Become a Site Supporter and Never see Ads again!

Author Topic: Best mic config for front of stage?  (Read 1462 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline nicegrin

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Best mic config for front of stage?
« on: December 11, 2024, 08:06:02 AM »
What is the best mic config if you are dead center and front of stage (literally at the front barrier).
Mics cardiods or hypers.

Thanks
Toy Box:

MICS:

Omnis:  6xNevaton MCE400s, Countryman b3s (modded), MM HLSOs (4.7K mod), Aevox in ear MK2s, CA-11s
Cards:   Schoeps MK4s with Schoeps CMRS, Milab VM-44 Links, SP CMC-8,  AT853, Sennheiser MKE 104, MM HLSC-1s, ECM-717
Hypers: AKG CK93s (modded), SP CMC-8, AT853, Audix 1280s (Church actives).


INBETWEEN: Naiant Tinybox (CMR mod), Naiant Tinybox (p48 mod), Naiant PFA, CA-9100, CA Ugly, Denecke PS-2 mini, MM-MBM, MM-CBM, SP SPSB-8, custom nuetrik XLR to TRS cables, 5 pin to 5 pin extension cable. 

DECKS: A10, M10, R05, Tascam DR-05, R09-HR , MT2, Sharp MS-H702, MZ-R 70.

Offline aaronji

  • Site Supporter
  • Trade Count: (9)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *
  • Posts: 4082
Re: Best mic config for front of stage?
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2024, 09:58:06 AM »
How wide is the stage/SRA? Stand or hat? A respectful crowd or loud/chatty?

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16323
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: Best mic config for front of stage?
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2024, 10:00:13 AM »
Depends on the situation. "Front barrier" implies not a tiny club / small stage.  What are some specifics of the venue, the stage and PA setup, the music? 

Often best to figure it out based on a few observations once there in person, or by having been there previously in the past.  Be warry of limited PA coverage in that position, especially if the music features vocals and/or instruments that are not stage-amplified but run only through the PA.  Clarity of mid and high frequencies can suffer.  However, that may not be a problem if there are fill speakers across the front of stage pointing out at the audience, or to either side of the stage facing toward the center position.  When that's the case and they are well mixed, it may be the sweetest spot for recording in the entire room.  Walk up front to see what it sounds like, look at the PA setup, look at the on-stage arrangement, consider the nature of the act, the audience, the room. How widely arrayed are the musician's positions as seen from the recording position?  Do they all produce sound from their on-stage position? Band onstage with no PA will be different from a small club with a small PA, which will be different from a large stage and PA. In large PA venues sometimes the PA reinforcement up front is from more or less directly overhead.  Angle the mics as needed.

Improved PAS is always a good answer for most any taping situation, party because its easy to envision the resulting stereo recording angle because it is always the same as the angle between the mics  Whatever the two mics are pointed at will be determine the outer edges of the resulting stereo image with everything in between nicely presented.  Pick the Improved PAS angle/spacing combination that points the mics at the outermost musician positions or side front fill PA speakers that are pointed toward the recording position and you can't go badly wrong.

Easy and most compact answer is X/Y, which tends to have a rather wide stereo recording angle which works up close on stage or at stagelip.  Even though that isn't always the best choice when used on its own from farther back.

More esoteric setups like spaced mics across the front can work well, but are harder to defend.  As long as it sounds good up there its probably best to go with Improved PAS, X/Y, or with whatever near-spaced config you typically use and like.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 10:01:52 AM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline nicegrin

  • Trade Count: (5)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 192
Re: Best mic config for front of stage?
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2024, 12:02:07 PM »
Some more info on recording situation...

Hat mount, medium sized venue ( about 400 ppl), rock/loud crowd, amps on stage but no front facing speakers on stage.

Toy Box:

MICS:

Omnis:  6xNevaton MCE400s, Countryman b3s (modded), MM HLSOs (4.7K mod), Aevox in ear MK2s, CA-11s
Cards:   Schoeps MK4s with Schoeps CMRS, Milab VM-44 Links, SP CMC-8,  AT853, Sennheiser MKE 104, MM HLSC-1s, ECM-717
Hypers: AKG CK93s (modded), SP CMC-8, AT853, Audix 1280s (Church actives).


INBETWEEN: Naiant Tinybox (CMR mod), Naiant Tinybox (p48 mod), Naiant PFA, CA-9100, CA Ugly, Denecke PS-2 mini, MM-MBM, MM-CBM, SP SPSB-8, custom nuetrik XLR to TRS cables, 5 pin to 5 pin extension cable. 

DECKS: A10, M10, R05, Tascam DR-05, R09-HR , MT2, Sharp MS-H702, MZ-R 70.

Offline Rairun

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 137
    • my recordings
Re: Best mic config for front of stage?
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2024, 12:13:16 PM »
Some more info on recording situation...

Hat mount, medium sized venue ( about 400 ppl), rock/loud crowd, amps on stage but no front facing speakers on stage.

Gutbucket covered it well. If there are no front facing speakers, and you need to be in front of the stage (is this first row, or in the photo pit?), your best bet might be to move to the side in front of the PA stack. You're likely going to get quiet (or outright inaudible) vocals otherwise, and no mic config can fix this.
archive.org/details/@rairun

Offline Kyle K

  • Trade Count: (4)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 217
Re: Best mic config for front of stage?
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2024, 01:13:48 PM »
I love omnis (Healy stage lip or baffled on head if you aren't too worried about person to your right or left screaming in your shoulders) + SBD if you can pull it, for anything that doesn't have an amp (vox or keys for my typical use case)

The energy up front is just the best. And I love direct sound from stage. Drums especially - I tape a lot of club acts where if you're recording from the back, you're missing a ton of the good stuff from the kit.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2024, 02:25:37 PM by Kyle K »

Offline Gutbucket

  • record > listen > revise technique
  • Trade Count: (16)
  • Needs to get out more...
  • *****
  • Posts: 16323
  • Gender: Male
  • We create auditory illusions, not reproductions
Re: Best mic config for front of stage?
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2024, 02:19:46 PM »
^ X2. May be just fine there if its an instrumental act without vox. Otherwise, what Rairun said.

Hat sort of limits the mic-config options to whatever you are able to arrange in your hat.   If there is need to attenuate a rowdy audience immediately behind then parallel-ish cards or hypers either side of your head in the hat facing more or less directly forward will attenuate the stuff behind the most when hat-mounted.  You don't mention omnis, but another option that will work very well for self-worn mics in the front row is omnis high on your chest, spaced about a foot apart tucked into the little valleys between the chest and shoulders.  That uses your torso as a baffle to significantly attenuate the audience behind, the little bit of forward chest protrusion to improve stereo imaging, and allows you turn your head freely so you can look around and enjoy the show more and just be more free and natural.  Need to be right up front with no-one in front of you to do that though, unless you are particularly tall.
« Last Edit: December 11, 2024, 02:21:57 PM by Gutbucket »
musical volition > vibrations > voltages > numeric values > voltages > vibrations> virtual teleportation time-machine experience
Better recording made easy - >>Improved PAS table<< | Made excellent- >>click here to download the Oddball Microphone Technique illustrated PDF booklet<< (note: This is a 1st draft, now several years old and in need of revision!  Stay tuned)

Offline Billy Mumphrey

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection All-Star
  • ****
  • Posts: 1461
Re: Best mic config for front of stage?
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2024, 04:06:19 PM »
Yes to reiterate what everyone else said, if there are vocals in this band(s) then there is a very good chance your recording will have a great stereo image of amps and drums with very distant vocals (not good or listenable IMO). I have made this mistake before, multiple times TBH.

If you care about the band and recording, and they have vocals, consider locating to the side, in front of one of the stacks (a little further back is usually better than right in front, YMMV).

If they don't have vocals, you're in a great spot because who cares what they say in between songs lol (I tend to despise crowd speak, RIP Jerry).

If it's a smaller stage and the barrier pushes you a bit back from the stage, you MIGHT be able to get a decent amount of the mix from the PA speakers (and thus vocals), especially if use a wide angled config like ORTF. Hypers could help, although you're subject to rear-lobe capture of people behind you. Tough call.

If you're not terribly worried about the band/recording, try what you think will work best and then make adjustments based on the results.
formerly known as "Chanher"

location, location, location

Offline Top Hat

  • Trade Count: (2)
  • Taperssection Regular
  • **
  • Posts: 65
Re: Best mic config for front of stage?
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2024, 11:38:37 PM »
What is the best mic config if you are dead center and front of stage (literally at the front barrier).
Mics cardiods or hypers.

Thanks

Only time I would ever roll stage is if it's all instrumental and no drums, or if I have a SBD feed, or rolling FOH which would make a set of stage mics kind of redundant d/t phasing issues.
My goto is SBD+split card or onmi depending on crowd and if therre are drums or not. A simple small stage set up I would roll either ortf for a full band or XY for solo or duo acts with no drums.

 

RSS | Mobile
Page created in 0.039 seconds with 32 queries.
© 2002-2025 Taperssection.com
Powered by SMF