Topic: Busted?

[Norm]

Right, I have taped about 7-8 shows and have never been caught, as yet.
What exactly can they do? If they stop you at the door can they refuse entry? Even if I return without any gear? What about during a gig, can they take your stuff? Legally?! Is that classed as theft?
I am in the UK,so I am not sure if the "rules" differ.

[Sean Gallemore]

there's usually a "check your gear in or leave policy" and in exceptional cases, busted gear and fingers

[Norm]

I would like to see them try 
I talk a good game at least!

[Humbug]

Norm, I'm in the UK too...on stealth recording no. 45 or something.

Sometimes I have permission to tape from the band, but rarely the venue. I've never been stopped. Maybe one day.

Worst was:

Security: Whats this?
Me: Personal Stereo
S: Doesnt record does it?
Me: Nope
S: On your way then

[Sean Gallemore]

"'Yesterday some hooligans knocked over a dustbin in Shaftesbury.' Ooooh, the hooligans are loose, the hooligans are loose! What if they become ruffians? I'd hate to be a dustbin in Shaftesbury tonight."

[greenone]

Unless stealth recording is a crime in the UK, I'm pretty sure they can't take your equipment. I know they can't in the US. But of course they can always "mishandle" you and your gear, and kick you out (since your ticket is essentially a contract between you and the venue, and recording is a violation of that contract). All typical "I am not a lawyer/barrister" disclaimers apply.

[silverbullet]

I thought in some states laws have been past were the venue can now confiscate your equipment. I seem to remember one state in particular... New York. Any NY tapers in here that can verify this?

I've been busted a few times. Billy Idol, APC, and almost busted a few times Kings X, Def Leppard, etc... Worst is to get caught while actually taping.

[MattD]

I would love one of the lawyers w/ experience/knowledge of this to post what your "rights" are if you get busted (not a Holiday Inn Express lawyer type!). The following is my understanding:

If you get caught, you are likely in breach of contract with whatever entity issued the ticket.
As such, the venue can revoke the ticket and tell you to leave. If you don't comply, I guess that's trespassing.
They cannot take your gear, tape, etc. though I'm sure they can request it.

Furthermore, so long as you leave, there's nothing criminal they can bring against you (is there?), UNLESS you go on to sell the recording.

If this ever gets definitively answered (and I realize it might be on a state-by-state basis for some), can this get posted in the archive?

[F.O.Bean]

yeah, this needs to get posted in the archives

[Humbug]

I don't know whether its illegal to tape in the UK, but I'd like to know. As printed on my tickets, it is against many venues rules to record.

As an aside I recently made contact again with a friend who was one of the first tapers I was aware of - he used to record an up and coming band in Oxford in the late '80s on a portable Aiwa tape deck.

He's now working for an copyright busting organisation, and doesnt even trade any more. Sigh.

[greenone]

Matt, that's pretty much what I've gleaned from several taper/lawyer postings on DAT-Heads. I posted links to those articles somewhere - lemme see if I can find the thread...

EDIT: Found it. And Matt, it was you and I having this discussion back then, too. Hehe...

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12900.msg159750#msg159750

[Norm]

I have always (rightly or wrongly) assumed its not illegal to tape in the UK.
I was more worried about meat heads giving me a good kicking and taking my stuff!
Maybe I should be more worried, get my whistle and flute ready to make a court appearance with shiners to match.
It might we worse than I thought.

If it is illegal maybe they can take your stuff, just as they can take your pc if you do illegal stuff on it?

Mind you they would have to catch me first.

[John Kelly]

Matt, only thing to add is I've heard in some states (I think NY is one) they have to refund your ticket if they kick you out.

[MattD]

Matt, that's pretty much what I've gleaned from several taper/lawyer postings on DAT-Heads. I posted links to those articles somewhere - lemme see if I can find the thread...

EDIT: Found it. And Matt, it was you and I having this discussion back then, too. Hehe...

http://www.taperssection.com/yabbse/index.php?topic=12900.msg159750#msg159750

How embarassing; I used the same joke then too.

[Jeff F]

I was taping Rush recently.  I got in fine, but was getting my gear ready in my seat and a lady usher asked me if what I had in my hand was a recording device.  I calmly looked up to her and told her it was a walkman.  She was cool with that and walked off.  So, in certain instances you can play into the not so bright ushers/security.

Another time I was getting into the venue, using my fanny pack as usual with the back compartment.  This time, the guard decides to feel the back of the back.  So, he finds I have a DAT deck there.  Tells me I can't bring it inside and have to take it back to my car.  He had no problem letting me back in, after a pat down (had the pack not been seen before, no issues).

I even got caught taping Widespread Panic, heh.  Until now, I only did stealth taping and figured I'd just sit 20' back from the stage.  I wasn't blocking anyone's view but the staff didn't like that I was taping in the non-taper section.  So they made me join the rest.  At least it was during the set break and not during their set.

I guess if you are cool with the staff, they are cool with you.  I've taped quite a few with only a few times being caught.  I figure it's to happen eventually and to just chalk it up and do your best to stay in the show without checking your gear in.

Tape on,
Jeff