

Thanks for the suggestions so far here and via PM. In answer to a couple of things, yes, I fully intend to get some sort of battery power, but while they appear very nice,, those higher end SP packages start to get a little too pricey once you've factored in the battery box/preamp, shipping and customs. Another make someone's suggested to me is Audio Reality - anyone used them in high volume situations?

[Marshall7]

Spend a little more now to get something you'll like and want to stick with, rather than going cheap and having to upgrade in a few months.

[stevetoney]

Regarding your question/comment in the first post, I've always kinda liked the CA-14 sound more than the CA-11.  Remember, the main factor involved with getting good recordings is being in the right location.  CA-14's in the right spot sound fantastic. 

[mec111272]

I agree with Tonedef.  I have run both the CA-11 and the CA-14.  The Ca-14 sound "better" to me.  There is a $100 CA9100 pre in the yard sale right now.  Plenty good enough for almost any application you talked about.  I have also run both the 9100 and the 9200 and for the amplified jamband/rock and roll shows I attend couldn't really tell the difference.

[boombox]

Thanks, all! Keep the responses coming guys. I am tending more towards Church Audio, as, especially with Chris' December offer, they are better value for money too. I know some have suggested holding out and spending more, but I can't really afford to. Positioning is everything, I know  - I have had some amazing results with in-built mics on my trusty Edi when close up, but that won't work with  a louder gig.

The question remains though, if I get a battery box/preamp, will I really need the low sensitivity mod?

[stevetoney]

The question remains though, if I get a battery box/preamp, will I really need the low sensitivity mod?

I was waiting for others to answer this question more definitively, but I was thinking the low sensitivity mod is only done on the AT853 mics and not on the Church Audio mics.  I don't know the model number of the mics that Sound Professionals sell, but they have their own model number for the AT853 mics...or at least that's how it was some years ago. 

From my experience, the stock CA mics along with a battery box or preamp will handle anything you throw at it, soft or loud.

You asked whether the mod is more applicable for omni or cardioid.  Again, I don't think the mod applies to the CA-14 mics.  But IF I'm wrong, I wouldn't think it matters.  The issue is that the 4.7k mod makes the AT853 mics more capable of handling high sound pressure levels without distorting.  That issue is irrespective of the mic pickup pattern.

[mec111272]

These

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165829.0

Into this

http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=165661.0

Into your R09

Other than the crazy white color of the mics and cables this works.  Plenty of modded AT samples on the archives. 

[Ultfris101]

Church audio mics are ready to roll and record loud music with a battery box or preamp. I think he actually includes the 4.7k mod by default when he builds them, or I could be making that up. But either way they're ready to go.

I think you'll be fine getting either the 11's or 14's and I would recommend a 9100 or 9200 preamp. Think hard about whether you want clips on them or not.  Seems like a lot of people decide they didn't want them later.

I got ca-11 cards with clips and used the clips to attach to my shirt collar when I first started and could be open but didn't have a stand. I got some 14 omnis and cards and used the omnis under my shirt for  without clips. There are some clips you can get which are removable that fit.

From there I decided to move to AKGs and all the rest and don't use the CA mics too much anymore but I still think highly of them. Actually I usually use my 9200 with my DPA 4061's when that's the way to go.

[F.O.Bean]

CA mics are "ready to roll"! I used to run CA14(cards/omnis)>9100 as my backup rig and they were very consistent mics.

If you plan on stealt$ing, I would GET them with the clips. If you plan on recording openly with them, I would AVOID the clips, and you can get it-goes-to-eleven to build you an active bar. Either DINa or DIN would be a great start. Setup/tear down is easy as pie after you get those active bars!

Happy Holidays!

[adrianf74]

I've run EVERYTHING under the sun in the way of "small mics" and the 853's were my favourites, however, good luck on finding Omni or Subcard caps for the 853's now.

That being said, the 4061's are WAAAAY overpriced for what they are.  I wanted a good set of omnis in my kit and re-listened to a whack of shows I recorded with them and re-realized why I didn't like them (they sound unnatural for music with the DPA "bump" that's talked about).  The B3's were always muddy to my ears and in no way compared to the 4061's.  The CA-14 omnis treated me well (to the point that I've re-ordered them) and the CA-11 Series II omnis didn't serve me well the one time I used them (however the buyer's been VERY happy with them).

The CA-14 cards are awesome mics for what they are as well. I know Bean's been very happy with them when he's run them in the past.   I've since moved onto AKG Actives, however, the CA-14 omnis are coming back to me. 

My $0.02.

[Church-Audio]

Church audio mics are ready to roll and record loud music with a battery box or preamp. I think he actually includes the 4.7k mod by default when he builds them, or I could be making that up. But either way they're ready to go.

I think you'll be fine getting either the 11's or 14's and I would recommend a 9100 or 9200 preamp. Think hard about whether you want clips on them or not.  Seems like a lot of people decide they didn't want them later.

I got ca-11 cards with clips and used the clips to attach to my shirt collar when I first started and could be open but didn't have a stand. I got some 14 omnis and cards and used the omnis under my shirt for  without clips. There are some clips you can get which are removable that fit.

From there I decided to move to AKGs and all the rest and don't use the CA mics too much anymore but I still think highly of them. Actually I usually use my 9200 with my DPA 4061's when that's the way to go.

I created the mod that others are using free of charge. Its funny how that works. 

[hoppedup]

Spend a little more now to get something you'll like and want to stick with, rather than going cheap and having to upgrade in a few months.

Not true for everyone. I've been running Church Audio mics/pre-amp for almost five years.

To the OP, I started with CA-11 cards and now have the CA-14 omnis/cards and 9100. If the 9200 had been available when I bought my CA package, I would have opted for it as I record a lot of acoustic music. If you only plan to have one recorder for a while, the CA-11 with two sets of caps would work fine. I have three recorders so I like having the CA-14s omni/cards as separate mic pairs so I can run them both at the same time.