Topic: soundboard recordings

[nickgregory]

I have heard they can locate an ALD receiver anywhere in the house in use.  Dont know about most, but I would not want to draw any more attention to myself if I am taping a show I should not be...

[VA_TAPER]

I have heard they can locate an ALD receiver anywhere in the house in use.  Dont know about most, but I would not want to draw any more attention to myself if I am taping a show I should not be...

This is complete BS, while technically correct, any radio reciever gives off frequencies that can be detected (i.e. how police can dectect if you are using a radar dectector), there is no way a venue or for that matter touring staff would purchase triangulation recievers to pinpoint anyones location; and along with that, since ALDs use a freq very close to FM anyone with an FM radio (walkman, etc.) would set it off.  And on top of this I doubt that the miniscule signal would penetrate all the broadband hash in a venue now, cell phone harmonics alone would probably swamp the type of signal a reciever emits.  

Not slamming you at all Nick, I'm sure you didn't make this up, I just hate bum scoop getting passed so often.  The same is true for IEM.  Not that I am encouraging or discouraging the use of either device.  My personal thoughts are: if the band has an open taping policy except for recievers JUST DON'T DO IT (don't screw up a good thing), if they don't allow taping, fuck it, do it if you want to 'casue you shouldn't be taping anyway, and third if they have no rules against recievers, tread lightly.

peace, chris  

[busknuckle]

That's easy:  stop taping.

thats very helpful.

doesn't actually answer the whole question, tho...

you can waste your money and hope that the ALD mix is decent...or you can buy good tix for the show AND buy good mics. soundboard shows ain't the best...no matter what you might think. many times...the mix sucks. Spend you money on mics (cardioid pattern) and get positioned well. that will yield much better results in the long run.

[porphyry]

once again my thread has been hijacked...  

oh well i give up. if you're just gonna try and talk me out of it rather than actually answering the original question then there's no point.

[nickgregory]

This is complete BS, while technically correct, any radio reciever gives off frequencies that can be detected (i.e. how police can dectect if you are using a radar dectector), there is no way a venue or for that matter touring staff would purchase triangulation recievers to pinpoint anyones location; and along with that, since ALDs use a freq very close to FM anyone with an FM radio (walkman, etc.) would set it off.  And on top of this I doubt that the miniscule signal would penetrate all the broadband hash in a venue now, cell phone harmonics alone would probably swamp the type of signal a reciever emits.  

Not slamming you at all Nick, I'm sure you didn't make this up, I just hate bum scoop getting passed so often.  The same is true for IEM.  Not that I am encouraging or discouraging the use of either device.  My personal thoughts are: if the band has an open taping policy except for recievers JUST DON'T DO IT (don't screw up a good thing), if they don't allow taping, fuck it, do it if you want to 'casue you shouldn't be taping anyway, and third if they have no rules against recievers, tread lightly.

peace, chris  

No offense taken Chris...however, with IEMs I do belive that there is a way for them to determine if one is in use.  Specifically on the DMB tour in .02, the bands staff had some sort of device that showed one in use in a certain area, and Scott Brown had them go through his bag during the show, knocking his pre levels off, because they thought he had the receiver.  

Regardless, I agree with you....I am amazed at how much people are willing to fuck over a good taping policy with shit tapes from ALDs and IEM receivers....

[Brian Skalinder]

oh well i give up. if you're just gonna try and talk me out of it rather than actually answering the original question then there's no point.

I could've sworn I already posted this reply.  Hmmmmm.  Anyway, here we go...

What questions have we not addressed, Porphyry?  Just because we provide answers you do not like, or answers different from those you wanted to hear or were expecting, doesn't mean your issues have not been addressed.  Perhaps a thread summary is in order:

[1] How do I get SBD recordings for BIG bands?

You answered this yourself with the specific questions you asked, and Moke confirmed with "all of the above", suggested stealth patching as an option, and I'll add a third possibility (though I know you won't like it):  just try to trade for leaked soundboards after the fact.

[2] What are ALDs and how do they work?

Answered.

[3] How to solve the problem of being fed up with recording gigs with mics because of all the hassle involved?

Answered.

What are we missing here that we have not addressed, Porphyry?  It seems as though you're looking for a magic pill that will allow you to record effortlessly and, well, there isn't one.  Making quality recordings requires effort, even sacrifices (like not dancing your buns off if you're wearing stealth mics).  Either one is willing to put forth the effort and make sacrifices in return for the rewards taping offers, or not.  Taping should be fun.  If it wasn't, we wouldn't do it.  If it isn't, one shouldn't do it.

Maybe we should address [3] from a different angle, as you didn't like the answers provided already:

What exactly are the hassles to which you refer that prevent you from wanting to record with mics?  We'll try to help you remove or minimize them, but there will still be effort and, yes, even sacrifices involved.

[John R]

ALD - Although you're not stealing the signal from someone who could really use it(everyone in the venue could use one, it's a radio afterall)the sonic quality is nothing you want to listen to later on.

SBD - Thinking you can be inconspicuos(sp) enough to walk up to the soundboard and just jack into the right output(that may or may not be hot, pre or post) is ridiculous.  you might be in an awkward position when it comes time for a tape flip, hovering around the back of the desk.  and if i caught on to the fact that you had jacked into my desk without asking, as any engineer would, you and you gear would be forcibly removed and you gear would probably get 'damaged' in the process.  just ask for a patch.  the worse they can say is no, right?  who knows, the're may be a patch bay and ac offered.  do you not like audience taping?  is a potentially shitty sbd feed what you really want.  you do realise that solo/group levels will be all over the place, including on your tape, no?

if it's all too much of a hassle, you could always buy a copy from chuck loe, who we've been blasting all weekend over at ebay.  seroiusly, if it's too much of a hassle, why do you want/continue to tape.  just get on the net and find the show after the fact.  as brian said, it's a lot of work having fun(paraphrased, sorry brian)

good luck

jr

[gewwang]

ALD - Although you're not stealing the signal from someone who could really use it(everyone in the venue could use one, it's a radio afterall)the sonic quality is nothing you want to listen to later on.

SBD - Thinking you can be inconspicuos(sp) enough to walk up to the soundboard and just jack into the right output(that may or may not be hot, pre or post) is ridiculous.  you might be in an awkward position when it comes time for a tape flip, hovering around the back of the desk.  and if i caught on to the fact that you had jacked into my desk without asking, as any engineer would, you and you gear would be forcibly removed and you gear would probably get 'damaged' in the process.  just ask for a patch.  the worse they can say is no, right?  who knows, the're may be a patch bay and ac offered.  do you not like audience taping?  is a potentially shitty sbd feed what you really want.  you do realise that solo/group levels will be all over the place, including on your tape, no?

I've heard though never got confirmation, that back in 98 or so, Bruce Hornsby stopped giving board feeds because someone plugged in without asking and pulled the wrong plug. Since that incident, they don't give them out anymore except for some solo shows.

[John R]

ALD - Although you're not stealing the signal from someone who could really use it(everyone in the venue could use one, it's a radio afterall)the sonic quality is nothing you want to listen to later on.

SBD - Thinking you can be inconspicuos(sp) enough to walk up to the soundboard and just jack into the right output(that may or may not be hot, pre or post) is ridiculous.  you might be in an awkward position when it comes time for a tape flip, hovering around the back of the desk.  and if i caught on to the fact that you had jacked into my desk without asking, as any engineer would, you and you gear would be forcibly removed and you gear would probably get 'damaged' in the process.  just ask for a patch.  the worse they can say is no, right?  who knows, the're may be a patch bay and ac offered.  do you not like audience taping?  is a potentially shitty sbd feed what you really want.  you do realise that solo/group levels will be all over the place, including on your tape, no?

I've heard though never got confirmation, that back in 98 or so, Bruce Hornsby stopped giving board feeds because someone plugged in without asking and pulled the wrong plug. Since that incident, they don't give them out anymore except for some solo shows.

go figure.

jr

[John R]

since I brought up the stealth sbd patch, let me clarify;

Forget about doing this in big stadium venues, aint gonna happen.
Ask for a patch, or break out mics, or stealth it.

I had a few clubs that I frequented as often as the employees. I had patched, and actually mixed out of the boards that I stealthed from numerous times, SO I KNEW THOSE BOARDS. The locations of the smaller club boards generally left the rear of the console exposed, so access was fairly simple. I would even go so far as to weave my stealth mics into the cables of the rear of some of the sbds. So I would get the sbd, and ambient recording both, "from the console"

This isn't a game for the first time into a club, or for someone to try jamming connectors into the rear of a console without knowing how it was setup.

This is a game of calculated high risk if you do it in a stealth circumstance!!
Be prepared to leave some gear behind....... cables, connectors, etc. Be prepared to run like the wind at a seconds notice!!

If in doubt, DON'T DO IT!!

naughty boy

jr

[porphyry]

If in doubt, DON'T DO IT!!

yeah, stealth sbd patches sound particularly dodgy. i don't think i'd ever try that, mostly because the sound techinicians aren't idiots and are probably gonna notice if you've got a whole bunch of shit plugged into the back of their boards!

anyway i appreciate all the lively and informative discussion on this thread. it seems that some people are a bit annoyed, possibly even offended, that someone could suggest that stealthing is too much of a hassle.

i never said that stealthing is the worse thing in the world and i'd never do it again as long as i shall live. i've just had some pretty lousy experiences and a pretty poor success rate, which seems, to me at least, to be due to factors completely out of my control. it is complete chance, for example, whether or not you get stuck next to people who insist on talking through the music. and there are only so much places you can stand when stealthing.

i've always been intrigued by soundboard recordings because all the ones i've heard have been great and they seem like the holy grail of tapers because they give good quality and allow you to have fun without worrying about recording. yes, i'm sure that not all sbd mixes are fantastic, but if that's whats going out over the PA then how is recording it from microphones any better?

i suppose what i was hoping for was people saying either "no the sound engineers for the big bands almost never let you patch in" or "yeah there's a good chance they'll let you patch in if you ask them nicely". cos i'm just curious as to how people actually get sbd recordings of the big bands.

[nickgregory]

i suppose what i was hoping for was people saying either "no the sound engineers for the big bands almost never let you patch in" or "yeah there's a good chance they'll let you patch in if you ask them nicely". cos i'm just curious as to how people actually get sbd recordings of the big bands.

To this question, I would be less suprised if I woke up tomorrow with my head stapled to the carpet (national lampoons christmas reference   ) than I would if a band that does not have a taping policy, that is touring relatively big arenas would give a patch.  In fact, it seems to me that there would also be a likelihood that your deck would be confiscated.  Remember that most bands that dont have a taping policy either (1) dont want one cause they sound like shit live, (2) dont want one cause they dont want the hassle - asking for a SBD patch wont help here, or (3) their recording company is against it...

[nickgregory]

" cos i'm just curious as to how people actually get sbd recordings of the big bands.

also, the SBD tapes that are out there are leaks from the bands themselves, venue sound engineers or people who are VERY close to the band...not some random guy asking for a patch..

[porphyry]

definition of BIG bands:

basically just the big mainstream bands, who tour internationally, play to really big venues (in the thousands), charge more than £15 for a ticket (don't ask me what that is in $US), their shows are usually sold out, they might be on MTV every now and then, or quite regularly, they get articles in big mainstream magazines (NME or Q in the UK, i don't know what the big magazines are in the US), have a fairly professional official website, have probably released live albums and/or live videos/DVDs, they play at the big festivals like Glastonbury in the UK or the Big Day Out in Australia or... i don't know what in the US... you get the idea?

[greenone]

yes, i'm sure that not all sbd mixes are fantastic, but if that's whats going out over the PA then how is recording it from microphones any better?

Because depending on the acoustics of the venue, you may have to crank certain instruments in the mix to get them to sound right to your ears. So while the levels may be way out of whack on the board, they'll sound much better traveling through air, bouncing off walls, seats, people, the stage, etc., and then recorded by your mics. For example, oftentimes the vox and bass will be relatively low in the mix through the board while the guitar is off the scale...but once everything's run through the PA, the balance is more pleasing.