Topic: New Sennheiser MKH 8030 Figure 8 mic

[commongrounder]

I am seriously considering buying this microphone to experiment with mid side recording, pairing with one of my MKH8040s.

It then occurred to me that it would be possible to plug the 8030 and 8040 directly into a Tascam FR-AV2 to create the greatest ever portable recorder. Is this a crazy idea?

I realise that both mics are susceptible to wind noise, so any portability might be pointless.

I’ve seen this done with the Zoom F3, and I believe the Tascam has the same XLR jack orientation, so it should work. Put the whole rig inside a blimp and use Bluetooth remote?

[adrianb]

I’ve seen this done with the Zoom F3, and I believe the Tascam has the same XLR jack orientation, so it should work. Put the whole rig inside a blimp and use Bluetooth remote?

I believe the Tascam has more MS options than the Zoom F3, but have found the image below showing what I am thinking about.

I’m trying to avoid a blimp to keep it totally portable. If I was to use a blimp it would be with a proper mount and my Sound Devices Mixpre 3.

I wonder if a deadcat windshield would suffice, or maybe something fabricated from a baby ball gag or similar.

[Gutbucket]

^ That!

Like the idea but it won't fit inside a BBG.  Would need a larger blimp to encase the entire thing.  Might use the Schoeps WMS foam windscreen indoors and in outdoor situations that aren't too windy.. and could add a fur cover over that when needed.

https://schoeps.de/en/products/accessories/wind-popscreens/foam-type-windscreens/wms.html

[adrianb]

That WMS foam windscreen with a fur cover might work.

If the 8030 turns out to be too sensitive to wind to do that, or the 8040 for that matter, the thought process behind using a BBG is to modify it (make the hole bigger) so it just covers the ends of the mics and a least provides an air gap. Alternatively I have some spare blimp end caps that I could hack to make something. The idea is to be as discreet as possible.

I might just have to buy the 8030 and give it a try.   

[Gutbucket]

Totally get that.  In my experience the trickiest part of modifying existing windscreens is arranging for an effective seal that's tight enough, It doesn't take much of a gap for wind to leak in and render what is otherwise a more effective windscreen less effective than one which is not as technically as good yet fits better. 

Other than it looking like it was specifically designed for your application, I suspect the snug fitting elastic foam holes of two-hole foam WMS screen will achieve effective sealing more easily, as long as their diameters and center-to-center spacing are a good match.

[Craig T]

That WMS foam windscreen with a fur cover might work.

I can tell you from experience that you must use a fur cover on the WMS outdoors.

[Gutbucket]

Rycote should make a BBG with a back hemisphere that features two rubber-gasketed holes instead of the single one.  Would be perfect.. as long as the center-to-center measurement is the same.

[grawk]

It might be tricky to get the microphones aligned in a useful way just plugging them in, but it's possible it will work.  I think you'd be risking physical damage for either the mics or the recorder to have them connected that way tho.

[aaronji]

^ I had that thought as well.

Honestly, I don't really see why this approach is preferable to using cables. Maybe for stage lip? I would generally prefer my mics to be "up there" and my recorder to be "right here". Maybe I am missing something, though.

[adrianb]

Honestly, I don't really see why this approach is preferable to using cables. Maybe for stage lip? I would generally prefer my mics to be "up there" and my recorder to be "right here". Maybe I am missing something, though.

My most used rig is not a rig at all, it’s my Sony PCM-D100. That’s because it’s easy, quick and perhaps most importantly discreet.

I enjoy recording ambiences and situations, and those situations frequently involve people.

I might prefer the sound of my Sound Devices on a tripod, and my 8040’s in an ORTF configuration in a Blimp, but it draws attention and can change the situation. I like setting the D100 down next to me unnoticed. The D100 is possibly the highest quality rig available that I can do this with, but I would love to be able to improve on that.

[aaronji]

^ Gotcha. Thanks for the reminder that, while I almost exclusively record live music (probably many others here, as well), other people have other demands. I am not sure this would be inconspicuous, though! Definitely not as much as a PCM-D100...

[Gutbucket]

Adrian, here's a fun little flight of fantasy for you-

The ultimate version of this:


Could be an F6 featuring XLR inputs on opposite sides, combined with two of those m/s mic pair sets directly attached to it and facing in opposite directions, forming a mirror imaged arrangement.  Substitute 8020 omnis as Mid channels in place of 8040 cardioid, and turn the orientation of setup 90 degrees, so that the mics extend out to the Left and Right.  In that orientation the Mid/Side pairs become front/back oriented rather than left/right.  That allows you to dial in any polar patterns you like for virtual near-spaced mics pairs facing both forward and backward (each M/S pair becomes Front/Back oriented rather than L/R).

Such an arrangement would emulate the Schoeps's KFM360 developed by Jerry Bruck, except without the sphere baffle:


..which was strongly influential to the first oddball recording setups I put together upon joining TS a couple decades back, specifically designed for what you are doing in addition to providing an all-in-one setup for recording musician workshops that I could place in the center of a circle of musicians.  The construction of which originally brought me to TS 25 years ago.  It was designed to be placed on a table or the floor which eliminated the need for the bottom half of the sphere, and was simplified to using two boundary mounted omnis without the fig-8s.  I never added fig-8s channels placed coincidently with the omnis, even though that was the ultimate original design concept:





I quickly moved on from using that particular rig, yet still use a variation of it in couple of my long employed rigs that are arranged in essentially a similar manner, except for employing four omnis evenly spaced around "the central baffle" rather than two.  In my own flight of fantasy each of those four boundary-mounted omnis gets a miniature fig-8 placed coincidently with it, creating an 8 channel arrangement of four M/S pairs facing in the cardinal directions.  But practical realization of that fantasy rig awaits the development of a yet to be actualized miniature fig-8.  That's the unicorn.

/fantasy

[adrianb]

Adrian, here's a fun little flight of fantasy for you-

Well my mind is well and truly blown. I love this site because of guys like you letting me how much I have to learn about this little hobby.

[Gutbucket]

Thanks. I think we are all in the same boat, in the sense that there is always more for each one of us to learn from each other.

My apologies to other contributors to this thread who'd prefer the focus be kept tightly on MKH8030 for my going a bit OT there, but upon recognizing the similarity and possibilities I was unable to "unsee" it and wanted to share what I consider a cool insight.  I love seeing creative setups such as yours here at TS, and I think it's always insightful to consider where they ultimately lead, even if that's never actualized.