Topic: Useless comparison? 722 & Edirol R09he & Sony PCM-M10

[gmm6797]

OK, just because I can... I did the following:

Schoeps Mk4 > nBox+ > SD 722 > R09hr & M10 (by tape out)
  R09hr run at 20 (unity)
  M10 run so it was peaking around -12db, per suggestion in Sony manual

I know the R09 file is low...
All files are unedited 24/96 files

Not a perfect comparison, not a perfect technical test, the cables from the 722 out were tossed together at the last minute

But, give it a download and a listen if you are interested
http://tikcuf.com/downloads/guster-711-r09hr-m10_comparison.zip (223mb)

Please comment and vote, good, bad, ugly, just be honest.

[digifish_music]

OK, just because I can... I did the following:

Schoeps Mk4 > nBox+ > SD 722 > R09hr & M10 (by tape out)
  R09hr run at 20 (unity)
  M10 run so it was peaking around -12db, per suggestion in Sony manual

I know the R09 file is low...
All files are unedited 24/96 files

Not a perfect comparison, not a perfect technical test, the cables from the 722 out were tossed together at the last minute

But, give it a download and a listen if you are interested
http://tikcuf.com/downloads/guster-711-r09hr-m10_comparison.zip (223mb)

Please comment and vote, good, bad, ugly, just be honest.

Care to make a 30 second sample from each and put that in a file 223 Mb is a big download on a whim

digifish

[printguy]

OK, just because I can... I did the following:

Schoeps Mk4 > nBox+ > SD 722 > R09hr & M10 (by tape out)
  R09hr run at 20 (unity)
  M10 run so it was peaking around -12db, per suggestion in Sony manual

I know the R09 file is low...
All files are unedited 24/96 files

Not a perfect comparison, not a perfect technical test, the cables from the 722 out were tossed together at the last minute

But, give it a download and a listen if you are interested
http://tikcuf.com/downloads/guster-711-r09hr-m10_comparison.zip (223mb)

Please comment and vote, good, bad, ugly, just be honest.

Care to make a 30 second sample from each and put that in a file 223 Mb is a big download on a whim

digifish

I did just that so I could compare: http://thehundredthmeridian.com/stuff/Guster2009-11-07-All3.flac (8.13 Mb)

All normalized to 98%, 30 seconds of each in the order that Greg labeled them - Sound 1 is first, the 2, then 3.

[Nick's Picks]

interesting.
my thoughts.

#1 had more music going on during this clip, but it sounded nice and full w/good detail.

#2 all of a sudden sounds like an echo chamber.  the music is less (as played by the musicians), but there is this sense of space that seems false , sort of empty sounding.  Detail is good, and the percussion comes right through nice.

#3 sound more like #1.  Fuller, fatter sounding.

I think they are all good, but If I had to pic in order of preference from this little comp, I'd go 1-3-2. 
I would want to hear more to see if it was a change in the dynamics of the music that left the R09 sounding empty.
but...having not been there in person, maybe that sense of space and echo is the room and the other two decks just didn't resolve or interpret that information.  hard to say...

[tekdroid]

I'm going with (in order of preference):
sound 3
sound 1
sound 2
based on the short 8MB flac listen.

Sound 2 is definitely out of the running and sound 1 seems to have a bit too much harshness (sibilance) so sounds sub-par to me.

[bgalizio]

Level 20 on the R-09HR seems pretty low. I've never seen/heard it run that low, and am wondering if something is happening with that device to cause the "echo chamber" sound Nick described.

[Craig T]

20 is unity on the R09HR?  I'm not saying you're wrong, just wondering where you got that info?  I always thought it was higher (>30) for some reason.

[Belexes]

Unity on the HR is something around 40 - 45.

[steve4134]

Can someone define unity for me ?

Steve

[Kyle]

Unity is the point at which the signal is neither amplified or attenuated.

[gmm6797]

Care to make a 30 second sample from each and put that in a file 223 Mb is a big download on a whim

Been slammed all day, I will see if I can do that for you tomorrow, sorry

Level 20 on the R-09HR seems pretty low. I've never seen/heard it run that low, and am wondering if something is happening with that device to cause the "echo chamber" sound Nick described.

Someplace on this board there was a thread about the unity on the R09hr, but 20 seemed to be the consensus... but I never saw an "official word" like there was for the R09 (which was 12).

My opinion is as follows:
722
M10
R09hr (but I am thinking its because I didnt normalize yet)

[ghellquist]

I hope you do know that the tape out on the 722 comes from the DA-converter! So the signal has first been AD converted and then DA converted inside the 722. This means that the comparison between the R09 and the M10 can easily be reapeated. It does not give a good comparison between the 722 and the other units though.

// Gunnar

[digifish_music]

I did just that so I could compare: http://thehundredthmeridian.com/stuff/Guster2009-11-07-All3.flac (8.13 Mb)

All normalized to 98%, 30 seconds of each in the order that Greg labeled them - Sound 1 is first, the 2, then 3.

Thanks for that.

BUT...assuming those samples are the same as the OP's...

This thread has me worried. The 2n'd track is clearly in mono and with odd phase, something is definitely wrong. Digital recorders just can't sound that much different.

That no-one has picked it up, explains to me why modding units is so common around here

digifish

[printguy]

I did just that so I could compare: http://thehundredthmeridian.com/stuff/Guster2009-11-07-All3.flac (8.13 Mb)

All normalized to 98%, 30 seconds of each in the order that Greg labeled them - Sound 1 is first, the 2, then 3.

Thanks for that.

BUT...assuming those samples are the same as the OP's...

This thread has me worried. The 2n'd track is clearly in mono and with odd phase, something is definitely wrong. Digital recorders just can't sound that much different.

That no-one has picked it up, explains to me why modding units is so common around here

digifish

They are the same but if you'd prefer to wait for Greg to do it I understand.

I created the little test file because I also taped this show, from the same location as Greg, and wanted to compare my two sources (Busman > Naiant > R-44 and Busmans > R-44) to his three sources, and to dgodwins recording (Beyerdynamic MC 930's -> Busman T-mod Edirol R4). Not scientific but fun for me.

To me it sounds like the R-09 is just missing the bass...

[digifish_music]

To me it sounds like the R-09 is just missing the bass...

Indeed, try it with headphones

I wasn't hassling you BTW, I was just checking that you used the exact same files as the OP. Thanks for putting it up.

As I noted, digital recorders just can't sound that different unless something is wrong.

digifish