Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Acoustic Recording Techniques  (Read 85188 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16339
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: Acoustic Recording Techniques
« Reply #90 on: February 13, 2025, 10:49:21 AM »
^ Must be a mistype.  For the two to equate the metric measurement would be in cm not mm.

2.1 / d where d is the capsule spacing in inches
5.4 / d where d is the capsule spacing in mm cm

Now thinking about what that's based upon..

Here are a few data points:
22 cm spacing equates to a frequency of 245Hz using the formula above.
245hz equates to a wavelength of 140cm.
140cm / 22cm = 6.36.. cm

I'm assuming it's based on the phase coherence/correlation associated with that spacing, which for any spaced pair is high at low frequencies and low at high frequencies, connected by a curve that shifts downward in frequency as the spacing is increased.  Below is the coherency curve for a pair of omnis AB spaced 22cm apart as indicated by the Schoeps Image Assistant.  Looks to me that 245Hz is the approximate center point of the curve. 

[Edit to update the screenshot of the coherency curve to include the scale on the right side of the graph, consistent with the screenshots in the following post]
« Last Edit: February 13, 2025, 01:53:29 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Online Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16339
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: Acoustic Recording Techniques
« Reply #91 on: February 13, 2025, 01:47:04 PM »
From my perceptual point of view..

In spacing the omni mic pair in my multichannel setups - where the omnis can be spaced relatively widely without incurring a "hole in the middle problem" because there are additional directional microphone channels placed in the centered between the omnis - I find I most prefer the omnis spaced around 2 meters apart, and that's what I usually do.. because that's about the maximum by setup can support from a single stand. More spacing can work nicely but doesn't seem to be necessary and is more difficult to arrange because it requires additional stands or clamp positions along a horizontal railing to support them.

Looking at the coherency curve for a pair of omnis spaced 2m apart in Image Assistant, the approximate center point of the curve lies around 40Hz.  Ok, that makes sense to me perceptually.  With a 2m spacing no shuffling is needed to achieve a nice very low DFC (diffuse field correlation) all the way down to a sufficiently low frequency.

Now, the spacing I generally recommend in my posts here at TS for a pair of omnis used in typical taper situations is about 1m.  The qualities I listen for from a spaced omni pair suffer rapidly as the spacing is made narrower than that, at least without the application of shuffling.  More up to 2m is better but more difficult to setup for most tapers.  So 1m ends up being the practical recommendation.

Looking at the coherency curve for a pair of omnis spaced 1m apart in Image Assistant, the approximate center point of the curve lies around 80Hz.  Which also makes sense to me perceptually.  Low enough to  to achieve a sufficiently low DFC even though in perceptual terms it could be improved on with a bit more spacing.

However, it seems to me that most tapers have a hard time achieving a 1m spacing unless using miniature omnis.  Most are using narrower spacingings, so let's assume half that.  A 50cm omni spacing will place the center of the curve at about 160Hz, so most of the low bass information will have relatively high DFC. 

The tentative conclusion is that shuffling may perceptually improve any recording made with an omni spacing of around 1m or smaller, and the corner frequency of the shuffling filter can be set lower the wider the spacing.  The corner frequency may be determined by using the formula above or might just be set it by ear.

Here are screen shots of the coherency curves for 2m, 1m and 50cm:
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (40)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
Re: Acoustic Recording Techniques
« Reply #92 on: February 13, 2025, 07:39:13 PM »
Thanks for catching my typo, and for reminding me about Schoeps IMA which is such a handy tool. Your conclusions about the DFC seem very logical.
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
Team Line Audio
Team DPA

Online Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16339
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: Acoustic Recording Techniques
« Reply #93 on: February 14, 2025, 10:31:19 AM »
Thanks for starting the conversation on shuffling with your examples.  Super interesting stuff.  Hope I haven't gone too deep into this for the others following.

A few of my conclusions-
  • I'm now convinced that a not overly wide spacing in combination with shuffling is an optimal arrangement for a stereo pair of omnis when used on their own.. in most cases - there are always exceptions and I think those tend to arise in taper situations more so than typical recording scenarios. The oddity of superwide 20-30 foot omnis splits sometimes working great for PA amplified stuff without suffering a "hole in the middle" is an example of that.
  • This is great news for tapers!  Less wide spacings are far, far, far more practical, achievable, and less-imposing.
  • Application of shuffling may make for an improvement of any taper recordings made with a coincident or near-spaced pair.  That's most of them.
  • Thinking about how it might apply or not to multi-microphone arrays, meaning those which include a microphone, pair, or more mics placed in the center between a wider spaced pair. Forgive one additional indulgence in thought experiment about that before I let this go..  actually, strike that.  Probably best if I take that over to the OMT thread.

« Last Edit: February 14, 2025, 12:46:39 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline voltronic

  • Trade Count: (40)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 4232
Re: Acoustic Recording Techniques
« Reply #94 on: February 14, 2025, 06:29:56 PM »
Gut, you should check out this thread on GS. Heva gets amazing results recording pipe organs using just a Sennheiser Amebo headset and iPhone. Some discussion of shuffling / widening begins in post #5.

https://gearspace.com/board/remote-possibilities-in-recording-amp-production/1364259-binaural-pipeorgan.html
I am hitting my head against the walls, but the walls are giving way.
- Gustav Mahler

Acoustic Recording Techniques
Team Classical
Team Line Audio
Team DPA

Online Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16339
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: Acoustic Recording Techniques
« Reply #95 on: February 17, 2025, 10:29:57 AM »
Thanks, will do.
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.037 seconds with 29 queries.
© 2002-2025 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF