Topic: Pre recommendations for Oktava MC012

[Simp-Dawg]

well folks,
assuming the m1 i purchased this week is in good working order, i am going to gracefully exit the 24-bit realm for a while and downgrade to DAT.  this will be my first true DAT experience also, aside from a couple runs with the D3 as a patcher before i discovered it's problems.

anyhoo,
i need to pick up a pre and maybe a/d to use.  my usbpre does not function standalone.  i do like the sound i'm getting from it but i honestly haven't tried anything else.
i've thought about the ua-5 but am a little put off by the build quality.
i liked some tapes i heard with the ad-20 with oktavas, and it's cheap, small, and built like a tank, plus has built in a/d.
what i want is a smallish box that i can run in a bag.  i'm sick of having my case all open and shit so my laptop doesn't overheat.  i'd like to have a small footprint but honestly anything is better than a 12"x20" case on the floor.
any ideas and comments are welcome.  i may end up changing mics eventually also but for now i'm keeping my oktavas, they're different and i've enjoyed the results i've gotten with them.


by the way i moved this outta the mic thread cuz it should be in here

[olyrc]

I've liked the results with my p-mod UA-5, although the w-mod might fill out the low end a little.

[thoman8r]

If you liked the usbpre then I think the MP-2 would be a good fit for you.  It's small and I'm very pleased with the results.  I think you'd find the sound more enjoyable going MP-2 > M1 using the M1's stock a/d as compared to ad/20 >  M1 as the pre in the MP-2 is MUCH better than in the ad-20.

Dave

[Brian Skalinder]

FWIW, I found the MC012 > MP-2 low end a bit bloated for my tastes.  To my ears, the MC012s are very loose in the low end as it is, and I feel the MP-2 just accentuates this characteristic.  'Course, those are just my ears...give it a whirl, you might like it!

[Simp-Dawg]

maybe a dmic-20 or (something)>adc-20 to brighten things up?  i do agree with the loose low end theory.

[THE NIZ BIAAAAACH!]

Right now there is a D-mic 20 on the oade board that has been up there for a while so you might be able to get him down on the price.  He wants 450 I think, that is a good price.  The unit has been moded so that you can run mid side and has better capacitors.  I really liked my d-mic back in the day, I used to run it with my schoeps while I was waiting on my apogee.  I think that a moded one would smoke.  As for the jumpers I never had a problem with brickwalling, they have a ton more head room then the lights indicate!

[chuckcage]

...i've thought about the ua-5 but am a little put off by the build quality....
i liked some tapes i heard with the ad-20 with oktavas, and it's cheap, small, and built like a tank, plus has built in a/d.
what i want is a smallish box that i can run in a bag.  i'm sick of having my case all open and shit...

After listening to that UA-5/V3 comparison, there's really no arguing that the UA-5 is a great piece of gear.  Like everyone said there, too, there's a great upgrade path.

However, I love my AD-20, and it certainly makes a really small, neat package.  I've been recording my own performances MK012 > PB224 > AD-20 > NJB3 and I'm happy with the sound.  

My pix are still up in the rig pix section showing just how small this can be.

Chuck

[wsp12]

Personally i think the UA5 is just as durable as anything else out there unless you have a tenedency to trash your gear you should be fine with one of those plus their about the same price well good luck Mike

[Simp-Dawg]

bump...any other ideas?

[plucks]

Josh-
Try to find a used V2.  It may help with the loose low end that the Oktava's commonly have and the AD converter in the M1 will work great!  There are quite a few floating around!

Otherwise the Sound Devices MixPre (or if you can find a used MP2) would be your other best bet for a small device.

There are not a lot of options for a small affordable box, but if you do your research right, I am sure you will find something that will work!  

Phil

[Lee]

I was going to say V2 also... they're going for what, $650 now?  I wouldn't go MP-2, it's waaay fat with the Oktavas, much more so than your USBPre tapes that I've heard.

Like the man said, you'll be fine with the A/D in the M1 for the time being.  I actually prefer the M1 A/D to some of the lower end boxes (AD-20, ADC-20, stock UA-5), but that's just me.

[Simp-Dawg]

I was going to say V2 also... they're going for what, $650 now?  I wouldn't go MP-2, it's waaay fat with the Oktavas, much more so than your USBPre tapes that I've heard.

Like the man said, you'll be fine with the A/D in the M1 for the time being.  I actually prefer the M1 A/D to some of the lower end boxes (AD-20, ADC-20, stock UA-5), but that's just me.

word...i'll have to sell some gear or my body down on colfax ave if i want to get a v2 but that could be pretty sweet....so lee you've listened to some of my tapes??  which ones and what were your impressions?

[Lee]

I was going to say V2 also... they're going for what, $650 now?  I wouldn't go MP-2, it's waaay fat with the Oktavas, much more so than your USBPre tapes that I've heard.

Like the man said, you'll be fine with the A/D in the M1 for the time being.  I actually prefer the M1 A/D to some of the lower end boxes (AD-20, ADC-20, stock UA-5), but that's just me.

word...i'll have to sell some gear or my body down on colfax ave if i want to get a v2 but that could be pretty sweet....so lee you've listened to some of my tapes??  which ones and what were your impressions?

I recall a NMAS show from out in CO this year that looked like your rig.  My thoughts: plenty clear in the highs, good soundstaging.  Not "muddy" in the low end as the Oktavas are often accused of being, but plenty of low end boom that I'd expect with MC012>MP-2, which I assume the pres are similar in the USBPre.

The low end was a little much for my system- it made the trim rattle on the maggies, and usually only FOB panic tapes do that.

[Simp-Dawg]

hmm....could be 5-31 from mishawaka, forgot the ol' windscreens for that one and there was definitely some wind rumbling on like the 3rd and 4th track but nowhere else.  i think i ran hypers PAS on that one but i don't remember exactly....might have to dig it up when i get home.  that's the only nmas show i recall right now.

[Lee]

yeah, that was definately it.  5/31 with no windscreens

[hoobash]

I ran oktava>mp2 for a long time. The bass is a issue and I wouldnt recommend it. I add oktava>mp2>adc-20 and the adc-20 helped. I would go with the v2 or ua-5

[silentmark]

bump...any other ideas?

Sonosax  

I have a show (Todd Sheaffer & Carey Harmon) where my bud Eric and I ran my MC012 hypers 90*XY> Sonosax for the first set and then his V2 for the second & third sets > modSBM1 >d8, if you are interested...

[Simp-Dawg]

yeah mark that would be great!  i'll pm ya

[Brian]

josh,
you know you want the UA5. get a p-mod tho, there aren't much of those and i bet octavas>p-mod would sound better than w-mod in a some situations, like last saturday at Cicero's....

V2, sonosax, psp-2, dmic-20 would all be great choices and like others have said the a/d in the m1 is pretty good.

Brian

[joeshambro]

Brian, what happened to the board patch at Cicero's?  That in-house matrix was always nice to have....

One of my good friends now runs the sound there a few times a week (Colin)...  I haven't been in a while!

[Brian]

RCA out on matrix board went poo poo. the xlr outs from the board are clean but straight board mixes from cicero's sound funky. I need to get a XLR(f)>RCA(m) cable so i can continue running matrixes there. until them i'm going straight aud with necessary post EQ in SF 6.0

Brian

PS: Bela Fleck Sat.??

[joeshambro]

Auds in Cicero's?  That must be rough.. Very rough.  That room usually sucks.  If I remember right I ran aud there for Hookah like, 3 years ago, and the sound was just awful.


I'm thinking of Bela...  however the woman has a few days off and we've been thinking about driving down to see some friends in New Orleans, so we might do that, leaving on Sat. night...  but if not, Bela it is!

+T for Team STL (and for the Cicero's matrix being out )

[Chapper]

word...i'll have to sell some gear or my body down on colfax ave if i want to get a v2 but that could be pretty sweet....so lee you've listened to some of my tapes??  which ones and what were your impressions?

At 2 bucks a shot...that's alot of handjobs....

[Chapper]

You can  use mine and josh's MP2 sometime, although we currently seem to be missing the power cable...I've mostly been using it stealth though, so I just run batteries in it.  
We've got the ADC20 you can run with it as well.  
We did Umphreys at the fox last year...ran one deck out of the ADC20 and one out of the V2.  We both preferred the ADC20 tape, a bit more full/rounded, but not much....I use the ADC when I can run the full rig, but don't feel like I'm sacrificing too much by not using it.  

[Lee]

You can  use mine and josh's MP2 sometime, although we currently seem to be missing the power cable...I've mostly been using it stealth though, so I just run batteries in it.  
We've got the ADC20 you can run with it as well.  
We did Umphreys at the fox last year...ran one deck out of the ADC20 and one out of the V2.  We both preferred the ADC20 tape, a bit more full/rounded, but not much....I use the ADC when I can run the full rig, but don't feel like I'm sacrificing too much by not using it.  

Doesn't it take the same connector as the v3 power connection?  If it's the same part, I can build you another power cable, I have the materials lying around...

PM me if you're interested.

[Kindguy]

Lee are you making Bush a new V3 power cable? If you have it ready by the X-mas Jam maybe I can swing through & pick it up.

[Lee]

he said he mailed it to you

[Brian Skalinder]

Doesn't it take the same connector as the v3 power connection?

Nope.  The V3 use Switchcraft S760K, the ADC-20 and MP-2 use 760K.  The specs are different.

[Lee]

Doesn't it take the same connector as the v3 power connection?

Nope.  The V3 use Switchcraft S760K, the ADC-20 and MP-2 use 760K.  The specs are different.

So let it be written... +T

[Brian Skalinder]

Doesn't it take the same connector as the v3 power connection?

Nope.  The V3 use Switchcraft S760K, the ADC-20 and MP-2 use 760K.  The specs are different.

So let it be written... +T

Already is.  In the Archival Info section!  

[F.O.Bean]

Doesn't it take the same connector as the v3 power connection?

Nope.  The V3 use Switchcraft S760K, the ADC-20 and MP-2 use 760K.  The specs are different.

So let it be written... +T

Already is.  In the Archival Info section!  

hell yeah brian, on the fuggin ball as always....keep up the great work bro

[Cooker]

simp, you might want to check out the MV-100 . i have had pretty decent results running MC012 > MV-100 > M1 - my main complaint is that the 20dB gain is a little hot for the M! when you are up close, or at a loud show in a small bar (Drive-By Truckers for instance) - but i like it better than MC012 > PS-2 > Line Xformers > M1, and  digimod MC012 > UA-5 > M1. the guy i bought it from (oh here, can't remember who) said he liked it better with the oktavas than the MP-2 also. Can be had for $200-$250 used, runs off 9Vs, and is built like a tank.

[Todd R]

Yep. the MV100 might be worth checking into for a low cost solution.  There's info available in the Oade archives on a drop in replacement chip to replace the SSM2017 that's in the stock unit--really a very easy mod.  Will probably help make the MV100 sound much better.  As is, I think it is a little thin in the low end, which'll probably help with the mc012s.

I've been tempted to get a used one to dink around with and change out the preamp chips, but there used price hasn't seemed to fall too much even as the V2, MP2, and just about every other pre has.  I always see them for $250 used which seems a bit steep.  I sold mine years ago for $275 back when used V2s were fetching $950.  If you can pick one up for $175 or maybe 200, I'd say go for it.

Otherwise, maybe an AD20 or Dmic-20 (which also uses the SSM2017 and can be upgraded), or for some more loot, a V2.  Tapped into someone's octava>V2 at a festival in VA a few years back and it sounded pretty good.  I'd stay away from transformers with the octavas, at least line transformer adapters and the mp2, don't know about the psp2.

-Todd

[Chuck]

Yep. the MV100 might be worth checking into for a low cost solution.  There's info available in the Oade archives on a drop in replacement chip to replace the SSM2017 that's in the stock unit--really a very easy mod.  Will probably help make the MV100 sound much better.  As is, I think it is a little thin in the low end, which'll probably help with the mc012s.

I've been tempted to get a used one to dink around with and change out the preamp chips, but there used price hasn't seemed to fall too much even as the V2, MP2, and just about every other pre has.  I always see them for $250 used which seems a bit steep.  I sold mine years ago for $275 back when used V2s were fetching $950.  If you can pick one up for $175 or maybe 200, I'd say go for it.

Otherwise, maybe an AD20 or Dmic-20 (which also uses the SSM2017 and can be upgraded), or for some more loot, a V2.  Tapped into someone's octava>V2 at a festival in VA a few years back and it sounded pretty good.  I'd stay away from transformers with the octavas, at least line transformer adapters and the mp2, don't know about the psp2.

-Todd

The INA217 is a direct pin for pin replacement for the SSM2017.
I'd like to hear how that sounds if anyone does it.

[Chuck]

I did a little research... the AD711 would also work in most circuits as a SSM2017 replacement as well. The AD711 is a nice musical op-amp. It's a single version of the AD712 that works as a nice microphone pre-amp op-amp.

[BobW]

Just heard Sam Bush from last week with the Oktavas and UA-5 (warm mod ). Big bottom end, right down to the floor and still decent clarity up top. Pro'lly could have used some bass roll off at record, but a great recording and easily tweakable to my ears/system.  You could do much worse.

[rmouk]

If the Sam Bush is from the Madison Theater that's my Oktava>UA-5 rig.  That's a straight digi mod from Oade, no p- or w- mod.  I'm probably going to send it back soon to be modded.  I'm leaning towards the p- mod.

The sound in the venue was really boomy, and it definately comes through on the recodring.  I need to play around with SoundForge or CoolEdit and learn how to roll off some bass correctly.  I try to avoid post-production if possible, but some of those Oktava recodrings really need it.

Bob

[jhirte]

I ran Oktava -> V3 -> DA-P1 for Enemy on Saturday. I'll make a clip tonight or tomorrow if anyone wants to hear it..
This was the first time I've heard the Oktava's so I can't really pass judgement on how they sound with other pre's but IMO the low end is a little loose...

Ran X/Y about 15 ft from RH side mains...

-Jim

[BobW]

Bob-

Like we say here  in NYC, "You Done Good !"
The show sounds great and I've been listening to it a lot.
I would definitely vote for P-Mod, especially with the Oktavas. You're right to avoid the temptation to equalize, especially when the recording sounds that good.  

Thanks !

-BobW

[stvgray]

Todd and anyone else who's talking about changing chips -- do you have any idea what the w-mod and/or p-mod involve?

[Nick in Edinboro]

Todd and anyone else who's talking about changing chips -- do you have any idea what the w-mod and/or p-mod involve?

I know this has been asked a few times 'round here but I think the concencous is that unless your quite the electronic engineer with a steady hand or have access to some sort of special tools (name elludes me now, want to say "air tools" which is wrong) it'd be really hard to do.

[Todd R]

Todd and anyone else who's talking about changing chips -- do you have any idea what the w-mod and/or p-mod involve?

I don't think anyone knows, since I don't think Doug Oade has made this info public, and I think he sands off the part numbers on his mods, does on the SBM1 mod anyway since I just had a chance to crack Tim's open.

Doug has said in a general discussion of op amps that if you like the Apogee sound, the National Semiconductor LM6172 is a good one to use and if you like the Grace sound you might try the Analog Devices AD712.

-Todd

[stvgray]

rmouk, where can I find your Sam Bush recording? I have just assembled the same rig, and I would love to hear your results.

[stvgray]

rmouk, where can I find your Sam Bush recording? I have just assembled the same rig, and I would love to hear your results.

[BobW]

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?board=24;action=display;threadid=10588

[rmouk]

Stvgray,

If you weren't able to grab a copy of bt.etree, shoot me a PM and I'll reseed or get you a copy by some other means.  

Bob

[BobW]

Todd and anyone else who's talking about changing chips -- do you have any idea what the w-mod and/or p-mod involve?

I don't think anyone knows, since I don't think Doug Oade has made this info public, and I think he sands off the part numbers on his mods, does on the SBM1 mod anyway since I just had a chance to crack Tim's open.

Doug has said in a general discussion of op amps that if you like the Apogee sound, the National Semiconductor LM6172 is a good one to use and if you like the Grace sound you might try the Analog Devices AD712.

-Todd

Is anyone fiddling with the B-B OPA 2132U chips ?(Buy American    )
Was up on DATHeads a while ago.

I've got a list of likely subs for Op-Amps on the UA-5, and am working up a proto board. If anyone wants to compare notes, e-mail me.
I'm no Doug Oade, but he won't touch my UA-5 that was an ebay purchase that I did digimodified..........