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Author Topic: Stealth Taping Cable Static  (Read 4520 times)

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Offline tobydodds

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Stealth Taping Cable Static
« on: September 07, 2023, 08:53:21 AM »
Still breaking in my stealth taping rig.  I record stealth with Sennheiser MKE Golds, a pair safety pinned on my shoulders.  I then connect the mini male plugs to a Y cable that goes mini in to my Church Ugly Battery Box and then out to my Sony A10.

Recorded Luna at the Atlantis, DC last night and on one channel there is a bunch of static from the cable connects.  My question is how do I secure those connections and prevent this from happening?  I think it occurs because I move around a bit.  Do I have to stand still?  I don't know if I can abide by that.  I don't need to dance but want to feel free to move around without worrying about my cables feeding back.

I've attached a WAV form that shows the outcome last night and also a shot of my cables.  Thanks tapers for your help!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 09:42:06 AM by tobydodds »

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2023, 09:26:47 AM »
Can you post a sample of both channels? The only thing that will help with rustling is to secure the capsule, short of any software plug-ins.

If it is a mechanical issue with the cable, hopefully it is at the connection end.
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Offline Twenty8

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2023, 09:37:58 AM »
Agree with DP that you should post samples.  Gaff tape is a great problem solver.  I always keep a strip or two on the back of my deck when I stealth.
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Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2023, 09:45:19 AM »
Thanks!  I just posted audio samples.  I figured tape was my next step and Gaff tape sounds cool. I wondered if there wasn't a more robust solution.  The Senn mini jacks have female threading to tighten but I'd need a Y cable with the ability to connect with male threaded ends and I don't know if those are available.

Offline dyneq

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2023, 09:49:16 AM »
Rig it up exactly like you would when you roll. Find a quiet space, and plug some headphones (preferably IEMs) into the recorder. Start record mode and set the output volume so that you can easily hear mic input. Beginning at each capsule where the cable enters, gently bend and flex each section of cable, working your way down until you arrive at the recorder.

Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2023, 10:04:44 AM »
Thanks.  I've ordered gaffer tape and will be taping again tomorrow night at the Black Cat, DC (Messthetics, Flasher, Ex-Hex).  We'll see if the tape does the trick.  What I really want is a Y cable with male threaded ends to connect the mics in style.  If you guys have any ideas about how to get that piece let me know.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2023, 10:35:57 AM »
My question is how do I secure those connections and prevent this from happening?  I think it occurs because I move around a bit.  Do I have to stand still?  I don't know if I can abide by that.  I don't need to dance but want to feel free to move around without worrying about my cables feeding back.

Welcome to stealth recording!  A significant practical aspect of self-worn recording setups is minimizing noise from clothing, cables, and connections.  You can do things that will allow you to move around without creating distracting noise on the recording.  That said, there will also be times when something is not just right and you'll find you need to choose between standing still to make a good recording verses saying fuck it and just enjoying the music. Unfortunately the only ways to know something is not quite right is by either rigging up beforehand and plugging in some headphones to listening for noise or other problems while moving around, or by noticing a problem while recording from looking at the visual meters.  And in that second case noise problems are likely to go unnoticed unless egregious.

What to do:
First make sure your connections are clean and tight fitting.  Clean all connection contacts with 90% isopropyl alcohol or some kind of electrical contact cleaner.  With them wet with solvent, plug-unplug a bunch of times and wiggle turn them all around.  This is often the first thing that goes wrong and is easy to fix.

If the connections are mini-plug/mini-jack TRS, gaff tape them to prevent them from partly or fully disconnecting.  The biggest problem with TRS connections is that most of them are non-locking.  Gaff taping them together substitutes for locking.  After dealing with this for years I converted all my stealth connections from mini-plug to locking mini-xlr except the mini-jacks of recorder itself because they are positive locking and much easier to deal with.  I still gaff tape those connections to the recorder.  Threaded mini-jack is an alternately locking method, but both sides need to have the mating threads.

Make efforts to minimize fabric noise around the microphones, and to minimize solid-born noise transmitted through the mic cable.  When actively listening for noise or other problems with headphones, move around to find the limits of how much movement you can get away with before you notice noise.  Maybe put a loop of cable near the microphone to reduce direct tugging being transmitted through the cable to the microphone as you move.  The other things in this list tend to be more about them working correctly or not in a binary way, but this part is always variable and defines the creative art of stealthing.  As long as everything else is working correctly, this will be biggest variable over which you have control that effects how wildly you can move around without creating noise.

Make sure the cables and soldered termination connections are sound and free of intermittency.  Worn cables tend to suffer from more wear abuse than larger open-recording cables and require re-soldering, reworking, or replacement more often.  If your gear is new this is unlike to be a problem now, but will be sometime in the future.


Other considerations:
How loud the music is effects strongly effects the audibility of much of this.  You can move around a lot more and get away with other noise problems when the music is loud verses very quiet acoustic music where you will need to remain more still.  But even with the quietest stuff you can set things up to allow movement without being statute like.

Other than noise, your own movement can effect stereo image, and some setups will be more susceptible to this than others.  Your setup is less susceptible to this than other common methods.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 10:37:37 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2023, 11:28:48 AM »
Thanks for the awesome reply.  I'm going to "lock" the connections with gaffer tape and head out tomorrow to try again and will let you know how it goes.  Do you guys know anyone who might custom build me a Y cable with threaded male ends that would fit my Senns?

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2023, 11:30:36 AM »
Thanks!  I just posted audio samples.

It's definitely your mic capsules rubbing your clothes/hat/etc. Once you secure those, you should be good to go.
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Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2023, 11:37:50 AM »
Thanks.  If it's the capsules rubbing on my shirt that's a bigger challenge actually.  I've been trying to avoid clipping them to my glasses as it feels really restrictive and pretty noticeable.  I'd like to pin them to my shoulders or body but this is a challenge if I have to worry about the capsules rubbing on my shirt fabric.

Offline nulldogmas

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2023, 11:54:46 AM »
Thanks.  If it's the capsules rubbing on my shirt that's a bigger challenge actually.  I've been trying to avoid clipping them to my glasses as it feels really restrictive and pretty noticeable.  I'd like to pin them to my shoulders or body but this is a challenge if I have to worry about the capsules rubbing on my shirt fabric.

Are they under your shirt or on top of it? And do they have windscreens? Trying to picture your setup and what could be rubbing.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2023, 01:12:50 PM »
Yeah, this is where stealth creativity comes to the fore.

Think about ways to secure the mics so they don't shift around too much.. or maybe in such a way that they always move with the fabric rather than the fabric moving against them counter to them. Think about ways to prevent the fabric from rubbing against the microphone, especially the grating or openings.  If the fabric must contact the microphone or something attached to it, make sure the contact surface which the fabric comes into contact with is as smooth as possible.  Windscreen foam is rough and will make noise when fabric rubs across it. Try different shirts, different fabrics, tighter or looser, etc.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 03:40:27 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2023, 01:39:57 PM »
I cut a small hole in each shoulder and then thread the lavalier through it so just the capsule pokes through.  Turn the shirt inside out and pinch the fabric and poke it through with a safety pin.  Come to think of it I didn't have this problem with my flannel shirt which I used in the colder months but it's summer and I've got it pinned to a soft cotton button up shortsleeve shirt that is less stable I guess.  Man, I really hope I can get this sorted.  I love getting wired up and not having to fuss at all.  I'm also amazed at how people don't notice or care.  I walked right through security last night, no problem with the metal detector and I just dropped the recorder into the bin with my keys and cellphone.

Offline goodcooker

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2023, 02:04:57 PM »
Get a black ball cap and mount the mics on the sides of the bill. Run the cables around back and secure them to the back of the hat then down the inside of the back of your shirt. Having the cables secured will minimize how much the mics move when you move and the bill of a hat is less likely to make noise when/if the mics rub against it compared to most shirt fabric.

The disadvantage is that when you turn your head the stereo image will move too - but you said you move around anyway so that's probably not much of a concern.

I don't do a lot of stealth taping but when I do I find a place to put the mics and recorder and go enjoy the show - a table top with a shirt tossed over them, a column with the mics taped to the sides and the recorder in a cloth bag, a ledge with a clear line of sight to the PA....there's lots of ways to avoid contact noise by eliminating contact.

Here's some examples of NOT wearing the gear -

outside venue mics and recorder sitting on top of a power outlet box near FOH in plain sight of the crew - https://soundcloud.com/roger-cox-7/sets/stephenmarley-subatomicsoundsystem-mixtape

inside venue mics and recorder on a table in line with the stack - https://soundcloud.com/roger-cox-7/sets/wailers-2023-04-11

Having some gaffers tape wound around a lighter or sharpie in your pocket can be clutch when you need to get creative mounting lightweight mics somewhere.
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Offline nassau73

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2023, 02:11:46 PM »
Get a black ball cap and mount the mics on the sides of the bill. Run the cables around back and secure them to the back of the hat then down the inside of the back of your shirt. Having the cables secured will minimize how much the mics move when you move and the bill of a hat is less likely to make noise when/if the mics rub against it compared to most shirt fabric.

The disadvantage is that when you turn your head the stereo image will move too - but you said you move around anyway so that's probably not much of a concern.


You can also mount them inside some croakies. Sound Professionals has the instructions at their website. And yes it's true if you move your head side to side the image will move. However, if you bob your head up and down rather than side to side, it's fine.

The croakies instructions BTW have worked with Audio Reality, AT933 and SP-CMC-4u mics (even though the SP-CMC's are much larger).

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2023, 04:26:36 PM »
Type of shirt is one of the primary keys to success or failure using your method.  You may need to carefully select a few that you know work well.

Goodcooker's mention of stealthily placing a rig elsewhere than on yourself is a very good one when applicable, especially when there are tables.

When that isn't applicable, a hat like he mentions or a glasses rig like nassau73 mentions are the general go to approaches for most tapers.  Primary benefit of them is it gets the mics up as high as possible, making getting a clear line of sight from PA to mics more likely, which can make it more suitable for tightly packed standing concerts in addition to seated ones where there is more space around you and the mics need not be as high to achieve a good direct line of sight.  Secondarily it allows for the use of a microphone configuration that is closer to standard open microphone configurations: a near-spaced arrangement using directional mics, or HRTF style using the head as a baffle.  Primary drawbacks are not being able to turn your head much, having to wear the hat or glasses, and dealing with some partly exposed wiring unless you sport hair longer than collar length.

Personally, I strongly dislike having to hold my head still and not look all around, tend to record in situations were a hat is not acceptable and don't like wearing a hat indoors anyway, am frequently in situations where I cannot have any exposed wires, and am mostly recording at seated venues where there is more space between audience members even if everyone ends up standing up rather than sitting, so I prefer using alternate methods which work much better for me given all of these constraints.

There are generally common approaches to worn microphone rigs but no single best answer for how to do it that is going to apply to all stealth tapers and situations.  Keep playing around with ideas and you will figure out what works best for you in the situations in which you record, informed by the advice you receive here and your own creative scheming.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2023, 04:29:25 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2023, 05:04:51 PM »
This is a great response, thanks.  I'm really hesitant to make my head a mic stand.  I like to drink beer and move my head around too much...  I got some gaffer tape, maybe I'll try using that to better secure the mic on my shirt at the shoulders.

When I'm not hearing my shirt rub on my mic it sounds pretty solid.  Here's a sample from the encore last night.  Marquee Moon (Television) cover by Luna.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/q00ulmb27xowpg9af2507/marquee-moon-by-luna.mp3?rlkey=qwax98nnn570n8oalvvsxzddv&dl=0

Offline robgronotte

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2023, 07:26:37 PM »
I would like to hear the whole recording, hope you share it.  For this one, just make it a mono recording of the good channel, it will probably sound almost as good as the stereo recording would have sounded.

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #18 on: September 08, 2023, 09:08:24 AM »
This is a great response, thanks.  I'm really hesitant to make my head a mic stand.  I like to drink beer and move my head around too much...  I got some gaffer tape, maybe I'll try using that to better secure the mic on my shirt at the shoulders.

When I'm not hearing my shirt rub on my mic it sounds pretty solid.  Here's a sample from the encore last night.  Marquee Moon (Television) cover by Luna.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/q00ulmb27xowpg9af2507/marquee-moon-by-luna.mp3?rlkey=qwax98nnn570n8oalvvsxzddv&dl=0

Sounds like you know what you're doing from the results. Follow the advice given RE: mic rubbing and you will make great tapes.

BTW I PM'd you yesterday with some additional info.
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Offline seethreepo

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #19 on: September 08, 2023, 11:45:19 AM »
also  try cleaning all contacts (at least male ones) w isopropyl Alcohol I keep small alchohol wipes in my bag.
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Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #20 on: September 08, 2023, 01:29:05 PM »
I'll try and give a listen this weekend.

Even though its not really click type noise, you might be able to reduce the severity of the problem in your recordings that have already been made with a "de-click" routine or something similar if available in your editing software. Look at whatever is available to reduce noise in LP transfers. I think it works because those type of noise reduction routines tend to target impulsive sounds that are stronger in one channel than the other, and I suspect your cable noise probably fits that description.  I've done this in the past to remove minor fabric rubbing noise that occurred over the course of some very quiet classical recordings, and it worked amazingly well, but cant remember exactly what routine I used.  It was something built into Samplitude, may have been in in Cleaning and Restoration suite, which used to be a separate add on but is now integrated.  The routines in other editors and things like Izotope RX are likely similar.  You do need to set them carefully to just reduce the offending noise without collateral damage.  Takes some trial and error.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2023, 01:31:41 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #21 on: September 08, 2023, 07:08:49 PM »
I'm taking these steps.

Gaff tape the mic's in to the Y cable.
Added caps to the mic capsules, they were going commando previously
Am taking extra care with my safety pinning of the mic capsules to my shoulder and shirt, taping the interior.  Capsules just peaking out a hole in the fabric.  Fingers crossed.

Headed out shortly to record Messthetics, Flasher, Gray Matter, and Ex Hex.  Wish me luck!

Offline bonghitwillie

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #22 on: September 08, 2023, 10:33:31 PM »
you dont have to stealth that black cat show. i would just gaff tape the mics to the pole up front near the right speaker.

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #23 on: September 08, 2023, 11:42:52 PM »
I would love to hear Ex Hex, and some of the bands from the second might if you go to that.
I used to live around DC and went to lots of TeenBeat shows and lots more at the Black Cat.

Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #24 on: September 09, 2023, 12:47:43 AM »
Just got back, either the gaff tape on the y cable or the caps did the trick.  No static on the line, phew!  The show was killer and I'm back tomorrow and will share all here.  Messthetics were sublime.

Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2023, 08:46:46 AM »
Just messaged all of who helped here with my recordings from the weekend.  Not a drop of static in the bunch and I recorded nine bands in two days!  Great forum right here.

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2023, 09:45:18 AM »
Just messaged all of who helped here with my recordings from the weekend.  Not a drop of static in the bunch and I recorded nine bands in two days!  Great forum right here.

Nice work  :clapping:, can't wait to listen even though I've never heard of any of these bands  :)
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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2023, 10:30:37 AM »
Judging by your avatar, you should definitely crank up Messthetics.  They are an instrumental jazz/rock trio with Brendan Canty and Joe Lally - the rhythm section of legendary DC band Fugazi - and an absolute monster of a guitar player Anthony Pirog shredding on guitar.  It's actually a bit Phish-like at times, definitely jamming.

Offline unidentified

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2023, 01:48:44 PM »
Like what the man said. That trio is absolutely astonishing.

Offline Gutbucket

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2023, 12:33:57 PM »
When I'm not hearing my shirt rub on my mic it sounds pretty solid.  Here's a sample from the encore last night.  Marquee Moon (Television) cover by Luna.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/q00ulmb27xowpg9af2507/marquee-moon-by-luna.mp3?rlkey=qwax98nnn570n8oalvvsxzddv&dl=0

Sounds good to me.  I think the configuration is working quite well.  Fortunately the only noise I notice is at the end after the music finishes, and yep, familiar with that sound.  Its definitely loud enough there that you'd see it on the recorder's meters if you were looking at them, say if troubleshooting immediately before or between sets without headphones available.

Glad you got it sorted!
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Niels

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2023, 07:55:44 AM »
Do you guys know anyone who might custom build me a Y cable with threaded male ends that would fit my Senns?
Just a thought; did you remove the locking rings from the Sennheisers?
I have a similar setup with RØDE Lavaliers, and if the locking rings aren’t removed, the connection is extremely fragile. The locking rings should be removed when using a non locking Y cable.

Cheers
N
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Offline tobydodds

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2023, 08:37:46 AM »
Do you guys know anyone who might custom build me a Y cable with threaded male ends that would fit my Senns?
Just a thought; did you remove the locking rings from the Sennheisers?
I have a similar setup with RØDE Lavaliers, and if the locking rings aren’t removed, the connection is extremely fragile. The locking rings should be removed when using a non locking Y cable.

Cheers
N
I believe this is the cause as well but the locking wheels seem rather permanent.  Taping the cable connects between mics and Y cable are what surely fixed the noise issue.  Thanks!

Offline DavidPuddy

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Re: Stealth Taping Cable Static
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2023, 09:34:07 AM »
Do you guys know anyone who might custom build me a Y cable with threaded male ends that would fit my Senns?
Just a thought; did you remove the locking rings from the Sennheisers?
I have a similar setup with RØDE Lavaliers, and if the locking rings aren’t removed, the connection is extremely fragile. The locking rings should be removed when using a non locking Y cable.

Cheers
N
I believe this is the cause as well but the locking wheels seem rather permanent.  Taping the cable connects between mics and Y cable are what surely fixed the noise issue.  Thanks!

If you want a permanent solution, you could remove the connectors and solder both mics to a stereo plug.
Mics: mk4v/mk41v/mk22 > CMC1L/Nbobs, 4061, MKE2
Preamps: Mixpre-D, Nbox Platinum ABS
Recorders: Mixpre-6 ii, PCM-A10

 

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