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Gear / Technical Help => Microphones & Setup => Topic started by: moricle on June 05, 2015, 05:59:32 PM
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EDIT: I'm looking to upgrade my recording setup soon. I currently run a cheap mic through my Tascam US-125 interface and record through my laptop on audacity.
I am getting a Tascam US-1200 and want to get new mics and record in stereo. Any suggestions between $200-300? I've been considering Rode M5s So I am looking at a pair of Avantone CK-1s now. I'm looking at a pair of CA-11 or CA-14s now after more feedback. Any input about mics/setup is awesome!!
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Everyone here is probably tired of hearing me say it by now...
Line Audio CM3. Click the Team Line Audio link in my signature. A pair will run you about $275 with shipping from NoHypeAudio at current exchange rate (assuming you're in the US).
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I would check the Yard Sale on this board. You can likely find a used set of mint AKG SE300B / CK91 cards or Berliner CM33 cards for that price. You will make great recordings with either set of mics.
You might also look into a used pair of Audio-Technica AT4021's or AT4041's.
I would personally steer clear of that Tascam interface. You can find better options out there. There is a Tascam DR-2D in the Yard Sale now for $110, and it is in mint condition. Pair that with a used Edirol UA5, Denecke PS-2, or a Naiant pre-amp and you're set.
Other options include the Tascam DR100 MKII, which has built in XLR inputs or the Tascam DR-70D.
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I would jump up to $400 and get a used pair of ADK TLs...
Terry
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Everyone here is probably tired of hearing me say it by now...
Line Audio CM3. Click the Team Line Audio link in my signature. A pair will run you about $275 with shipping from NoHypeAudio at current exchange rate (assuming you're in the US).
You keep on saying it because it's the truth.
There was a Tascam Dr60 in the YS for $150. The seller might come off that price if it's still there. The laptop/interface route is a pain. Don't do that. The 60d has fallen out of favor because of the 70d, but the 60d is still a good recorder and can be had inexpensively.
The 60d has two xlr inputs with phantom power. You can run the CM3s with it without buying a preamp or anything extra. The 60d also has a 1/8 stereo input allowing you to grab a board feed for 4 channels. You'd want an external 5v cell phone battery pack to run it because it will run for hours on end like that. Your laptop will run out of battery about 45 minutes to an hour or so I expect. 60d is a more convenient option for you and affordable.
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I would check the Yard Sale on this board. You can likely find a used set of mint AKG SE300B / CK91 cards or Berliner CM33 cards for that price. You will make great recordings with either set of mics.
You might also look into a used pair of Audio-Technica AT4021's or AT4041's.
I would personally steer clear of that Tascam interface. You can find better options out there. There is a Tascam DR-2D in the Yard Sale now for $110, and it is in mint condition. Pair that with a used Edirol UA5, Denecke PS-2, or a Naiant pre-amp and you're set.
Other options include the Tascam DR100 MKII, which has built in XLR inputs or the Tascam DR-70D.
Awesome!! Looking into Avantone CK-1s now also. Thanks for the suggestions. Now I need to figure out preamps..
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Awesome man, I see you picked up the Tascam DR-2D from the Yard Sale! Nice grab, that is a fantastic little recorder; you will be super happy with it.
You can usually find some pretty good deals on used pre-amps in the Yard Sale at good prices. You may wish to post a new "ISO" (In Search Of) thread in the Yard Sale. If you can find a Naiant Littlebox, that would marry perfectly with that DR-2D deck. Some other pre-amps in that price range are the Denecke PS-2, Edirol UA5, (as previously mentioned), and possibly an Apogee Mini-Me and a Shure FP24.
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Congratulations...as I'm getting old and gray...we need more young tapers...
Get out your wallet...cause it aint cheap...but I think you have some locals that will help an let you borrow some extra equipment ;)
With the Tascam DR2d you have a all in one with the internals...not a bad way to start and to get used to operating the unit...
With Battery Powered Microphones you could plug them directly into the DR2d...They include Nakamichi - Tascam/Teac - Altec Primo Clones. I would consider the Sennheiser K3-ME40 too (I think that this combo is very under rated by TS).
Next up are the 9v electret microphones such as the Audio Technica U853, the Church Audio CA11-CA14 - at the least they should be ran with a Battery Box - Better yet a Church Audio Preamp - Sound Pro's has one also not sure of model numbers
If you want to go with the Avantone CK1 - ADK TLs - AKG SE300B / CK91 - Audio-Technica AT4021's or AT4041's - Line Audio CM3 (all great choices which works with your Tascam US-125 since this supplies Phantom Power) but with the DR2d you would have to add a Preamp with Phantom Power....many different options there...the ones chinariderstl mentions and many others. These also require a battery power source (not cheap either).
Also remember to budget for Mic Stands, Cables, microphone mounts-stereo Bar.
Congrats...It's a blast sharing the music
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Naiant tiny box was mentioned as possible preamp. While these are undeniably great kit (I own three of them), they are customized preamps and typically tailored to support certain microphones. So if you pursue one, make sure that it is compatible with your Mics.
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Welcome to the game, have fun!!
I run a dr2d as well, and use a Naiant tinybox. For mics I have the Busman bsc1 set for open taping which provides great flexibility for different situations, and church audio CA14 cardioids and omnis for when stealthily. It is a nice combo of options gives me the ability to pull a decent recording with relatively low cost gear.
The dr2d is a fun little recorder and will get you used to recording 2 or 4 channels, either 2 sets of mics or one set of mics and a soundboard feed.
For the price of an offer like Chris Church is offering on two sets of mics and a preamp, you would be totally set to jump in and get good recordings for a couple of hundred dollars, and step up to larger open mics later?
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....Chris Church is offering on two sets of mics and a preamp, you would be totally set to jump in and get good recordings for a couple of hundred dollars, and step up to larger open mics later?
Here is a link to the sale
http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=173300.0
I guarantee that you will spend 2 or 3 times as much to get a sound that is NOTICEABLY better (not just hear differences) than that Church package coupled with a DR2d
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Wow, that does look like an amazing deal! Is the CA-9200 the preamp I should go with? And what's the differences in a pair of CA-11 cards over CA-14 cards? Thanks for everyone's help so far! And thanks for the link ;)
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The 9200 is almost as large as the DR2d...easier to handle use...the UGLY is tiny...
Differences as far as the Microphones - Size mostly...CA11 are larger and have removable caps (omni and card) CA14 have a windscreen permanently attached if I recall correctly there for you buy a complete microphone for Omni and Card versions...and CA14's are a bit smaller...you will find members that prefer one over the other...Both sound amazing for the price.
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With a windscreen the CA-11s might be larger but without one they are smaller than the CA-14 with it's attached screen.
See the following post for a size comparison: http://taperssection.com/index.php?topic=172503.msg2135860#msg2135860
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If you bought my old 2d from waltmon, it is super clean. CA deal is very popular here and would work with 2d.
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So I have a better idea of what I want to get/do now, thanks to all the help I've received :) I definitely want that Tascam DR-2D and will sign-up for that awesome Church's Audio deal.
My next set of questions is what kind of mic bar and stand do I need? What are suggestions for these CA-11/14s? (still can't decide which I should choose, leaning toward 14s) What about mic stand/bar suggestions for pencil condenser mics such as the Avantone CK-1s?
Also, would the Avantone CK-1s work with the Tascam DR-2D/CA-9200 preamp setup? I'm still unsure how to check this kind of information for myself.
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Welcome to the game, have fun!!
I run a dr2d as well, and use a Naiant tinybox. For mics I have the Busman bsc1 set for open taping which provides great flexibility for different situations, and church audio CA14 cardioids and omnis for when stealthily. It is a nice combo of options gives me the ability to pull a decent recording with relatively low cost gear.
The dr2d is a fun little recorder and will get you used to recording 2 or 4 channels, either 2 sets of mics or one set of mics and a soundboard feed.
For the price of an offer like Chris Church is offering on two sets of mics and a preamp, you would be totally set to jump in and get good recordings for a couple of hundred dollars, and step up to larger open mics later?
Can you go in more detail on how I would record in stereo with two mics (say the CA-14 cards) AND the stereo soundboard feed at the same time, using the Tascam DR-2D?
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Welcome to the game, have fun!!
I run a dr2d as well, and use a Naiant tinybox. For mics I have the Busman bsc1 set for open taping which provides great flexibility for different situations, and church audio CA14 cardioids and omnis for when stealthily. It is a nice combo of options gives me the ability to pull a decent recording with relatively low cost gear.
The dr2d is a fun little recorder and will get you used to recording 2 or 4 channels, either 2 sets of mics or one set of mics and a soundboard feed.
For the price of an offer like Chris Church is offering on two sets of mics and a preamp, you would be totally set to jump in and get good recordings for a couple of hundred dollars, and step up to larger open mics later?
Can you go in more detail on how I would record in stereo with two mics (say the CA-14 cards) AND the stereo soundboard feed at the same time, using the Tascam DR-2D?
Have done that many times, including for four bands yesterday! You would feed a soundboard signal to the LINE IN on the dr2d, and the CA14s would use the mics in. They are both 3.5mm miniplug inputs. You would need some sort of cable from the SBD that terminates know a miniplug. I use a dual RCA cable with a bunch of different adapters to allow for any SBD output (XLR, 1/4 inch, or even the RCAs), and then feed the link in. The Case would plug into the preamp and then feed the mics in via a short 3.5mm patch cable.
The dr2d has various modes, and you can set it to record both line in and mic in, so you're left with a wav file from each source.
I mix the sources on the computer using audacity where you can flavour the matrix to your liking with different amounts of each source.
There are all sorts of helpful setup tips in the dr2d threads on here. Feel free to ask anything else or PM if you wish.
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What about mic stand/bar suggestions for pencil condenser mics such as the Avantone CK-1s?
Also, would the Avantone CK-1s work with the Tascam DR-2D/CA-9200 preamp setup? I'm still unsure how to check this kind of information for myself.
If you buy the CK-1's retail, from B&H, it looks like they each ship with a shockmount.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/867157-REG/Avantone_Pro_CK1_CK_1_Small_Capsule_FET_Pencil.html
If not, there are tons of shockmounts out there. You just need to find a pair that fit the CK1's. You'll have to determine the circumference of the microphone itself, usually in mm's, then grab a pair of shocks that fit. Here are a few, to give you an idea of what's out there.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68624-REG/Shure_A55M_A55M_Isolation_and_Swivel.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/867204-REG/Avantone_Pro_SSM_SSM_Professional_Shockmount.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/73119-REG/Sennheiser_MZS6_MZS6_Microphone_Shock_Mount.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821272-REG/Audix_SMT_19_SMT_19_Shockmount_for_the.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298919-REG/WindTech_SP_20_SP_20_Microhone_Shockmount.html
The CK1's, the AKG SE300B/CK91's, the Busman BSC1's et al, all require 48V phantom power. That is where a pre-amp comes into play. So you would need an external pre-amp, with XLR inputs (to provide phantom power), and then either RCA out or 3.5mm (1/8") stereo mini out to input into the Tascam DR-2D. If you pre-amp has RCA out, you would just grab a cable to convert RCA to 1/8" stereo mini. Some pre-amps even have XLR outs. You would then need a cable to convert the XLR's to an 1/8" mini jack. I've never done that before, so I can't really speak to that. Ted Gakidis (tgakidis) is a regular in the community and makes quality cables. If you need cables, I'd suggest contacting him.
To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, check out the pictres of the MixPre-D.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/764543-REG/Sound_Devices_MIXPRE_D_MixPre_D_Compact_Field_Mixer.html
It has XLR inputs, and then can output via 1/8" stereo. Of course, that is a pricey amp. :) But that should help illustrate the point.
Regarding a stereo bar, Robb (darktrain) makes Delrin stereo bars from time to time. I've purchased a couple Delrin stereo bars from the guys at Vark Audio. They are super helpful and make top-notch stuff.
https://id33157.securedata.net/varkaudio.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=7_43&products_id=85
A final thing to note, if you go with the Avantone CK1's, you may look into have them upgraded by Chris Johnson at Busman Audio. His mods should bring those mics up to par with the BSC1's.
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What about mic stand/bar suggestions for pencil condenser mics such as the Avantone CK-1s?
Also, would the Avantone CK-1s work with the Tascam DR-2D/CA-9200 preamp setup? I'm still unsure how to check this kind of information for myself.
If you buy the CK-1's retail, from B&H, it looks like they each ship with a shockmount.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/867157-REG/Avantone_Pro_CK1_CK_1_Small_Capsule_FET_Pencil.html
If not, there are tons of shockmounts out there. You just need to find a pair that fit the CK1's. You'll have to determine the circumference of the microphone itself, usually in mm's, then grab a pair of shocks that fit. Here are a few, to give you an idea of what's out there.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/68624-REG/Shure_A55M_A55M_Isolation_and_Swivel.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/867204-REG/Avantone_Pro_SSM_SSM_Professional_Shockmount.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/73119-REG/Sennheiser_MZS6_MZS6_Microphone_Shock_Mount.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/821272-REG/Audix_SMT_19_SMT_19_Shockmount_for_the.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298919-REG/WindTech_SP_20_SP_20_Microhone_Shockmount.html
The CK1's, the AKG SE300B/CK91's, the Busman BSC1's et al, all require 48V phantom power. That is where a pre-amp comes into play. So you would need an external pre-amp, with XLR inputs (to provide phantom power), and then either RCA out or 3.5mm (1/8") stereo mini out to input into the Tascam DR-2D. If you pre-amp has RCA out, you would just grab a cable to convert RCA to 1/8" stereo mini. Some pre-amps even have XLR outs. You would then need a cable to convert the XLR's to an 1/8" mini jack. I've never done that before, so I can't really speak to that. Ted Gakidis (tgakidis) is a regular in the community and makes quality cables. If you need cables, I'd suggest contacting him.
To give you an idea of what I'm talking about, check out the pictres of the MixPre-D.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/764543-REG/Sound_Devices_MIXPRE_D_MixPre_D_Compact_Field_Mixer.html
It has XLR inputs, and then can output via 1/8" stereo. Of course, that is a pricey amp. :) But that should help illustrate the point.
Regarding a stereo bar, Robb (darktrain) makes Delrin stereo bars from time to time. I've purchased a couple Delrin stereo bars from the guys at Vark Audio. They are super helpful and make top-notch stuff.
https://id33157.securedata.net/varkaudio.com/merchantmanager/product_info.php?cPath=7_43&products_id=85
A final thing to note, if you go with the Avantone CK1's, you may look into have them upgraded by Chris Johnson at Busman Audio. His mods should bring those mics up to par with the BSC1's.
This information is very helpful!! I'm most likely getting the CA-14s because that deal is too good. I actually just acquired a new pair of Rode M5s from some friends and will be using those this weekend. Those will need a shock mount or mic bar. I'll be able to measure them tomorrow!
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The Rode MT5 mics need phantom power. That's 24 or 48 volts. You'll need to have a power supply for them.
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If you are set on the Rode's and have not bought the DR2d...you may want to go with another recorder...pick up a Tascam DR60 for $60-75 more than the DR2d....that model has phantom power and a mini stereo input for the soundboard input to matrix...
This is my DR2d outfitted with a Aerco MP2...this setup is battery powered and runs my Phantom power mics...
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e348/EL_Deano/Aerco-Tascam_zpsndh6hwru.jpg)
fyi...I have over $500 invested just in the Aerco...but it pulls gold with my Gefell's...
https://archive.org/download/ep2015-05-16.Pisgah_Gefell/ep20150516_PisgahBrewery_03.mp3
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If you are set on the Rode's and have not bought the DR2d...you may want to go with another recorder...pick up a Tascam DR60 for $60-75 more than the DR2d....that model has phantom power and a mini stereo input for the soundboard input to matrix...
This is my DR2d outfitted with a Aerco MP2...this setup is battery powered and runs my Phantom power mics...
(http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e348/EL_Deano/Aerco-Tascam_zpsndh6hwru.jpg)
fyi...I have over $500 invested just in the Aerco...but it pulls gold with my Gefell's...
https://archive.org/download/ep2015-05-16.Pisgah_Gefell/ep20150516_PisgahBrewery_03.mp3
Cool, the Tascam DR60 has phantom power and runs on 4 AA batteries? What's the amount of recording time with the DR60? And is this compatible with the CA-14s? I still haven't figured out how to confirm compatibility haha. I assume if the batteries supply phantom power, a preamp is not necessary.
I have access to the Rodes this weekend and wanted to give them a try while I have the opportunity. I'll be using the Tascam US-1200 with my computer setup this weekend; just until I purchase/receive a recorder ;)
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...the Tascam DR60 has phantom power and runs on 4 AA batteries?
Yes it has phantom Power...It also has AA's but consider these only for backup you will want to pick up a rechargeable USB battery to power it with...Check the DR60 page on TS for recommendations.
What's the amount of recording time with the DR60?
Depends on the size of your SD card for stereo 1gig = almost 1hr at 24bit 48khz...double size or half of the time if running 4 channels.
And is this compatible with the CA-14s?
It has a mini stereo input that the CA's will run on...14's may need 9v or more power than the Plug In Power (PIP) provided...ask Mr. Church when you order he would know
I assume if the batteries supply phantom power, a preamp is not necessary
The DR60 has a preamp that supplies Phantom power on the XLR inputs....batteries just power the DR60
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Thanks so much!! Very helpful!
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Cool, the Tascam DR60 has phantom power and runs on 4 AA batteries? What's the amount of recording time with the DR60?
I run the DR-60D with a USB battery (12,000 mah). I got 15 hours running phantom power (2 channels)on the first test and shut it down with power left to spare.
I never tested running AAs. The CA-14s might be fine on Plug In Power, but in many cases they will not be. I've done a few amplified shows running on PIP from Sony D50 or Tascam DR-07, but the shows were not very loud. I don't think the PIP voltage for the DR-60D is published by Tascam. The DR-60D built-in pres sound great IMO and would definitely be a good option if when you decide on P48 phantom powered mics later.
It took me almost six years to move on from Church-Audio gear as my primary rig. That gear is still the best bang for the buck around. I'll likely always have my CA-14 omnis and CA-9200.
I've picked up AKG SE300Bs (w/CK91 cardioid caps) and Berliner CM-33s in the Yard Sale for $300 or under.
The Avantone CK-1s sound really nice for the price as well and gives you a few capsule options.
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Cool, the Tascam DR60 has phantom power and runs on 4 AA batteries? What's the amount of recording time with the DR60?
I run the DR-60D with a USB battery (12,000 mah). I got 15 hours running phantom power (2 channels)on the first test and shut it down with power left to spare.
I never tested running AAs. The CA-14s might be fine on Plug In Power, but in many cases they will not be. I've done a few amplified shows running on PIP from Sony D50 or Tascam DR-07, but the shows were not very loud. I don't think the PIP voltage for the DR-60D is published by Tascam. The DR-60D built-in pres sound great IMO and would definitely be a good option if when you decide on P48 phantom powered mics later.
It took me almost six years to move on from Church-Audio gear as my primary rig. That gear is still the best bang for the buck around. I'll likely always have my CA-14 omnis and CA-9200.
I've picked up AKG SE300Bs (w/CK91 cardioid caps) and Berliner CM-33s in the Yard Sale for $300 or under.
The Avantone CK-1s sound really nice for the price as well and gives you a few capsule options.
Very nice! So most P48 mics work with the Dr60 and a USB battery?
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Very nice! So most P48 mics work with the Dr60 and a USB battery?
All P48 microphones work with the DR60...
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Very nice! So most P48 mics work with the Dr60 and a USB battery?
All P48 microphones work with the DR60...
Thanks, sorry for my ignorance on the subject. I really appreciate all the help!