Topic: Newbie with new equipment (Olympus LS-10)

[placenta]

Hi all,

I just got my brand new Olympus LS-10 in the house, and it looks and feels great. I recorded 3-4 shows on minidisc around 10 years ago, but since then haven´t done any recording at all.

I still have my Marantz EM-8 microphone (stereo) that worked fine back in the days. As a "newbie", and due to the fact that I´ll be taping at least 3 (maybe 4) Green Day-shows on their European tour, I would like to make sure that everything sounds as good as possible.

1) Will my Marantz EM-8 do the job?

2) What are the recommended recording settings on the Olympus LS-10?

I also have loads of questions regarding the process from getting the files organized in order to share them, but I see there are loads of threads on that, so I´ll try to read some more about if before I ask


Thanks a lot for your help!


-placenta

[fmaderjr]

Will my Marantz EM-8 do the job?

It may sound OK to your ears, but you don't really want to use a cheap mic with a good recorder. A better mic > your old mini-disc is going to sound better than your old mic > your new LS-10. See this thread:
http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,125698.0.html

I recommend getting one of the Church Audio mics and a battery box. Even his entry level CA-11 (which you can get with both cardiod & omni caps) is capable of making great sounding recordings.

If you don't want to use a battery box, Chris can design some of his mics so that they can be powered correctly by the recorder's plug in power. I know he can do this with the somewhat more expensive CA-14 models. Not sure if he can with the ST-11, but I wouldn't be surprised if he could.

[sunjan]

^^what he said.
Your current mic likely has a limited frequency range, which means you wouldn't be able to use your recorder to its full potential.

Also, moving to stealthable cards gives you stealth advantage (no need to handhold that mic anymore!).

The LS-10 has a "hardcoded" bass roll off when you go mic-in, which is a bad thing. Use the search here and read more.
When budget allows, you should get an external preamp and go line in, just like fmaderjr said. Any of the Church combos is ideal for stealth.

[fmaderjr]

When budget allows, you should get an external preamp and go line in, just like fmaderjr said. Any of the Church combos is ideal for stealth.

Love the ST-9100 preamp and all the Church mics I've tried (CA-11 cards/omnis and CA-14 cards). The CA-14 omnis are supposed to be great as well (the only reason I haven't bought a pair is that I already have DPA 4060's).

Not too crazy about the much smaller UGLY pre because the levels need to be adjusted with a mini screwdriver. The ST-9100 is plenty small enough for me and is great for on the fly adjustments.

[placenta]

Thanks for all the advice so far. I'll take a closer look at the equipment you recommend, and see what I'll end up with. I'll keep you all informed


On the other hand; What are the recommended recording settings on the Olympus LS-10? I feel kind of confused at the moment 

[su6oxone]

On the other hand; What are the recommended recording settings on the Olympus LS-10? I feel kind of confused at the moment 

Search is your friend man, but I'm nice so I did it for you:

http://taperssection.com/index.php/topic,96477.0.html

[rjp]

On the other hand; What are the recommended recording settings on the Olympus LS-10? I feel kind of confused at the moment 

Get into your car and crank the stereo as loud as you can stand it, then turn it up a bit louder. I've found that I don't want the level higher than about 5 (and 4-4.5 provides some safety margin) when using the internal mics or Sound Professionals' SP-TFB-2 binaurals. Then again, I usually record classical (but that can get pretty loud too).

If you're recording line-in, set the LS-10's level control to max and adjust levels with the preamp. I've used an E-MU 0404 USB's analog output with excellent results.

Regarding the hardwired bass rolloff on the mic input, I've found that it has not been a problem when I've used my SP-TFB-2 mics - I've had some fantastic pulls with them and have not needed to EQ them, even when the instrument in question was a pipe organ or double bass. Other mics may need EQ, or an external preamp.

Of course, wearing SP-TFB-2s in-ear has its own issues - you have to be real careful not to swallow except during applause... although wearing the windscreens will greatly reduce this problem.

When using the internal mics, I normally use the curve shown below, in Audacity. You can paste it into your EQCurves.xml file (in Windows XP it's usually C:\Documents and Settings\your-user-name\Application Data\Audacity\EQCurves.xml).

Code: [Select]

<curve name="ls10-bass-correction">
<point f="20.000000000000" d="15.000000000000"/>
<point f="21.690731734740" d="14.529069900513"/>
<point f="22.567130119872" d="14.058139801025"/>
<point f="25.113581021036" d="13.116278648376"/>
<point f="27.456617564581" d="12.126466498056"/>
<point f="44.164426269882" d="7.113895668233"/>
<point f="51.746515714852" d="5.913194229821"/>
<point f="114.267758900593" d="2.407067105140"/>
<point f="133.885094431369" d="2.024605062840"/>
<point f="156.870307804764" d="1.674418568611"/>
<point f="215.356402431673" d="1.014192434516"/>
<point f="295.647919082519" d="0.627906978130"/>
<point f="405.874592400641" d="0.094465671831"/>
<point f="24000.000000000018" d="0.000000000000"/>
</curve>


[fmaderjr]

When using the internal mics, I normally use the curve shown below, in Audacity.

I highly recommend not using internal mics for anything critical. I downloaded a recording of Vauhgn Williams' Sea Symphony done with the internals and it was immediately obvious that it was made with substandard mics (and it was not just a matter of excessive bass roll off).

I'm pretty sure I read a post by Chris Church that I can't now locate saying that the the LS-10 internals make the Zoom H2 sound like a Neumann.

[rjp]

I highly recommend not using internal mics for anything critical. I downloaded a recording of Vauhgn Williams' Sea Symphony done with the internals and it was immediately obvious that it was made with substandard mics (and it was not just a matter of excessive bass roll off).

I'm pretty sure I read a post by Chris Church that I can't now locate saying that the the LS-10 internals make the Zoom H2 sound like a Neumann.

I made that recording - thanks for the encouragement. 

I was also a member of the chorus - and the size of the chorus (only about 10% more people than the orchestra) and its placement (the chorus was behind the proscenium, and the percussion was up higher than the first chorus row) did not help matters. In addition, my only option for mic placement was the balcony. If I had the time to set up and a power source available, I'd have set up my AKG 170s instead of the internals, but that wouldn't have stopped the orchestra from occasionally drowning out the chorus. In an ideal world, I'd have a 744, a pair of cards pointing at the orchestra, and a pair of shotguns pointing at the chorus, but this isn't an ideal world.

If my finances allowed it, I'd be getting a Littlebox... that would give me the power for the 170s. Yes, that's right, I can't afford a Littlebox right now.

As for how the LS-10 stacks up to the H2, you can judge for yourself - the same performance was also recorded with an H2.
LS-10 source here
H2 source here
Caveat: the H2 recording used an external mic, and the H2's mic input is infamous for noise. Eric (the H2 owner, and tympanist) used to record with MiniDisc, and ran the mic he used with the MD recorder.

It would be interesting to have samples of the H2 internals in a direct shootout, though. I'd prefer to judge for myself rather than accept the word of someone who has a vested interest in selling microphones. Yes, I've heard wonderful pulls from Chris's mics - I'm not at all knocking his products.

That would be interesting - LS-10 internals, vs. H2 internals, vs. KM184 > 7xx, all at the same performance?  I'm sure the KM184s would stomp both, though... even my low-budget AKGs are noticeably better than the internals when I can set them up.

[su6oxone]

I downloaded a recording of Vauhgn Williams' Sea Symphony done with the internals and it was immediately obvious that it was made with substandard mics (and it was not just a matter of excessive bass roll off).

I made that recording - thanks for the encouragement. 

 

[fmaderjr]

I made that recording - thanks for the encouragement. 

Sorry! I should learn to keep my mouth shut. I should add that I loved the performance and you should be proud to be a member of that chorus. I Just heard certain spots in the recording that didn't sound right (and I'm not very critical).

The LS-10 is a fine recorder, but like most of them, doesn't do too well with the internals except for speech. You really should try to find a way to record with good externals-you'd be amazed at the difference.

If you really want a small recorder with great internals, get a used R-09 (not the HR) and send it to Chris Church for the Micsketeer mod.

The Zoom H2 has pretty good internals, but is not a good choice for running externals. The LS-10 would run rings around it.

[rjp]

You really should try to find a way to record with good externals-you'd be amazed at the difference.

I've done so at my church, using my 170s and E-MU 0404 USB, into the LS-10 line in - it sounds great. I need either: a Littlebox, or, a regulated 5VDC battery supply for the 0404. Then I won't need to depend on having a wall socket handy.

I've made a few binaural recordings using the SP-TFB-2s, and those are absolutely killer through headphones. If you can keep quiet and still, they will reward you. I don't feel that I can post those recordings publicly though... especially my latest pull. *

I've tried using the 0404 USB directly into several laptops. Never again. I got vinyl-like clicks and pops every time, no matter what I did on the laptop (disabling all non-essential devices, and so on). In my experience, it's only suitable as a direct USB recording device when used with a desktop machine.

If I had remote power for the 0404, a bit bucket would be an option - it has optical and coax outs, and you can route the mics to SPDIF with the touch of a button.

* Yes, I know there's DIME, but I don't want to go that route.

[fmaderjr]

I need either: a Littlebox, or, a regulated 5VDC battery supply for the 0404. Then I won't need to depend on having a wall socket handy.

I just got a Littlebox and can highly recommend it.

[placenta]

Thank you all again for good advice!

I've been reading through threads on this forum as well as other places on the web. Seems to be a lot of good equipment out there, so the confusion is huge at the moment, hehe.

I've understood that the LS-10 can power certain microphones through the microphone input, does this mean that I could get a set of microphones that uses external power, and use the LS-10 to power them? I think I'll go for that solution now in the beginning, and expand to extra equipment later. Any good recommendations?

1) I've looked at these; http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U but i think they need an extra power source?

2) Is it this kind of microphones that are referred to as "stealth microphones"?

3) Any other microphones in the same league (both in price and "look") that I should consider?


Once again - thanks a LOT for a great forum!

[su6oxone]

1) I've looked at these; http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-4U but i think they need an extra power source?

2) Is it this kind of microphones that are referred to as "stealth microphones"?

3) Any other microphones in the same league (both in price and "look") that I should consider?

1. Yes, the 'plug-in' power of the LS-10 won't be enough to power those mics.  You will need a battery box (Sound Pro sells them) or a small preamp like the Church Audio 9100 preamp (see the retail subforum here).

2. Well, it could be called a "stealth microphone" since it is small and easily "stealthable." 

3. Check out the retail subforum, you may want to consider the Church Audio mics (CA-11 or CA-14) and preamps (9100 or the stealth preamp 'ugly') as they are affordable and good quality according to those who use them.  You can also consider the microphone madness mics (HLSC-1) as well.