Topic: New guy with a few questions about putting together a rig

[teajay]

Hey all, first off I'd like to say this looks like a nice place with some helpful people. Hopefully I'll spend a bit of time around here.

I'm looking at starting a rig for taping a variety of kinds of music in different venues. So far I've come up with some products and am looking for some feedback.

I was very convinced that laptop recording was the way to go, but after I read about this JB3 I'm stumped. Is the JB3 a 24-bit device, I'd like to be as prepared for new technology as possible, so 24-bit is preffered.

Recorder: Laptop with external dedicated drive for taping. I was thinking about something near 1ghz with 256 RAM, and connecting through USB.
(but what about the jb3, which i cuold connect to my existing desktop after?)

Microphones: Rode NT-5. Around the same price as the AKG c1000's, maybe a little more expensive. The reason I'm interested in these mics though is the fact that for the price, they have the full 20hz-20khz range. The NT-4 looked like a decent mic at first until I realized the capsules couldn't be arranged so you were stuck with one config. ugh! If these mics are garbage, then throw in some suggestions

Now for where I really need help - Preamp: I see lots of posts regarding the UA-5, but I was thinking of giong for the m-audio duo. I like some of it's features like clip LED's, 20db pad. But I haven't been able to find anyone who uses one, which leads me to wonder if it's a decent machine or not. According to core-sounds review of UA-5, it is *not* bit for bit accurate, but how much of a difference will this make? Also, I understand the DUO has no digital inputs, is this a big issue?
The one reason I really like the idea of the DUO though is that it can work standalone, so you don't need the usb to power it, should I ever need to record to a DAT machine, etc..

Cables: No clue, any suggestions?!

Of course with all this I'd need a vert bar and some shockmounts, etc... but there doesn't seem to be as many confusing options in that dept.

Thanks for any help,
Cheers,
Travis

[bhadella]

The UA-5 is bit accurate for analog to digital conversion.  It isn't able to take in digital signal and convert it to another sample rate in the digital realm and still be bit accurate.  

The UA-5 can easily be ran stand-alone.  It doesn't require powering from a USB to run....In fact, I just put together a 9.6 line to use a RC battery to power it in the field.

You can very easily run the UA-5 to a DAT after mod-ing it.....
http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=14;action=display;threadid=5209

B

[yemncsu]

The JB3 is very unreliable at 24bit.  It doesn't really claim to support it.  If your looking at doing 24bit the LT is the way to go.  I have some C1000s and am pretty happy with them.  Listen to some tapes with similar products that you interested in and let your ears decide.  As for the ua5, I own one as well.  If you are just using it for recording(as opposed to playback) the bit accuracy doesn't matter because the ua5 will be the first D/A conversion.  It is a little confusing.  Your ears are the best tool for choosing mics.  A price range will also help in recommendations. Hope this helps.
Josh

[drumminj]

The JB3 isn't just unreliable at 24-bit, it doesn't support it.  It just truncates the last 8bits, AFAIK, and records a 16-bit audio stream. I have fed it a 24/96 source before, and not had any problems.

I have a friend with a Duo, and I run a UA-5.  I believe the Duo will only accept AC, so making a battery pack for it is more involved.  I know that Core-Sound sells a battery pack for it, and my friend has it. I've never actually checked it out, though.  Powering a UA-5 in the field is simple, and can easily be done by yourself.

Curretly Oade is having a special on the digi-mod UA-5.  Of course, you could always do that modification yourself, but you may find that you want one of Oade's other mods - Warm or Presence.  That's one thing that's not available on the Duo.

J

[Brian Skalinder]

The JB3 is very unreliable at 24bit.  It doesn't really claim to support it.

Just to clarify:

The JB3 can't be "unreliable" at 24-bit because it does not support 24-bit.  It is strictly a 16-bit device.

[yemncsu]

Sorry for the confusion.  I thought I read somewhere that it was tried and worked, but only for a few minutes before locking up.  Maybe I was dreaming?
Josh

[BC]

The UA-5 is bit accurate for analog to digital conversion.  It isn't able to take in digital signal and convert it to another sample rate in the digital realm and still be bit accurate.  


B

This does not make sense, analog>digital cannot be bit accurate. Bit accurate means the digital dignal you record is exactly (bit-for-bit) the same as your digital source. If you are taking an analog source there is nothing to compare to.

In the same vein, if your box is doing resampling, there is no way the digital signal can be bit accurate to the source since you are changing the data.


Take care,
Ben

[BC]

I was very convinced that laptop recording was the way to go, but after I read about this JB3 I'm stumped. Is the JB3 a 24-bit device, I'd like to be as prepared for new technology as possible, so 24-bit is preffered.

Recorder: Laptop with external dedicated drive for taping. I was thinking about something near 1ghz with 256 RAM, and connecting through USB.
(but what about the jb3, which i cuold connect to my existing desktop after?)

Microphones: Rode NT-5. Around the same price as the AKG c1000's, maybe a little more expensive. The reason I'm interested in these mics though is the fact that for the price, they have the full 20hz-20khz range. The NT-4 looked like a decent mic at first until I realized the capsules couldn't be arranged so you were stuck with one config. ugh! If these mics are garbage, then throw in some suggestions

Now for where I really need help - Preamp: I see lots of posts regarding the UA-5, but I was thinking of giong for the m-audio duo. I like some of it's features like clip LED's, 20db pad. But I haven't been able to find anyone who uses one, which leads me to wonder if it's a decent machine or not. According to core-sounds review of UA-5, it is *not* bit for bit accurate, but how much of a difference will this make? Also, I understand the DUO has no digital inputs, is this a big issue?
The one reason I really like the idea of the DUO though is that it can work standalone, so you don't need the usb to power it, should I ever need to record to a DAT machine, etc..

As was posted before the JB3 is just a 16 bit device. You can feed it 24 bits and get something that sounds like it is ok, but like drumminj said, it is simply truncating the last 8 bits and only recording a true 16 bit signal.

Right now for practical 24 bit field recording the best option seems to be a laptop, or a PDAudio (palm-based recording device) using Linux. I am not sure if they have the windows version debugged fully yet.

As far as a preamp/input box, I can say that it is nice to have the option of taking a digi input, this allows you to do DAT transfers to your computer and take patches in the field if for some reason you are not running mics. UA5 seems to be throughly field tested so it looks nice for that reason. If you do go the laptop route, the Sound devices USBPre is a nice box also.

Now, for intro mics, I would recommend small diaphraghm condensers from Audio Technica and Shure, just to name a couple. I am sure there are a ton of options out there. Some fun sources for scoping out mics are www.sonicsense.com, Masterpiece audio, B&H photo and video, and Full Compass.

Happy shopping!
Ben

[bush]

I ran the nt-5's and the duo as my first rig. I would not suggest this to any one else.

The nt-5's are really loose in the lows and harsh on the high end, I really didnt like them at all, they also seem to loose a lot of detail and the previously mentioned sonic problems got worse the further from sound source I got.  I found unless I was 15 ft from the sound source, they were horrible

the duo is not really suited for field use...the ac power problem.
dc-ac power invertors, or all the ones I tried introduced lots of noise.
and I had to carry a coupla car batteries all the time.

If you want my opinion...go jb3 and do some patching and listening before you pick out some mics and a pre/ad.

if you want my opinion on mics>per/ad...pick up some oktava mc-012
with card and hyper caps, and a digimod ua-5...you can have all the fun you need and maks some pretty damn good tapes for the $$

bush

[drumminj]

Now, for intro mics, I would recommend small diaphraghm condensers from Audio Technica and Shure, just to name a couple. I am sure there are a ton of options out there. Some fun sources for scoping out mics are www.sonicsense.com, Masterpiece audio, B&H photo and video, and Full Compass.

And I just happen to have a pair of at853Rx mics for sale  If interested, PM me.  Of course, if you're not stealthing, or don't need small mics, you may want to look at the Oktavas or AKG 391's or somesuch.

J

EDIT: Really, I can spell. Honest.

[Chapper]

I'm not sure that an external drive with the laptop would be a good idea.   I'd stick with the internal drive, then transfer it to the external (or whatever you want to tranfer it to) at home.  It's going to draw more juice off your battery and I'd guess that the transfer rate is better on the internal drive.   Plus it's another piece of gear to lug around.  

[teajay]

First off, thanks for all the feedback. It's much appreciated.

Here's what I'm leaning towards now that I've got some more info. I've decided to start off that I will not go laptop.

For recording: 20gb or 40gb JB3
Preamp: UA-5 (digimod), should i ever go laptop, i can continue using this machine
Mics: Pair of Oktava MC-012's with card and hyper caps

Now, I need to know what kind of bar and shock mounts I can use on these mics?

Also, a recommendation of some windscreens and alternate power supplies, siince by the time I actually purchase this gear it will be very close to Bonnaroo, and what better time to test it all out?



Feel free to toss ideas and suggestions around.
Cheers,
Travis

[InfiniteOhms]

Power Supply: I'd get a 3000 MAH NI-MH battey pack (they are made for airsoft guns / RC cars) and just make a connecter cable for it, search the forums for "DIY battery" and you should find plenty of info. It will run a ua-5 for about 6 hrs and you can allways get a few more batteries and use the same cable if you need more time. You  may want to get the extra battery for the JB3, you get ~3 hrs per battery in the JB3.

[Chanher]

I as well am just about to get some oktava mc012's.  I would highly recommend picking them up from www.sound-room.com , many oktava tapers can vouch for that place. the mics definitely cost more, but the mics are tested and matched to assure you get a quality product (there are some quality control issues with oktava mics). I happened to get the guitar center ones, which are notorius for quality issues, but todd is modding them. however, it will take some time and I think I will still have to buy some matched caps.

I also recommend getting your digimod UA-5 from www.oade.com for $295, that way you can send it back and have Doug perform a warm modification or a presence modification, either one noticeably improving sound.  many tapers will vouch for this method as well.

[mirth]

As an alternative for low priced starter mics that at least one board member here has used, check out the Superlux line of mics.... Alex "Swampy" Herd has some tapes up at the Archive done with those.