Topic: Equipment for home recording

[jefflester]

So the XLR main outs are being used to feed the PA?- Yes, she has a portable speaker she connects this to.

If she is only using a single speaker, just use the other XLR out of the mixer. Most (though not all) powered speakers have a pass-thru output, that would be another option. HW solution, since trying to configure the monitor/headphone outputs via the app hasn't worked out so well.

[Gutbucket]

So the XLR main outs are being used to feed the PA?- Yes, she has a portable speaker she connects this to.

^ One portable speaker feed from one of the main XLR outs?  In that case I presume she's getting whatever mono mix of both vocal and guitar is appropriate out to the speaker by using just one one of the main out XLRs.  Is that correct?

In that case, the path of least resistance for making a mono recording that has exactly the same vox/guitar balance as what she is sending to the portable speaker will be to use the other main XLR out into the recorder.  Just make sure the pan pots of all channels are centered.  That should work as a fall-back option with no changes to the mixer setup, but will produce a mono recording. [Edit- this is the same as what jefflester is suggesting]

Ideally you'd instead setup the mixer to use the two monitor outs into two channels of your recorder, with the vocal isolated in one channel and the guitar in the other.  You can then record both channels separately and mix them later.  Will probably take some reviewing of the mixer's user manual to figure out how to use the monitor outs in this way, as it seems there are several options for routing signal to them.

Probably need to spend some time with the user manual anyway to figure out the discrepancy in levels that you are getting through the headphone output.  Does it sound correct if you plug in headphones rather than the recorder? ..vocals in one ear and guitar in the other with good levels?

[snip..] so use the adapter above, but only use one of the outs to my recorder? Would it be any different than just using the headphone out directly to my recorder with just one cable? I'm assuming that would just be mono then?

As described the adapter would only be serving as a stereo 1/8" to stereo 1/4" adapter.  Would be the same as using a single stereo cable with the appropriate termination on either end.  Wouldn't necessarily be mono unless that's what's being routed to the headphone bus. 

Here's something that is somewhat confusing which you may not be aware of-
Both the headphone out and the monitor outs use 1/4" TRS jacks, but they are wired differently. 

The headphone output is an unbalanced stereo output (three wires = tip/ring/sleeve = Left/Right/Ground). It can alternately be used as a two channel line-out to the recorder, which is what you are trying to do.  However in that case you'd need to set up the mixer to send a different mix to the headphone output than the main outs, since it sounds like she's sending a mono signal through the main outs to feed the portable speaker.   

The monitor outs are also 1/4" TRS outs, but each is a single channel mono balanced output (tip/ring/sleeve = signal+/signal-/ground).  You can insert either a TRS plug for a balanced output, or a TS plug for an unbalanced output, but either way each one is just a single channel.  You would need to use both of them to get two channels out to the recorder, with the vocal and guitar signals being routed separately to either. 

You don't want to patch a stereo TRS output into a balanced TRS input or vice-versa.  Review the manual for the mixer, and check your wiring with the notes above in mind.

[Dan33185]

So the XLR main outs are being used to feed the PA?- Yes, she has a portable speaker she connects this to.

If she is only using a single speaker, just use the other XLR out of the mixer. Most (though not all) powered speakers have a pass-thru output, that would be another option. HW solution, since trying to configure the monitor/headphone outputs via the app hasn't worked out so well.

That may work, I can't remember for certain if she uses both or not, if she doesn't that may be the simplest route.

So the XLR main outs are being used to feed the PA?- Yes, she has a portable speaker she connects this to.

^ One portable speaker feed from one of the main XLR outs?  In that case I presume she's getting whatever mono mix of both vocal and guitar is appropriate out to the speaker by using just one one of the main out XLRs.  Is that correct?

In that case, the path of least resistance for making a mono recording that has exactly the same vox/guitar balance as what she is sending to the portable speaker will be to use the other main XLR out into the recorder.  Just make sure the pan pots of all channels are centered.  That should work as a fall-back option with no changes to the mixer setup, but will produce a mono recording. [Edit- this is the same as what jefflester is suggesting]

Ideally you'd instead setup the mixer to use the two monitor outs into two channels of your recorder, with the vocal isolated in one channel and the guitar in the other.  You can then record both channels separately and mix them later.  Will probably take some reviewing of the mixer's user manual to figure out how to use the monitor outs in this way, as it seems there are several options for routing signal to them.

Probably need to spend some time with the user manual anyway to figure out the discrepancy in levels that you are getting through the headphone output.  Does it sound correct if you plug in headphones rather than the recorder? ..vocals in one ear and guitar in the other with good levels?

[snip..] so use the adapter above, but only use one of the outs to my recorder? Would it be any different than just using the headphone out directly to my recorder with just one cable? I'm assuming that would just be mono then?

As described the adapter would only be serving as a stereo 1/8" to stereo 1/4" adapter.  Would be the same as using a single stereo cable with the appropriate termination on either end.  Wouldn't necessarily be mono unless that's what's being routed to the headphone bus. 

Here's something that is somewhat confusing which you may not be aware of-
Both the headphone out and the monitor outs use 1/4" TRS jacks, but they are wired differently. 

The headphone output is an unbalanced stereo output (three wires = tip/ring/sleeve = Left/Right/Ground). It can alternately be used as a two channel line-out to the recorder, which is what you are trying to do.  However in that case you'd need to set up the mixer to send a different mix to the headphone output than the main outs, since it sounds like she's sending a mono signal through the main outs to feed the portable speaker.   

The monitor outs are also 1/4" TRS outs, but each is a single channel mono balanced output (tip/ring/sleeve = signal+/signal-/ground).  You can insert either a TRS plug for a balanced output, or a TS plug for an unbalanced output, but either way each one is just a single channel.  You would need to use both of them to get two channels out to the recorder, with the vocal and guitar signals being routed separately to either. 

You don't want to patch a stereo TRS output into a balanced TRS input or vice-versa.  Review the manual for the mixer, and check your wiring with the notes above in mind.

Lots to take in here...according to someone on the Behringer forum, there is a way to run what you want through the "Monitor" outs without affecting her setup through the speaker, but we couldn't figure it out the other night. Ideally I'd love to do what you suggested and use both spots, one for vocals and the other for guitar, then I can mix in post as I wish. In this case, is a balanced mix or unbalance mix preferable? Dumb question at this point in the game I'm sure, but I'm not clear on it and how I achieve one over the other.

[jefflester]

Ideally you'd instead setup the mixer to use the two monitor outs into two channels of your recorder, with the vocal isolated in one channel and the guitar in the other.  You can then record both channels separately and mix them later.  Will probably take some reviewing of the mixer's user manual to figure out how to use the monitor outs in this way, as it seems there are several options for routing signal to them.

Only manual I found was just a quickstart guide and didn't have too much info, ~4 pages and then repeated in 9 languages.* Challenge here is the functionality may be tied up in the app presumably on the performer's phone so a bit difficult for Dan to get too familiar with it or make too many adjustments. It certainly seems like it should be possible to set up one monitor send for the guitar and one for the vocals though. One advantage of using the main mix is that it will have the desired (live) effects like reverb. Monitor mixes can have effects as well, but hard to set that up real time to make sure it is as desired.

*https://cdn.mediavalet.com/aunsw/musictribe/3aRR_S2Cb0qu6eCbcKlC7A/JH4xFMwE7U6fLyB9KyTe4g/Original/QSG_BE_0603-AEW_FLOW-8_WW.pdf

[jefflester]

Lots to take in here...according to someone on the Behringer forum, there is a way to run what you want through the "Monitor" outs without affecting her setup through the speaker, but we couldn't figure it out the other night. Ideally I'd love to do what you suggested and use both spots, one for vocals and the other for guitar, then I can mix in post as I wish. In this case, is a balanced mix or unbalance mix preferable? Dumb question at this point in the game I'm sure, but I'm not clear on it and how I achieve one over the other.

Now "balanced" or "unbalanced" can mean two things in your question since it can refer to both the type of signal/connector/cable (TS vs TRS) or the relative level of the two channels (guitar, vocal). Since both the mixer and your recorders both have balanced TRS jacks there is no reason not to stick with that. Balance of the instruments - either you will have no control (taking a mono main output that she is creating for live sound) or you are recording the two channels (guitar/vocal) independently so it doesn't really matter since you will adjust in post. You'd just want to set the two channels so you get good level for each.

I just found this video talking about setting up the monitors, you can do it without the app.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq77oOSwvIc&

Based on this video it looks like you have to (re)adjust the sliders for the monitor mixes and the main mix, since there is only one slider per channel. So if she is setup and has her desired levels for guitar and vocals in the main mix, you'd need to note those levels and return the sliders to those positions after you set up the two monitor mixes so she can be a the same setup in case she needs to adjust during performance. Or setup your monitor outputs before she finalizes her live mix.

Based on that video:
Push Mon 1 button, adjust CH1 slider (vocals mic) to get good levels, return slider to bottom
Push Mon 2 button, adjust CH6 slider (direct guitar) to get good levels, return slider to bottom
Push Main button and she sets up (or returns to) desired levels on CH1/CH6

Not sure how the effects on the MON channels plays into it, if they default to any previous setting or not. So if there aren't any effects it'll be quite dry sounding, though you can add some effects in post.

[jefflester]

Not sure how the effects on the MON channels plays into it, if they default to any previous setting or not. So if there aren't any effects it'll be quite dry sounding, though you can add some effects in post.

This video talks about adding effects to the monitors, it uses the same effects/levels as the mains, but need to make some button selections on the app. @ 5:30
https://youtu.be/PC3LTR1vUEI?si=NKMXCu-coxA2kt_N&t=331