Topic: Powered Microphones (via bbox) do I need them in this case?

[RoganSarine]

I'm looking at getting 5 lavalier microphones such as this:
http://www.giant-squid-audio-lab.com/gs/gs-mono.html

However, I noticed they are recommended with a battery-box/plugin power. To me, it seems that's only for taping scenarios.

I was wondering if I would need a battery box for each of the microphones if I'm just going to be plugging them into a mixer for a podcast. The volumes wouldn't be high pressure like a concert, but it would be from a whisper to yelling.

I'm just trying to reduce distortion, and if I have to buy a box, it'd be cheaper to spend $100 ea. on a Shure/Audio Technica lav.

Thoughts? I'm not a big know-how when it comes to the electrical part of taping.

[fmaderjr]

I'll have to leave it to someone else to answer the question you asked, but I can tell you that you shouldn't buy Giant Squid Mics under any conditions. They really suck and are universally trashed here.

[RoganSarine]

Really? Huh. Never saw a thread about them here outright... quick search. Yeah... I'll see if I can find another brand. Clipping is my major concern - I already had my reserves. Especially when I sent an email to him on Wednesday and havn't received a response yet. Church has so spoiled me.

I really just need a lavalier, and I don't particularly want to spend $500 on 5.

[RoganSarine]

That's what I thought... I was hoping for a double check on the necessity of plug-in power.

Yours are priced extremely well when compared to most Lav's, especially for a pair.

Makes me actually want to try Naiant gear for taping to see the difference between my CA's. I've always wanted to try, but I'm heading more towards a multitrack recorder with cards for room ambiance. It's more reliable to pull venue sound I find (then again, I don't have much gear to experiment with).

Do the paired microphones share a XLR cable, or is it just literally to make sure they have the same response because they're made with the same batch of parts? Naiant gear is atleast a brand I trust... consider me to get 5 so far. What's the cable length?

[RoganSarine]

Ah, matched pair are stereo config using a single XLR jack (I assume). For some reason I thought $50x2 was above $110.

Just wanted to make sure that the cable was long enough on it's own to fall beneath clothes. You got me sold, thanks for bringing up that you guys had Lav's... didn't even notice. I only remember you guys having the capsule condensers.

[RoganSarine]

Gotcha. Makes me wonder what would be the most efficient way of doing field recordings (ie: how could I possibly use atleast 4 inputs)... probably with 2 Zooms would be my best bet.

I'll be ordering 5 in the next day or two. Can't wait to see how they sound for a podcast and (more interestingly) recording voice in a somewhat louder environment (ie: inside a building at a concert, for funs). Most Lavaliers are condenser omnidirectional mics, so I always wonder if productions just have no background russling noise, or if they're pretty good at just negating sound because the speakers voice overpower it.

[acidjack]

You're making a wise move going with Jon's X-X mics.  I bought them for a music application and was extremely impressed with the results.  And the price can't be beat!  For a podcast, they should be more than adequate.

[brad.bartels]

You don't want to use two recorders for any length of time as their clocks will drift apart (unless they can digitally sync, which most can't)--you would have to cut at each song and manually realign, which can work OK if the songs aren't too long.  But it's best to get a 4-track recorder to avoid that problem.

^^

If you want a reasonably priced, compact 4 channel recorder you can get a Tascam DR-2D new for $150 these days. I just ordered one for running mics + SBD, $150 on Amazon, but I'm reasonably sure you can run 2 sets of mics into it from what I've read. If you have time and patience, you may be able to get a used one for less than that in the yard sale or on eBay. I didn't see any right now in either place and I wanted to use it in a couple of weeks. Not sure if that model is discontinued or not, I kind of assumed it is - I looked at B&H and Sweetwater to see what their pricing was and it is no longer available at either place.

[RoganSarine]

You don't want to use two recorders for any length of time as their clocks will drift apart (unless they can digitally sync, which most can't)--you would have to cut at each song and manually realign, which can work OK if the songs aren't too long.  But it's best to get a 4-track recorder to avoid that problem.

I've been cutting at each song and manually realigning for years, my current recorders seem to do pretty good. But, I never havn't realigned after 5 minutes... that may explain the one time I tried to after an interview I had to keep re-syncing one of the audio boxes.

@Brad Bartels: The Zoom H4N can have 4 different mono channels, or 2 stereo channels. It's a great little 4 channel recorder if you don't gotta put the gain up above 70 (it starts getting noise around 60). You use the mic-in and the 2 XLR line-in's in conjunction.

My main wonder would be the best way to sync multiple portable XLR inputs. Like, could I lock 2 professional cameras like the Canon XF105's together... Interesting to think about anyway, when I want to use 5 different inputs instead of 4 portably.

[RoganSarine]

You don't want to use two recorders for any length of time as their clocks will drift apart (unless they can digitally sync, which most can't)--you would have to cut at each song and manually realign, which can work OK if the songs aren't too long.  But it's best to get a 4-track recorder to avoid that problem.

Hey Jon,

Sorry fo the double post, but I actually just had something brought to my attention. Would there be anyway to supply enough phantom power to the X-X mic and turn the output into a 3.5mm jack?

The reason I ask is because most XLR portable recorders are fairly larger, and the 3.5mm is the input of most wireless transmitters. If I wanted to use the lav as a computer mic/concealed lav mic, we'd want to reduce the form factor that XLR needs on one mic. Is there an "extremely" small (and preferably not huge costing) option to supply the mic with the phantom power it needs, while getting that 3.5mm form factor to plug into a transmitter or smaller recorder?

I'm not entirely sure how small the Tiny Box is, and if there's a smaller option. I'm still interested in 5 microphones, though. Making the purchase now.

Edit: This makes me sound like I want to use it for stealthing the mic, which isn't why I want to conceal it. It's primarily for my video shorts - not for taping... incase anyone asks.

[RoganSarine]

I don't quite follow you; the X-X capsule size doesn't change even if it terminates on the other side to miniplug vs. XLR.  The capsule runs on low volt power, the XLR converts phantom power to low-volt and balances its output as well.  I can splice in a miniplug/jack connector on the leads, but you should be aware that every brand of bodypack has its own connection standard, so you'd need adaptor cables for the specific type of bodypack you are using.  Bodypacks supply low-volt power.

Also, wireless is *not* cheap, depending on the quality you get you are looking at $200 to $700 per channel.

I'd only be using wireless on 1 microphone (not on all 5) - so it's not a super large investment.

Since I know the X-X has phantom power, I didn't know what voltage it needs to properly run. From what I understand, 3.5mm1/8" plug-in power (the plug of a body pack) wouldn't hit 12V, 24V and definitely not 48V. My question stems from not reading the minimum voltage the X-X requires. If I can simply use an XLR female to 3.5mm converter cable and use plug-in power on the 3.5mm jack without a problem, I can do that. I just thought I may need an XLR battery box (with a 1/8" output) to make it run properly for voice.

Does that clear things up? (note to self: don't write replies at 1AM).

[RoganSarine]

Bodypacks usually output 5V.

The X-X requires 12V-48V phantom power, however, its capsule is running on 12V and can run as low as 3V.  So the circuit inside the XLR is converting 12V-48V phantom power to the low voltage the capsule requires.  Thus, it's possible to splice in a connector that enables the capsule to be run on lower voltage than phantom.

This is similar to the way many of these capsules work, such as Shure MX183, AT U853.  The difference there is those are primary designed as bodypack or installed sound mics, with an XLR adaptor where phantom is required, whereas the X-X is primarily designed as a phantom-powered mic, avoiding the need for expensive mini-XLR connectors unless bodypack connection is required.

So, just to clarify... what you're saying... I can run the X-X's on a M10 with a XLR->mini plug cable if I use plug-in power?

Also, would there be any issue using the same procedure, say, plugging into the mic input of a computer (which as far as I know... DOESN'T provide any plug-in power?), or do I need to buy something like an Art Phantom II (or is there something cheaper)?

If the first is true, that'd be great for being able to hide a mic for interviews/ghost voice recording (recording other people without them knowing, later getting permission to use the audio). The second is simply just because I might want to use it on Skype without having to lug around a giant 8 or 16 channel mixer XD

[RoganSarine]

I think I'm confused exactly what your splicing. Would the cable still terminate to XLR? Would it split? I'm not entirely sure what you mean when you say "splicing a connector." As long as my key conditions are met, I don't exactly think I need to know how it works (until I see it). So, as I say, I just need a way for the cable to (preferably) still terminate to XLR (so it can hook up to my mixer) and be able to be converted to a 3.5mm cable (if possible) to hook into a Sony M10.

My current understanding with how your describing it is you're altering the wiring in the cable, so it requires a less of a power draw to the capsule.

Setting aside the fact that could be illegal or get you sued, the size of the capsule mount does not change regardless of its termination so I don't see how it would help in that case.

It would be all used with permission, so it wouldn't be illegal. I understand the laws behind what I want to do, and I know it's an obscure request. To think of what I'm trying to do, think of it this way...

Currently, to draw 12V/24V phantom power to power the X-X in a mobile setting, I need to use a Zoom H4N recorder. This thing is bulky and huge, due to the extremely large XLR connectors. If I can somehow draw a less voltage through the plug-in power a 3.5mm mic slot supplies, I can use my Sony M10... which is a lot less bulky which can easily be flush against a body (or better yet... sit in a back pocket).

[RoganSarine]

Funny aside... It took Giant Squid an entire week to reply
To my email. His microphones ALL require his $150 battery box, otherwise he says the voltage wont be correct and you'd fry a microphone... Talk about efficiency.

I could buy shure/sennheiser for cheaper

[RoganSarine]

Sounds like it makes sense to me. How much extra would it cost for 1 X-X to be convertible like that?

And why would I need a Y cable for an X-X? (Are you just duplicating the mono signal into L-R channels for a miniplug configuration?). More a curiousity, I trust you. Now I'm interested in cost + cables I'd need to run.

[RoganSarine]

Alright, ill email you in about 3-4 hours

Yeah, it'll only ever record 1 voice, so ill only ever need mono (which will subsequently be cheaper).

But, i know 4 out of the 5 mics I ordered will be normal.