Topic: Night 1 with the R-4 ***Edited- Now night 2***

[bhtoque]

I did Mofro last night with Nick's R-4 (again many thanks to Nick for the loan)

I ran 2 stereo tracks (Oktava cards on canare starquad and Oktava Hypers on AM Hyper-conductors) @ 24/48. I did not use any of the effects, but the eq and noise gate seems most useful to a taper. Both would help with wind noise and excess bass. Now if they could just build in auto crowd noise removal.  Overall I'm really impressed so far, even though my recordings were not great on this first run.

Here are a few comments.

1. Starts up quick (just over 20 sec) and remembers all settings.
2. Very easy to set up. There are buttons everywhere, but all are clearly labled and the screen provides a bit of prompting as to what button to push.
3. You can select what channels are sent to the outputs. This was great for me last night because I could monitor the sound of the cards or hypers at the push of a button. This would also allow for a matrix to the hdd, with just the sbd or mics fed to another deck
4. Unfortunately it affects all the outs (phones, line out analog and coax out) so if I had a patcher their tape would be unlistenable.
5. The gain knobs have a good feel to them and are well spaced.
6. The meters could be marked better. 48, 24, 12, 6 and clipping is not a very good range. There is a few seconds of sustain on the clip indicators, but they don't stay lit.
7. The mic pre's are very sensitive. Even with the gain all the way down, this show was too loud for the Oktava>R4 combo. Note that the show was no louder to my ears than the average show at this venue. The recording is full of clips and they are all very noticeably distorted. I was suprised because even a hard clip on the UA-5 does not sound this bad.

I guess tonight I'll run the Oktavas with the pads in, since I can't use my LSD2 right now. Hopefully I will have my new cable for it in time for Ratdog next week. Maybe I can borrow someone's mics to compare sensitivity.

The R4 seems like a great box at a great price, but if you have to run a pre in front of it, you may as well get the 722. Having 4 channels is nice, but 4 channels of clips is useless.

More later.........

JAson

[bluegrass_brad]

A noise gate wouldnt be that helpful for live recording.  A gate actually shuts off the signal when the db level reaches a certain setting (which is controlled by the user).  I use them often when I run FOH to cut bleed in drum mics and vocals.  In a nutshell, Let's say Im using a gate on a channel for the snare drum.  when the gate is "on" or closed than there is no signal passing, but when the drummer hits the snare drum it raises the db enough to "open" the gate and let that signal pass through, but as soon as that signal goes below the set db it closes again.  You can set how quickly or slowly you want the gate to open and close.  This can help tighten up drums as well as helping out with some phase issues and of course bleed from other things on stage (like amps, other drums, etc). Very useful tool, but not really for ambiant live recording. +T for the review of this thing though.  It looks very cool.

[bhtoque]

Ok, here's the lowdown for JMP tonight.

Always run gear through the ringer before you go to a show. I assumed that the R-4 had to be set to mic (not line) to use phantom. So tonight I set it to line and had no clipping issues.

Mad Dog was playing a keyboard w/o an amp on stage, so I just ran cards @ 24/96 instead of 4 channels.

Results were great. Some nice high resolution crowd noise, but not too bad.

I've decided that the backlight controls really need some work. Settings are 2, 5, 10 and 20 sec or always on. There's 9 button presses and a spin of the jog wheel needed to change the backlight. With all the buttons on this thing they really could have dedicated one to backlight on/off. Having the backlight come on automatically at a clip wouldn't hurt either.

There's a button to insert markers during playback or recording, but they don't change the file. If the R-4 can seamlessly start a new file automatically at 2 gigs, why can't it do it when I hit mark. Would make things so much easier. Patching the 2 gig splits back together once you track is no big deal, but it could be avoided that way.

Oh, and locking switches should be the standard on any device with phantom power.

It's already tracked and flacing as I type. Look for a 24/96 torrent shortly. I'll dither tomorrow .

JAson

[bhtoque]

Here's the 24/96 torrent

http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=13470

JAson

[Nick's Picks]

so you found that running the MIC in was too hot for concert taping?
huh.  I hadn't noticed (as I ran a 248 in front of it).  But that means that the preamp in it may not be the same as the UA5 apparently.

running line in is the same thing only with some sort of pad built in, just like all of the other line in options on other preamps.  Good to know.

Clipping should not be a problem at 24bit.  There is no need to run that hot, ever.  If you are riding at -6db and peaking over that, then you are in great shape. 

There is also a "lock" button on the top so you dont mess anything up.  I've never seen locking phantom switches on any of the other taping gear i've owned.  shit, that little switch is better than the ua5 button.

4 channels for most of us is pretty useless, imo.  It is fun to play with, but nothing we need.
Still, adding a preamp in front of this still keeps the cost of this sucker under $2k, assuming you can find a used V2 or SAX or Oade box under $700, which shouldnt be too hard.

If money were not object, then i too would want a 7xx.


the R4 is built STRICTLY with broadcast use in mind.  Its ment to record quiet events, interviews..etc.  Not jambands and 100+db of pressure in the air.  Its too bad that they didn't build it to be suitable for everything under the sun.
However, if running line in solves that problem, and the mic preamps are not too noisey, then what the hey.  This thing costs less than a new V3.  Let us not forget that.  $1,000 difference between this and anything else that comes close to it is *a big deal* to many.

Its too bad the Fostex FR2 doestn' have a hdd in there.  But you know, that too suffers from brickwall w/o the Oade "O mod".  Same boat.  So the R4 is just swinging for par here only better as it has large storage options and 24/96 reliability.  Not bad...and still for the same money as the FR2.  Having owned both...I'll keep the R4 stability over nicer levles and trim pots on the Fostex.
I can't compare it directly to any of the SD boxes as i've not seen one, let alone used one.

[1st set only]

jason how are you powering the R-4?

[wbrisette]

4 channels for most of us is pretty useless, imo.  It is fun to play with, but nothing we need.

Speak for yourself. I've been running 4 mics for about 3 years now and love it. Prior to the Deva IV, I ran everything into a 4 channel ENG mixer, then out to DAT, but now I just put things on their own channel.

For what we do a nice 3 and 4 mic mix can sound incredible, so I wouldn't call it useless. You do however, have to have the right combination of mics (cards & omni's) to really make use of a 3 or 4 mic setup though.

Wayne

[bhtoque]

4 channels for most of us is pretty useless, imo.  It is fun to play with, but nothing we need.

Speak for yourself. I've been running 4 mics for about 3 years now and love it. Prior to the Deva IV, I ran everything into a 4 channel ENG mixer, then out to DAT, but now I just put things on their own channel.

For what we do a nice 3 and 4 mic mix can sound incredible, so I wouldn't call it useless. You do however, have to have the right combination of mics (cards & omni's) to really make use of a 3 or 4 mic setup though.

Wayne

Wayne, how do you set things up? I've run 'outrigger omni' before, but it isn't always practical.

JAson

[bhtoque]

jason how are you powering the R-4?

3 9.6v 200mha rc car batts, or the wallmart dvd one. Have not done a full batt life test yet though.

JAson

[wbrisette]

Wayne, how do you set things up? I've run 'outrigger omni' before, but it isn't always practical.

I built a custom 1 metre bar out of hardwood. That connects to my stand via a C-clamp. The two omni mics go on the outside and a shure vertical bar has my two card mics in the center.

Wayne

[Nick's Picks]

4 channels for most of us is pretty useless, imo.  It is fun to play with, but nothing we need.

Speak for yourself. I've been running 4 mics for about 3 years now and love it. Prior to the Deva IV, I ran everything into a 4 channel ENG mixer, then out to DAT, but now I just put things on their own channel.

For what we do a nice 3 and 4 mic mix can sound incredible, so I wouldn't call it useless. You do however, have to have the right combination of mics (cards & omni's) to really make use of a 3 or 4 mic setup though.

Wayne

i stand by what i said.
just because 3 or 4 or us run multiple mic mixes does not make it a majority.
and i'm not dissing the practice.  im just saying that is mostly useless for the majority of us in here.  maybe im wrong and there are shitloads of tapers running 3 and 4 mic mixes. 

[hexyjones]

A lot of us have the oppourtunity to record both a board and aud feed these days - but the word clock issues force folks to use software hacks to make it work...this would make the SBD/AUD matrix much easier to do...

And with surround mixes becoming do-able...this device seems like a natural next step...

I just ordered 4 batteries so I can run all of my mics at once...

[hexyjones]

By mid week I will have two AD converters with BNC connections for clocks - one has "clock out" - So I'm thinking I can sync the second with the first - and run two JB3s (each on a different source)