Topic: soundboard recordings

[porphyry]

how do people get soundboard recordings from 'big' bands, ie. the ones that play big venues and don't have a relaxed atmosphere about taping like small bands do? do the sound engineers secretly make copies of the recordings and give them to their friends? can i just walk up to them and ask to patch in? are they partial to bribes? whats the deal??

[nic]

in the case of Lou (Keller Williams sound guy), he puts a jar on the sbd that says: "nug for a plug"

[Scuba Jeremy]

Stealth patch. This concept has always intrigued me. I have to wonder how something like that happens.

Is it some kind of double team effort? Like some guy distract the board op for a minute or two while guy number two discretely plugs in? Every board is different, how can you be sure you have the right out?

Just seems crazy, I probably would never attempt it, but I'd love to watch one in action.

[nic]

I would be very wary of stealth sbd patching...especially if you are the only or there are few tapers present.

also, remember that the sbd is mixed for that particular room, not for recording!

fyi, a few years ago after the band I work for stopped sbd patching, we noticed that the house sound guy had patched a deck from the sbd...ever since we purposefully turn down all sbd feeds in case someone else gets a stupid idea into their head of sneaking a sbd patch

[John Kelly]

I actually got a sbd recording of the Dave Matthews Cover Band because I was recording the opener (of course, I stopped the tape after a few songs because I didn't really want a copy of a freakin cover band).

[Tim]

not endorsing it but Moke has revealed some of the secrets.

[Swampy]

Another way is through Assisted Listening device... it was discused throughly in another thread. Maybe someone can find it...

[Tim]

I've done that twice... worked pretty well once and the second time I was almost tossed out on my ass!

[dmonterisi]

i personally would never do the ALD thing, that's some iffy karma coming your way for taking advantage of the ALD technology...

[zhianosatch]

And they can't sound as good as a cable...

[Tim]

i personally would never do the ALD thing, that's some iffy karma coming your way for taking advantage of the ALD technology...

the lawyer is giving karma speeches

[Tim]

I wouldn't do it again...

[Tim]

get in? any venue over a certain size has to have them.

I pulled off for Phish 7-10-00 Moby Dick show and nearly got booted from WSP 7-14-02

it just doesn't feel right

[porphyry]

excuse my ignorance... could someone please tell me what an Assisted Listening Device is??    what's all this talk about karma and morality?

[zhianosatch]

 what's all this talk about karma and morality?

exactly

[dmonterisi]

An Assisted Listening Device is a receiver that picks up a broadcast of the soundboard feed at a show.  It is meant for those who are hearing impaired.

all i was saying is that i don't really feel right about taking advantage of technology that is implemented so that people with a hearing disability can enjoy the show.  i also would not buy diabled seating tickets to get into a sold out show.

[jpschust]

i think you've hit it on the head.  

[porphyry]

thanks, i was getting really curious cos it seemed like such a taboo.

how does it work?

[jpschust]

basically there are a narrow band of fq's on which its broadcast, just scan the fq's till you find the right one on which its broadcast.  

[porphyry]

so can you just plug the thing into your DAT or MD recorder, press record and 'bob's your uncle?!' or is it more complicated than that? does the machine have to be really close to the soundboard?

does it affect the quality of the recording?

[jpschust]

the quality is notoriously bad, virtually no low end, and as longas you are in the theatre it shouldnt matter

[jpschust]

let me add to my explenation that i consider those who use these for taping purposes to pretty much be morally bakrupt.

[porphyry]

thanks for all the info.  

i don't quite get the morally bankrupt argument tho. these things are sold privately to anyone who wants one, not just someone with a prescription, right? if you're not actually disadvantaging a hearing impaired person in any way (and i don't see how it could possibly disadvantage a hearing impaired person) then whats the problem? what is so wrong with people using technology that was developed to meet one need, for another (obviously far less important!) need?

[jpschust]

yes they are sold to anyone, but you are taking something that isn't meant to record with. to me, personally, this is the same thing as a millionare taking social securty.  Did they pay in?  yes.  was it meant for their situation?  obviously not.

[dmonterisi]

props to Alex Herd for his highjacking of the thread!

c'mon moke, thread hijacking is a team effort!

[jpschust]

fyi- check your riders with the venue... a lot of times venues have rights to record off their board for bands that play in their venue.  it's really common.  

[porphyry]

to me, personally, this is the same thing as a millionare taking social securty

maybe, i dunno... whereas the millionaire has no use for social security, someone with perfect hearing using one of the Assisted Listening Devices would actually be using the device... this is not to say that they need it, but they are not taking something that is not intended for them AND that is of no use to them...

it seems that this technology has potential uses other than aiding the hearing impaired. if some company took the same technology, altered it slightly and used it in a product designed, produced and marketed with the express purpose of tuning into certain audio information being broadcast by machines such as soundboards, then would it be morally wrong to use the product?

anyway this is starting to sound like a philosophy message board.

how do i solve the problem of being fed up with recording gigs with microphones because of all the hassle involved - i want soundboard recordings.

take a specific example - when i go to see queens of the stone age in melbourne in january, i want a soundboard recording. how will i get it? should i try to just patch in off the board when no-one's looking then hide my gear and pray no-one notices it? should i ask one of the engineers nicely? should i offer him a small bribe? should i somehow magically find out who the engineers are before the show and become their best friend?

does anyone have a solution that works?

[Brian Skalinder]

how do i solve the problem of being fed up with recording gigs with microphones because of all the hassle involved

That's easy:  stop taping.

[porphyry]

That's easy:  stop taping.

thats very helpful.

doesn't actually answer the whole question, tho...

[zhianosatch]

Porphyry, I'm disappointed. Skalinder and Moke are right.

[nickgregory]

I have heard they can locate an ALD receiver anywhere in the house in use.  Dont know about most, but I would not want to draw any more attention to myself if I am taping a show I should not be...

[VA_TAPER]

I have heard they can locate an ALD receiver anywhere in the house in use.  Dont know about most, but I would not want to draw any more attention to myself if I am taping a show I should not be...

This is complete BS, while technically correct, any radio reciever gives off frequencies that can be detected (i.e. how police can dectect if you are using a radar dectector), there is no way a venue or for that matter touring staff would purchase triangulation recievers to pinpoint anyones location; and along with that, since ALDs use a freq very close to FM anyone with an FM radio (walkman, etc.) would set it off.  And on top of this I doubt that the miniscule signal would penetrate all the broadband hash in a venue now, cell phone harmonics alone would probably swamp the type of signal a reciever emits.  

Not slamming you at all Nick, I'm sure you didn't make this up, I just hate bum scoop getting passed so often.  The same is true for IEM.  Not that I am encouraging or discouraging the use of either device.  My personal thoughts are: if the band has an open taping policy except for recievers JUST DON'T DO IT (don't screw up a good thing), if they don't allow taping, fuck it, do it if you want to 'casue you shouldn't be taping anyway, and third if they have no rules against recievers, tread lightly.

peace, chris  

[busknuckle]

That's easy:  stop taping.

thats very helpful.

doesn't actually answer the whole question, tho...

you can waste your money and hope that the ALD mix is decent...or you can buy good tix for the show AND buy good mics. soundboard shows ain't the best...no matter what you might think. many times...the mix sucks. Spend you money on mics (cardioid pattern) and get positioned well. that will yield much better results in the long run.

[porphyry]

once again my thread has been hijacked...  

oh well i give up. if you're just gonna try and talk me out of it rather than actually answering the original question then there's no point.

[nickgregory]

This is complete BS, while technically correct, any radio reciever gives off frequencies that can be detected (i.e. how police can dectect if you are using a radar dectector), there is no way a venue or for that matter touring staff would purchase triangulation recievers to pinpoint anyones location; and along with that, since ALDs use a freq very close to FM anyone with an FM radio (walkman, etc.) would set it off.  And on top of this I doubt that the miniscule signal would penetrate all the broadband hash in a venue now, cell phone harmonics alone would probably swamp the type of signal a reciever emits.  

Not slamming you at all Nick, I'm sure you didn't make this up, I just hate bum scoop getting passed so often.  The same is true for IEM.  Not that I am encouraging or discouraging the use of either device.  My personal thoughts are: if the band has an open taping policy except for recievers JUST DON'T DO IT (don't screw up a good thing), if they don't allow taping, fuck it, do it if you want to 'casue you shouldn't be taping anyway, and third if they have no rules against recievers, tread lightly.

peace, chris  

No offense taken Chris...however, with IEMs I do belive that there is a way for them to determine if one is in use.  Specifically on the DMB tour in .02, the bands staff had some sort of device that showed one in use in a certain area, and Scott Brown had them go through his bag during the show, knocking his pre levels off, because they thought he had the receiver.  

Regardless, I agree with you....I am amazed at how much people are willing to fuck over a good taping policy with shit tapes from ALDs and IEM receivers....

[Brian Skalinder]

oh well i give up. if you're just gonna try and talk me out of it rather than actually answering the original question then there's no point.

I could've sworn I already posted this reply.  Hmmmmm.  Anyway, here we go...

What questions have we not addressed, Porphyry?  Just because we provide answers you do not like, or answers different from those you wanted to hear or were expecting, doesn't mean your issues have not been addressed.  Perhaps a thread summary is in order:

[1] How do I get SBD recordings for BIG bands?

You answered this yourself with the specific questions you asked, and Moke confirmed with "all of the above", suggested stealth patching as an option, and I'll add a third possibility (though I know you won't like it):  just try to trade for leaked soundboards after the fact.

[2] What are ALDs and how do they work?

Answered.

[3] How to solve the problem of being fed up with recording gigs with mics because of all the hassle involved?

Answered.

What are we missing here that we have not addressed, Porphyry?  It seems as though you're looking for a magic pill that will allow you to record effortlessly and, well, there isn't one.  Making quality recordings requires effort, even sacrifices (like not dancing your buns off if you're wearing stealth mics).  Either one is willing to put forth the effort and make sacrifices in return for the rewards taping offers, or not.  Taping should be fun.  If it wasn't, we wouldn't do it.  If it isn't, one shouldn't do it.

Maybe we should address [3] from a different angle, as you didn't like the answers provided already:

What exactly are the hassles to which you refer that prevent you from wanting to record with mics?  We'll try to help you remove or minimize them, but there will still be effort and, yes, even sacrifices involved.

[John R]

ALD - Although you're not stealing the signal from someone who could really use it(everyone in the venue could use one, it's a radio afterall)the sonic quality is nothing you want to listen to later on.

SBD - Thinking you can be inconspicuos(sp) enough to walk up to the soundboard and just jack into the right output(that may or may not be hot, pre or post) is ridiculous.  you might be in an awkward position when it comes time for a tape flip, hovering around the back of the desk.  and if i caught on to the fact that you had jacked into my desk without asking, as any engineer would, you and you gear would be forcibly removed and you gear would probably get 'damaged' in the process.  just ask for a patch.  the worse they can say is no, right?  who knows, the're may be a patch bay and ac offered.  do you not like audience taping?  is a potentially shitty sbd feed what you really want.  you do realise that solo/group levels will be all over the place, including on your tape, no?

if it's all too much of a hassle, you could always buy a copy from chuck loe, who we've been blasting all weekend over at ebay.  seroiusly, if it's too much of a hassle, why do you want/continue to tape.  just get on the net and find the show after the fact.  as brian said, it's a lot of work having fun(paraphrased, sorry brian)

good luck

jr

[gewwang]

ALD - Although you're not stealing the signal from someone who could really use it(everyone in the venue could use one, it's a radio afterall)the sonic quality is nothing you want to listen to later on.

SBD - Thinking you can be inconspicuos(sp) enough to walk up to the soundboard and just jack into the right output(that may or may not be hot, pre or post) is ridiculous.  you might be in an awkward position when it comes time for a tape flip, hovering around the back of the desk.  and if i caught on to the fact that you had jacked into my desk without asking, as any engineer would, you and you gear would be forcibly removed and you gear would probably get 'damaged' in the process.  just ask for a patch.  the worse they can say is no, right?  who knows, the're may be a patch bay and ac offered.  do you not like audience taping?  is a potentially shitty sbd feed what you really want.  you do realise that solo/group levels will be all over the place, including on your tape, no?

I've heard though never got confirmation, that back in 98 or so, Bruce Hornsby stopped giving board feeds because someone plugged in without asking and pulled the wrong plug. Since that incident, they don't give them out anymore except for some solo shows.

[John R]

ALD - Although you're not stealing the signal from someone who could really use it(everyone in the venue could use one, it's a radio afterall)the sonic quality is nothing you want to listen to later on.

SBD - Thinking you can be inconspicuos(sp) enough to walk up to the soundboard and just jack into the right output(that may or may not be hot, pre or post) is ridiculous.  you might be in an awkward position when it comes time for a tape flip, hovering around the back of the desk.  and if i caught on to the fact that you had jacked into my desk without asking, as any engineer would, you and you gear would be forcibly removed and you gear would probably get 'damaged' in the process.  just ask for a patch.  the worse they can say is no, right?  who knows, the're may be a patch bay and ac offered.  do you not like audience taping?  is a potentially shitty sbd feed what you really want.  you do realise that solo/group levels will be all over the place, including on your tape, no?

I've heard though never got confirmation, that back in 98 or so, Bruce Hornsby stopped giving board feeds because someone plugged in without asking and pulled the wrong plug. Since that incident, they don't give them out anymore except for some solo shows.

go figure.

jr

[John R]

since I brought up the stealth sbd patch, let me clarify;

Forget about doing this in big stadium venues, aint gonna happen.
Ask for a patch, or break out mics, or stealth it.

I had a few clubs that I frequented as often as the employees. I had patched, and actually mixed out of the boards that I stealthed from numerous times, SO I KNEW THOSE BOARDS. The locations of the smaller club boards generally left the rear of the console exposed, so access was fairly simple. I would even go so far as to weave my stealth mics into the cables of the rear of some of the sbds. So I would get the sbd, and ambient recording both, "from the console"

This isn't a game for the first time into a club, or for someone to try jamming connectors into the rear of a console without knowing how it was setup.

This is a game of calculated high risk if you do it in a stealth circumstance!!
Be prepared to leave some gear behind....... cables, connectors, etc. Be prepared to run like the wind at a seconds notice!!

If in doubt, DON'T DO IT!!

naughty boy

jr

[porphyry]

If in doubt, DON'T DO IT!!

yeah, stealth sbd patches sound particularly dodgy. i don't think i'd ever try that, mostly because the sound techinicians aren't idiots and are probably gonna notice if you've got a whole bunch of shit plugged into the back of their boards!

anyway i appreciate all the lively and informative discussion on this thread. it seems that some people are a bit annoyed, possibly even offended, that someone could suggest that stealthing is too much of a hassle.

i never said that stealthing is the worse thing in the world and i'd never do it again as long as i shall live. i've just had some pretty lousy experiences and a pretty poor success rate, which seems, to me at least, to be due to factors completely out of my control. it is complete chance, for example, whether or not you get stuck next to people who insist on talking through the music. and there are only so much places you can stand when stealthing.

i've always been intrigued by soundboard recordings because all the ones i've heard have been great and they seem like the holy grail of tapers because they give good quality and allow you to have fun without worrying about recording. yes, i'm sure that not all sbd mixes are fantastic, but if that's whats going out over the PA then how is recording it from microphones any better?

i suppose what i was hoping for was people saying either "no the sound engineers for the big bands almost never let you patch in" or "yeah there's a good chance they'll let you patch in if you ask them nicely". cos i'm just curious as to how people actually get sbd recordings of the big bands.

[nickgregory]

i suppose what i was hoping for was people saying either "no the sound engineers for the big bands almost never let you patch in" or "yeah there's a good chance they'll let you patch in if you ask them nicely". cos i'm just curious as to how people actually get sbd recordings of the big bands.

To this question, I would be less suprised if I woke up tomorrow with my head stapled to the carpet (national lampoons christmas reference   ) than I would if a band that does not have a taping policy, that is touring relatively big arenas would give a patch.  In fact, it seems to me that there would also be a likelihood that your deck would be confiscated.  Remember that most bands that dont have a taping policy either (1) dont want one cause they sound like shit live, (2) dont want one cause they dont want the hassle - asking for a SBD patch wont help here, or (3) their recording company is against it...

[nickgregory]

" cos i'm just curious as to how people actually get sbd recordings of the big bands.

also, the SBD tapes that are out there are leaks from the bands themselves, venue sound engineers or people who are VERY close to the band...not some random guy asking for a patch..

[porphyry]

definition of BIG bands:

basically just the big mainstream bands, who tour internationally, play to really big venues (in the thousands), charge more than £15 for a ticket (don't ask me what that is in $US), their shows are usually sold out, they might be on MTV every now and then, or quite regularly, they get articles in big mainstream magazines (NME or Q in the UK, i don't know what the big magazines are in the US), have a fairly professional official website, have probably released live albums and/or live videos/DVDs, they play at the big festivals like Glastonbury in the UK or the Big Day Out in Australia or... i don't know what in the US... you get the idea?

[greenone]

yes, i'm sure that not all sbd mixes are fantastic, but if that's whats going out over the PA then how is recording it from microphones any better?

Because depending on the acoustics of the venue, you may have to crank certain instruments in the mix to get them to sound right to your ears. So while the levels may be way out of whack on the board, they'll sound much better traveling through air, bouncing off walls, seats, people, the stage, etc., and then recorded by your mics. For example, oftentimes the vox and bass will be relatively low in the mix through the board while the guitar is off the scale...but once everything's run through the PA, the balance is more pleasing.

[Brian Skalinder]

it seems that some people are a bit annoyed, possibly even offended, that someone could suggest that stealthing is too much of a hassle.

I won't speak for others, but yeah - I'm kinda annoyed, porphyry.  We've answered all your questions, some multiple times, and you've accused us several times of not answering/addressing your questions:

does anyone have a solution that works?

doesn't actually answer the whole question, tho...

oh well i give up. if you're just gonna try and talk me out of it rather than actually answering the original question then there's no point.

The answers are there.  Now, it's up to you to decide what to do.

i've just had some pretty lousy experiences and a pretty poor success rate, which seems, to me at least, to be due to factors completely out of my control. it is complete chance, for example, whether or not you get stuck next to people who insist on talking through the music. and there are only so much places you can stand when stealthing.

Yes, there are factors outside of your control while stealthing.  For loud people, you can ask them to be quiet.  You can offer them a copy of the show in return for their being quiet.  You can leave 'em alone and accept that's the way some people are at shows.  It's up to you.

Continuing on with my question that you've sorta answered partially above:

What exactly are the hassles to which you refer that prevent you from wanting to record with mics?

[John R]

i love this thread.  it's getting as much traffic closed as it was open.

jr

[zhianosatch]

cos i'm just curious as to how people actually get sbd recordings of the big bands.

Um... they don't!
European radio stations, yeah, they "get SBDs" and then broadcast them. Have you actually seen anyone with a SBD of a real band that was not ganked from FM or pre-FM?

[Tim]

I have heard they can locate an ALD receiver anywhere in the house in use.  Dont know about most, but I would not want to draw any more attention to myself if I am taping a show I should not be...

that's how I was got in toruble... they walked right up to me

[zhianosatch]

definition of BIG bands:

basically just the big mainstream bands, who tour internationally, play to really big venues (in the thousands), charge more than £15 for a ticket (don't ask me what that is in $US), their shows are usually sold out, they might be on MTV every now and then, or quite regularly, they get articles in big mainstream magazines (NME or Q in the UK, i don't know what the big magazines are in the US), have a fairly professional official website, have probably released live albums and/or live videos/DVDs, they play at the big festivals like Glastonbury in the UK or the Big Day Out in Australia or... i don't know what in the US... you get the idea?

I wonder where you get the idea that soundboard recordings of those bands are out there, except from radio broadcasts or perhaps some jackass in the station leaking them.
This does not happen often AT ALL in the U.S. The only real band I can think of at the moment that had any American shows broadcasted recently is Metallica in 1999-2000, and there were only a handful, and it was a big deal.
But... it happens regularly in Europe. Summer festival soundboard mixes get broadcasted like the dickens, sometimes with asshole DJ interruptions, sometimes incomplete, most of the time, pretty rockin' (and that's partly because European audience tapes suck ass ).
Not sure about Australia.
Armen

[John R]

porphry, have you seen boards of canada?  do they tour?  any shows floating around?

jr

[porphyry]

different culture i suppose. i'm australian but living in the UK at the moment. soundboard tapes abound here. also the crowd are arseholes; well, there's always a minority who ruin it.

my main objections to stealthing are:

1) frequently ruined by people talking or bumping me (it happens A SHITLOAD!)

2) the whole routine of elaborately placed microphones and getting the right 'spot' (and don't call me lazy cos i spent ages making special adjustments to my favourite jacket so that i'd have a place to attach my mics. i even learnt to sew.)

3) not being able to move and have more fun. sorry but this is important to me.

i just thought sbd might be a valid alternative. i thank you all for answering my questions.  

oh, and with regards to:

We've answered all your questions, some multiple times

my original question (remember, being about 'big' bands) wasn't actually answered until Armen wrote

This does not happen often AT ALL in the U.S.... But... it happens regularly in Europe.

cultural differences, you see.  

[nickgregory]

cultural differences....no....laxer copyright laws...yes

[porphyry]

don't ask me about boards of canada, they freak me out.

anyway i'm going away for a few days so i won't be able to defend meself no more.

[John R]

don't ask me about boards of canada, they freak me out.

anyway i'm going away for a few days so i won't be able to defend meself no more.

i'll take that as a no

jr

[Brian Skalinder]

anyway i'm going away for a few days so i won't be able to defend meself no more.

I'm sorry to hear you feel you were defending yourself, that you feel attacked.  I can tell you it was not my - and I suspect no one else's - intention.  Just trying to provide some clarity around the issues at hand and offer assistance.  

[porphyry]

I'm sorry to hear... that you feel attacked

no not at all. tongue in cheek. i was joking.

typing is really bad for communicating subtlties of meaning...!  

[Lee]

especially cross-cuturally... +T man

[Swampy]

props to Alex Herd for his highjacking of the thread!

*evil laugh voice on*
Muhahahahahh
*evil laugh voice off*

[chuckcage]

I can totally understand the idea of being "lazy" about a show...  You know, just wanting to show up, have a good experience, and leave.  That's the main reason I haven't bought gear for stealthing.  I'm just way too lazy -- in that way.  I don't mind hauling in gear, stand, etc., but I don't want to spend the whole evening wondering whether I'll get booted or not.

On the other hand, I love reading about everyone's experiences here, and to each his own.  Sometimes I get the bug to try stealthing, but then it passes.

Chuck

[Scuba Jeremy]

I have heard they can locate an ALD receiver anywhere in the house in use.  Dont know about most, but I would not want to draw any more attention to myself if I am taping a show I should not be...

that's how I was got in toruble... they walked right up to me

Out of curiosity, did you have to give your seat location when you got the box? Or did you bring your own? Taping allowed at all? I would imagine you were careful when you were stealthing with the ALD, but if you check your levels and just one security guy is watching, that'll ruin your night.

I still doubt that venue security has the ability to triangulate your position through all the other RF noise in the middle of a rock concert, especially in the cellular age.

[jpschust]

Jeremy,

I dont know that id discount the ability to figure out the position- the ald's run on a very narrow range of fq's seperate from that of cell phones and whatnot

[Scuba Jeremy]

Right, and about 700Mhz apart, but you would have to be sniffing for the actual frequency of interference given off by the device itself, which could only be picked up from -maybe- five feet away. It's not transmitting anything, it's only radiating. Still seems like something they wouldn't be so concerned about to the point that they'd invest several hundred dollars into a frequency sniffer. Venue side, anyway. Who knows what kind of gear the bands might be packing, depending on how big a "problem" wireless tapes are to that band.

[chuckcage]

This reminds me of "back in the day" when they first started scrambling analog cable (before the digital encryption days).  You could go down and buy an old box at the flea market, crack it open, and adjust the little pots to get the signal.  It was a PITA 'cause you had to do it just about every time you used it, but lots of people did it.

This was, say, circa 1990.  I was in Orlando at the time, and I remember the cable company put together a couple of vans with equipment to detect the receivers in operation (like was said eariler -- same principle as detecting radar detectors).  They'd drive around and bust people pretty effectively.

I guess the trick was that even though they only busted a few people, it had a chilling effect.

Chuck

[Scuba Jeremy]

Were they detecting the box, or the big black cable running into the foundation of your home?

[chuckcage]

Were they detecting the box, or the big black cable running into the foundation of your home?

It was about the scrambling, not the physical connection.  For example, you might have had a basic cable subscription so HBO came in scrambled.  The box unscrambled it for you.

They weren't detecting the existance of the box, either, but rather the fact that its tuner was operating on a partcular frequency.  They'd then compare that to your subscription records.

Chuck

[Tim]

I have heard they can locate an ALD receiver anywhere in the house in use.  Dont know about most, but I would not want to draw any more attention to myself if I am taping a show I should not be...

that's how I was got in toruble... they walked right up to me

Out of curiosity, did you have to give your seat location when you got the box? Or did you bring your own? Taping allowed at all? I would imagine you were careful when you were stealthing with the ALD, but if you check your levels and just one security guy is watching, that'll ruin your night.

I still doubt that venue security has the ability to triangulate your position through all the other RF noise in the middle of a rock concert, especially in the cellular age.

It was a widespread panic show, for some reason we had it in the taperssection (dumb!) and down in a bag with a d8, zipped up and everything. They literally walked right up to me and asked for it. So it was open taping and they didn'y know where I was sitting yet they walked right up to me... sounds like they knew where it was.

[Tim]

oh and I should add that I turned the ald on and started recording but the feed was shutoff a few minutes into set I and I was escorted backstage at setbreak.

Still don't think they know where they are?

[Tim]

Here's why Phish doesn't allow SBD's anymore and why you shouldn't be fucking around behind a SBD if you don't know what you're doing....

http://www.phish.net/faq/highquality.html#sbds

"Soundboards began to be disallowed in the summer of 1990, after some careless/greedy taper unplugged crucial equipment (most of the PA) during "Horn" at 6/16/90 Townsend. More problems came in Spring 1991, as the number and frequency of requests to patch in had very much expanded, and the size of venues and crowds also picked up, as did the amount of equipment. There have been selective (and sometimes inadvertent) release of soundboards since, as well as excellent audience tapes. The last official release was 5/7/94 Bomb Factory (though that was sbd>cas>dat, not direct digital. BTW, the first digital soundboard tape was 4/22/90; others are sbd>cass>dat.) Some disreputable tapers managed to Patch into Paul's DAT when he wasn't looking (e.g. 11-13-94 II, 12/8/94),"