Topic: Resistance to filming with a camcorder

[ace5gt]

I bought a camcorder and I'm trying to get into filming shows.  I've tried to approach this by first tying to get legitimate permission from bands (or management) on social media and contacting venues to see if I can get permission.  Needless to say, it's not going well.  I'm like 0 for 25 on this.  Essentially every artist ignores my request, and every venue defaults to "no" without any consideration if the band may be taper-friendly.   It seems all these years later, the taboo of video cameras is alive and well in the concert industry.

So I'm pretty much at the point now where throwing caution to wind, sneaking in the gear, and attempting to stealth the show is my only option.  Although I'm not sure how stealthy one can actually be with a camcorder.  It seem to a large degree, I'd be hoping for venue staff to be cool enough to just look the other way and not bother me about it.

Any ideas?

[breakonthru]

Get a zs100 and act like it’s nbd and that it’s just a personal camera like the 400 phones people are holding up

[mrfender]

Agree.  Most venues allow small cameras with a non-detachable lens. 

[guitard]

Get a zs100

For reference, here's a clip I recently shot with a ZS100.

https://youtu.be/ebMiZO8xiiw

[tjj5036]

What model are you trying to bring in? Unfortunately even with half the crowd filming the entire set with an iPhone you'll get shut down with a camcorder 99.9% of the time due to long standing stigma against them. I'd get a point and shoot like the Panasonic Lumix ZS100 or one of the Sony ones and use that instead. You'll get great video quality and you won't have to worry about sneaking it in. That being said, I have noticed among the youths that bringing in vintage (MiniDV/Hi8) camcorders is in style and venue security typically allows those in. If you want to go old school you probably wouldn't have an issue.

[guitard]

I have noticed among the youths that bringing in vintage (MiniDV/Hi8) camcorders is in style and venue security typically allows those in. If you want to go old school you probably wouldn't have an issue.

Young people bringing in vintage camcorders is in style?  And security doesn't care? Wait ... whaaaaaaaaaaaaat??

I'm shocked that the average security person has any clue whatsoever about which camcorders are vintage and which are new; and they allow those with old videocams in and don't allow those with new videocams to enter.  How does that even happen?  I mean ... you got two people standing there and security says, "OK - this videocam looks old enough.  You're good.  Go on it."  And to the next guy, "Nope.  This one is a few years newer.  Sorry - you gotta take it back to your car."

It just sounds like a major headache for security to have to decide whose videocams pass the "old enough" test and turn away those that don't.

Not to mention ... if you film on tape, now you have to capture (in real-time) and encode that video.  That's a ton of work compared to shooting a video with a phone - that you can literally share to social media seconds after shooting it.

It all sounds crazy to me ... but then ... so does the resurgence of official releases in 2024 coming out on cassette tape!

[beatkilla]

Sheesh if you can bring in some older cams mine as well go back to my Sony VX2100

The king of low light …. Even in standard definition smokes all these little 4k cams.

[ace5gt]

My camcorder is a Sony AX43/a.

What I may up doing is eventually buying a point + shoot as a backup.  Then, if I get turned away at the door with the camcorder, I'll go back to the car and swap it for the P+S.

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

Leave filming to the professionals.  No one and I mean no one wants to watch a stage shot for an hour.  Bands don't want that content.
They wants mixed sets or recaps.  Just my 2 cents

[guitard]

Leave filming to the professionals.

That doesn't apply to audio taping.  Why should it apply to videotaping?  I mean ... it's a hobby .

No one and I mean no one wants to watch a stage shot for an hour.

Well, sure.  But why do you assume this is about stage shots?

Bands don't want that content.  They want mixed sets or recaps.

I agree.  Having said that, how many people at the TS do stuff on behalf of the bands they record/film?  Perhaps I'm an outlier, but maybe 1% of what I record/shoot is done with the band in mind.  The other 99% is for me and my friends.

[tapeheadtoo]

Leave filming to the professionals.  No one and I mean no one wants to watch a stage shot for an hour. 

Fixed stage shot (and a pretty distant one at that) for 2+ hours:

https://youtu.be/Lc4og6PSMms

95K views

[grawk]

Leave filming to the professionals.  No one and I mean no one wants to watch a stage shot for an hour.  Bands don't want that content.
They wants mixed sets or recaps.  Just my 2 cents

leave all taping to the professionals, no one wants to hear your recording of the pa speakers.

Or, you know, do what you enjoy, and let critics say whatever they want

[robeti]

Leave filming to the professionals.  No one and I mean no one wants to watch a stage shot for an hour.  Bands don't want that content.
They wants mixed sets or recaps.  Just my 2 cents

I don't agree.
Taping for me started with video. I only started doing audio because back in the mini dv camcorder days camcorders had shitty sound. So an extra audio source was needed. Video was and always will be my first reason I taped.
I love stage shots. It's how I saw the show. Pro shot recordings are super boring. All the special effects and flying camera shots ad nothing to the experience of the actual show. Stage shots are the best. Just my 2 cents...

[robeti]

Leave filming to the professionals.  No one and I mean no one wants to watch a stage shot for an hour. 

Fixed stage shot (and a pretty distant one at that) for 2+ hours:

https://youtu.be/Lc4og6PSMms

95K views

Great tape! What videocamera did you use? Your Roger Waters tapes are among the best videos I ever saw...!

[robeti]

My camcorder is a Sony AX43/a.

What I may up doing is eventually buying a point + shoot as a backup.  Then, if I get turned away at the door with the camcorder, I'll go back to the car and swap it for the P+S.

The ZS100 does the job! I got stopped filming in Glasgow once using my camcorder. I've asked if I could use the point and shoot and they said: "for sure. Photocameras are allowed, camcorders are not allowed". Funny thing: my camcorder shoots in HD and the point and shoot was 4k. Crazy...

[robeti]

Just shot an entire show with my Samsung s23 ultra phone in 4k with 10 times optical zoom. Very acceptable quality and no security guy complained. After all it's just a phone...

[guitard]

Pro shot recordings are super boring. All the special effects and flying camera shots ad nothing to the experience of the actual show.

I haven't watched a modern festival video in at least ten years because I simply can't stand the constant split second camera angle changes and feeling like I'm riding a roller coaster trying to follow the camera around.  If the music and performance are good, you don't need any of that BS.  Make the performance the focal point of the video; NOT the camera work.

[robeti]

Pro shot recordings are super boring. All the special effects and flying camera shots ad nothing to the experience of the actual show.

I haven't watched a modern festival video in at least ten years because I simply can't stand the constant split second camera angle changes and feeling like I'm riding a roller coaster trying to follow the camera around.  If the music and performance are good, you don't need any of that BS.  Make the performance the focal point of the video; NOT the camera work.

Exactly!

[yltfan]

I bought a camcorder and I'm trying to get into filming shows.  I've tried to approach this by first tying to get legitimate permission from bands (or management) on social media and contacting venues to see if I can get permission.  Needless to say, it's not going well.  I'm like 0 for 25 on this.  Essentially every artist ignores my request, and every venue defaults to "no" without any consideration if the band may be taper-friendly.   It seems all these years later, the taboo of video cameras is alive and well in the concert industry.

So I'm pretty much at the point now where throwing caution to wind, sneaking in the gear, and attempting to stealth the show is my only option.  Although I'm not sure how stealthy one can actually be with a camcorder.  It seem to a large degree, I'd be hoping for venue staff to be cool enough to just look the other way and not bother me about it.

Any ideas?

How about sharing a copy of your standard request? If you are 0 for 25, maybe you are asking the wrong way?

[RyanJ]

I bought a camcorder and I'm trying to get into filming shows.  I've tried to approach this by first tying to get legitimate permission from bands (or management) on social media and contacting venues to see if I can get permission.  Needless to say, it's not going well.  I'm like 0 for 25 on this.  Essentially every artist ignores my request, and every venue defaults to "no" without any consideration if the band may be taper-friendly.   It seems all these years later, the taboo of video cameras is alive and well in the concert industry.

So I'm pretty much at the point now where throwing caution to wind, sneaking in the gear, and attempting to stealth the show is my only option.  Although I'm not sure how stealthy one can actually be with a camcorder.  It seem to a large degree, I'd be hoping for venue staff to be cool enough to just look the other way and not bother me about it.

Any ideas?

How about sharing a copy of your standard request? If you are 0 for 25, maybe you are asking the wrong way?

Yeah, I think your request and how it's worded will go a long way. I know for myself, I put a few samples of work up on my YouTube page and share it with them to what they can expect from me setting up cameras throughout the venue. I then tell them I would go about sending them copies of the raw footage 24-48 hours after the show, giving me time to upload the show to Google Drive. Of course, not all bands are receptive. A lot of Instagram messages will be left on read. But hey, I tried. The ZS100 is such a great camera that will allow you to bring it in to any venue. You really shouldn't have an issue.

Just like you, I have asked a lot of bands. Maybe try some local acts to get some footage. I know it helped me and I can send it to bands. I recently did HEALTH in Detroit and I am so happy with the footage. I've sent it over to a few other bands to record in the summer and both bands agreed that I could film their sets. Here is a sample (shameless plug): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjIuR02dxPE

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

lol special effects?  WTF are you talking about.  The rule is 4-5 second shots.  fades every 4-5 takes.

Leave filming to the professionals.  No one and I mean no one wants to watch a stage shot for an hour.  Bands don't want that content.
They wants mixed sets or recaps.  Just my 2 cents

I don't agree.
Taping for me started with video. I only started doing audio because back in the mini dv camcorder days camcorders had shitty sound. So an extra audio source was needed. Video was and always will be my first reason I taped.
I love stage shots. It's how I saw the show. Pro shot recordings are super boring. All the special effects and flying camera shots ad nothing to the experience of the actual show. Stage shots are the best. Just my 2 cents...

[Teen Wolf Blitzer]

What a moronic reply.  I do video.  Payed.  You have NO CLUE.  lol.  When you got nothing...spew stupidity.  Video is for video.  Not your feelings on the performance idiot.

Pro shot recordings are super boring. All the special effects and flying camera shots ad nothing to the experience of the actual show.

I haven't watched a modern festival video in at least ten years because I simply can't stand the constant split second camera angle changes and feeling like I'm riding a roller coaster trying to follow the camera around.  If the music and performance are good, you don't need any of that BS.  Make the performance the focal point of the video; NOT the camera work.

[goodcooker]

Teen Wolf Blitzer has been doing paid video for many years. That's why he has a stick up his ass about how all the amateurs should leave it to him.

Ignore him. Shoot your videos. If it makes you happy then keep doing it.

[robeti]

What a kind and well mannered individual he seems to be.

[robeti]

lol special effects?  WTF are you talking about.  The rule is 4-5 second shots.  fades every 4-5 takes.

Leave filming to the professionals.  No one and I mean no one wants to watch a stage shot for an hour.  Bands don't want that content.
They wants mixed sets or recaps.  Just my 2 cents

I don't agree.
Taping for me started with video. I only started doing audio because back in the mini dv camcorder days camcorders had shitty sound. So an extra audio source was needed. Video was and always will be my first reason I taped.
I love stage shots. It's how I saw the show. Pro shot recordings are super boring. All the special effects and flying camera shots ad nothing to the experience of the actual show. Stage shots are the best. Just my 2 cents...

Stealth video in large arenas are a complete different thing then what you are doing. I watched some of your YouTube videos. It's always the same indeed. 4-10 second shots and some fades after a few takes.  Nothing special and super boring. The music you tape is even more boring. Don't tell people who want to stealth video at large shows what to do or what not to do. You have no idea about that. And your taste in music is as boring as your videos.

[Dan33185]

[wppcproductions]

I thought camcorders of any type and age  were forbidden .

Maybe I can bring in my Fisher Price PXL2000  kids camcorder into a show.They will think its a kids toy which it is..


It will be a PITA to change the cassettes after every song and have a couple sets of batteries on hand since the camcorder eats through batteries fast.

These toy cameras are now a hit on youtube with pro video makers..



I have no problems with my point and shoot Nikon. Except the sound sucks..

[Dan33185]

I have no problems with my point and shoot Nikon. Except the sound sucks..

If you're recording audio with a dedicated recorder as well, you can always layer that audio over the video.

[clover182]

With my mics clipped on my hat I was at the Reading Festival yesterday and got fantastic video and audio. I was also filming scenery and had some people wave or make happy faces to the camera. And I recorded concerts right infront of security 

[AbbyTaper]

Teen Wolf Blitzer has been doing paid video for many years. That's why he has a stick up his ass about how all the amateurs should leave it to him.

Ignore him. Shoot your videos. If it makes you happy then keep doing it.

You would think he would know how to spell "paid" then

[fanofjam]

I agree with the other tapers here.  I stopped buying commercial video's ten years or more ago unless I'm able to actually experience the video first.  LOTS of commercial videos are total garbage.  Like you guys already said, they're a spastic nightmare with ridiculous editing or the audio is total crap.  I watched a commercial video not so long ago where they obviously had a SBD and an AUD matrixed together, but they never eliminated the delay between the two sources, so the entire video had that characteristic echo with the annoying slapback of every drum beat.  After awhile, I couldn't listen/watch anymore. 

[lowlight10]

Unfortunately the ZS100 has become hard to find. Is there a new option? I have SBD access with my favorite artist, so now that I have audio easily covered, I am looking to do video as well.

[yltfan]

I agree with the other tapers here.  I stopped buying commercial video's ten years or more ago unless I'm able to actually experience the video first.  LOTS of commercial videos are total garbage.  Like you guys already said, they're a spastic nightmare with ridiculous editing or the audio is total crap.  I watched a commercial video not so long ago where they obviously had a SBD and an AUD matrixed together, but they never eliminated the delay between the two sources, so the entire video had that characteristic echo with the annoying slapback of every drum beat.  After awhile, I couldn't listen/watch anymore.

Guided by Voices was selling audio recordings like that a few years ago. And they shut down board feeds for tapers. Tons of us were like "please let us do a proper job of this, your taper is bad".

[tjj5036]

Unfortunately the ZS100 has become hard to find. Is there a new option? I have SBD access with my favorite artist, so now that I have audio easily covered, I am looking to do video as well.

I had an interesting conversation with one of the guys that works at the local camera store and he said that many of these point-n-shoots are back ordered and likely won't have stock replenished. The market for them isn't really what it used to be in the age of smart phones with pretty good cameras built in. Folks either are content with their smart phones or jump to "low pro" setups where you have a small frame with a detachable lens, such as a Sony A6400 or even the ZV-E1. The market for that in-between segment isn't worth it for companies to target. I will rock my ZS100 till the day it dies but I did get a FX30 to shoot at shows where I can get permission.