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Offline DMBprez

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New Taper
« on: August 02, 2006, 07:51:30 PM »
Hi Folks,

I'm brand spanking new to this site, I read the rules and decided that this is the best place for me to put this.  I hope I was correct.  I'm 17 years old and deeply interested in taping shows.  I have been shopping around and have decided that the AKG c1000s are about right for me (price wise). 

I was just wondering if you folks could help me set up a rig.  What else will I need other than the mics?  Please state brandnames and prices if you can.  I am having some trouble here.

Also, please feel free to leave suggestions, I have not bought the mics yet.  So, I am completely open to any advice.  Thanks so much in advance guys and girls.

-Chris

Offline anodyne33

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #1 on: August 02, 2006, 08:32:40 PM »
First of all.. welcome! ;D

As far as setting up a rig, the possibilities are endless. I run one of the most typical "entry" level rigs which is (outside of mics) an Edirol UA5, which is a preamp (to boost the mic output levels to something that will talk to a recorder) and also an analog to digital converter. There are a lot of people who run seperate Pres and A/Ds, and some can get relatively really expensive. Some people elect or cannot afford to run any A/D converter and run "line in" (analog) to their recorders. I guess I should mention that almost all of the recorders you'll find in use are digital, either hard drive or compact flash card storage. Many people prefer to go with an outside A/D because it typically is of a higher quality than what comes with most recorders, but anybody in their right mind will tell you that there are TONS of fantastic sounding recordings out there that use internal A/Ds.

My recorder is a Nomad Jukebox 3 by Creative. These aren't in production anymore, but can be had around these parts (in the yard sale thread) or on ebay pretty easily. It can take an analog signal and do the conversion internally, or you can send it an optical digital signal to make use of an outboard A/D. The iRiver recorders are really gaining in popularity though. They are basically a MP3 player that somebody wrote some code for to tailor it's performance and function for our purposes. They can also be had here and on ebay in abundance. There's also the MicroTracker, which has a greater bit depth (don't worry about that yet), but some people have experienced functionality issues and one person actually had a battery explode and a resulting fire!  :o

Basically what I'm trying to say, is that you're going to need a preamp, possibly an A/D converter, and something to record to (hell, I didn't even mention DAT tape).

Set us up with your price range and you'll get 8,000 suggestions from everybody here. Keep in mind that you should take all opinions with a grain of salt, but there are quite a few people here who really know their shit too.

Finally, you can always download or stream shows from the etree section of the Live Music Archive ( www.archive.org ) to hear different gear. Just search for anything that you're interested in. Keep in mind that the things that will make a difference in your sound are your mics, preamp, cables (oh yeah... you need those too!), and your A/D.

Feel free to post any more questions and again, welcome! :headphones:

Shane
Pockets full of nickels and nothing left to eat, and I'm stuck behind a semi on Soniat Street.

Offline DMBprez

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #2 on: August 02, 2006, 09:36:12 PM »
Thank you very much for your help Shane.  :) 


Offline balou2

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #3 on: August 02, 2006, 11:06:32 PM »
Yeh...welcome Chris!

As Shane said, lay out a few more facts:

  • Type/genre of music you'd like to record
  • Financial limitations when building a rig
  • What you'd like to have in a rig (i.e. functionality, ability to transfer etc..)
You can learn EVERYTHING you need just by browsing past posts on this list.  Also, delve in to the Archived sections of the board.  There are many "How To's" and FAQs about things as basic as what you need to begin recording.  This will offer you an amazing view at what you need, as well as flesh out some of your desires for sound capture(sorry...swapping back in to porn mode).  ::)

Also, LISTEN LISTEN LISTEN!  You can get an entry level recording setup for just a few hundred dollars, but it may not produce the same sound as what you hear from other shows.  In other words, if you have not done so, you can have a lot of fun downloading recordings for the SOLE purpose of listening to how the equipment represented the sound.  If you listen to a band you're unfamiliar with, you may be less likely to be critical of the performance, and just listen to the sound and ambiance.  Study the notes in the FLAC/SHN files etc...they'll also tell you a lot about the extraneous facets of recording (where to set up, mic positioning etc.).

Bottom line, listen, learn, and don't be afraid to ask questions.  Post a David Hasselhoff photo every now and again, and you're golden.

Good Luck!
mike
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Offline DMBprez

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2006, 11:12:07 PM »
Thank you, Mike.  :)

Offline balou2

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2006, 11:17:03 PM »
Oh yeh...most importantly...turn around quietly, run, and never look back.
Socks are overrated.

Offline aberg

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2006, 11:21:12 PM »
Thank you, Mike.  :)

I'd say for a beginner rig, you can't really go wrong with this...

Buy some SP C4's new (I think you can get 'em on ebay for 280 bones), buy the Tmod UA-5 in the YS for $375 (a STEAL!) and an iRiver H120 on ebay for anywhere from $120-150 new... then you'll just need cables (try some canare starquads for now) and a stand/mounts/t-bar.... and an optical cable to connect the ua-5 to the iriver, and you'll of course need a battery for the ua-5... this probably sounds daunting, but that whole setup should run you no more than $900-950. Maybe this is outside your budget right now... if so, you can get a cheap stock ua-5 and digimod it yourself if you have the skills.... good luck and enjoy this great hobby!

Offline aberg

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2006, 11:21:37 PM »
Oh yeh...most importantly...turn around quietly, run, and never look back.

Pure gold, hahaha, +t!

Offline balou2

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #8 on: August 03, 2006, 12:19:06 AM »
Socks are overrated.

Offline tscales

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #9 on: August 03, 2006, 04:00:26 AM »
Welcome.

This is all fantastic advice I received a few months ago - the fine folks on this site are fanatasic - if you'd like to ask some other starter questions to a rela-tively-newbie, send me a personal message thru the TS boards.

We're happy to help.  I run a akg393s > ua-5 (w-mod+) > D8  (mics > preamp/AtoD > DAT)
Life's a garden.  Dig it.

AKG 393s > UA-5 (w-mod +) > D8 / Fujitsu T70G

Live Recordings..  http://www.archive.org/bookmarks/tscales


Offline Liquid Drum

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #10 on: August 03, 2006, 07:08:40 AM »
Welcome,

It all depends on how much cash you want to spend.

You can get some decent mics from Sound-pros (http://www.soundprofessionals.com/cgi-bin/gold/item/SP-CMC-19)

Check out both CMC-19's and CMC-20's, both $59

Maybe get a used DAT or an MD recorder and a battery box (but the latter isnt a must-have).
Mics:
AT933/C

Batt-Boxes, Pre-amps:
CA-9100

Recorders:
Edirol R-09
iRiver H120 (CF Modded)
Sony MZ-RH910 Hi-MD

Video: Canon HV20 E

Offline Patrick

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #11 on: August 03, 2006, 10:30:26 AM »
Great advice from all of you, and welcome DMBprez. 

If you're looking for a recorder, I am selling my Nomad JB3 in the yard sale.  Check out this link.

 :)
Monitor Engineer: Band of Horses, Cage the Elephant, Bruce Hornsby, The Head and the Heart, Josh Ritter

Live Music Archive Bookmarks

Offline guitard

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #12 on: August 03, 2006, 12:18:34 PM »
but that whole setup should run you no more than $900-950. Maybe this is outside your budget right now...
When I was 17 - that was about my annual budget!!

DMBprez - I can't reiterate enough the value of listening to lots of recordings made using the mics/equipment you're considering getting.  Soak up all the info about the recording (like the location from which it was recorded, stealth or permission, etc.).
Mics: Schoeps MK41s & MK41Vs >:D
Pre-amps: BabyNbox & Platinum Nbox
Deck: Sony A10

Video: Canon HF G70 (4K), Sony FDR AX100 (4K), Pany ZS100 (4K)
Photo: Canon EOS 7D w/ Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L is III USM

A/V software: Sony Vegas Pro 18 (build 527) 64 bit / DVD Architect Pro 6.0 (build 237)

Offline Oysterhead00

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #13 on: August 03, 2006, 01:39:59 PM »
....you knew it was coming....

As semi-official Superlux Pimp let me suggest the Superlux SMK-H8K mics set that you can get for $123 off eBay.  AAAudio is a very good seller and a lot of people here have purchased from them and had no problems.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Superlux-SMKH8K-Stereo-Matched-Condensers-KIT_W0QQitemZ260016184018QQihZ016QQcategoryZ41466QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

The mics are an INCREDIBLE value and I've heard a lot of great sounding recordings made with them.  They come with a T-Bar (I used it for about a year before upgrading, works great if you just aim the mics at the speakers....lacking if you are going to use various mic configurations) and Shockmounts so all you need are the cables, recorder and a  Phantom Power supply.  I have a spare Phantom Art II one sitting around that works fine...I just happened to get a deal on an AD-20 and PS-2 combo so I no longer need it.  It's only about $50 new and I'll give you a great deal on it and a dual XLR > Mini cable needed to run into the CJB3 if you are interested.

You'll need a stand and this is a great deal on one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/13-TALL-PRO-HEAVY-DUTY-AIR-CUSHIONED-LIGHT-STANDS-NEW_W0QQitemZ7623073453QQihZ017QQcategoryZ30080QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Then you'll need some cables which can be picked up a lot of places and you can go with $20 15' AT ones I have or go nutso with cables costing several hundered bucks.  That's a decision that depends greatly on your budget and how you listen to the recordings.  I do most of my listening in the car or on a discman so I'm fine with the cheaper cables but soon want to upgrade.  When listening on a good stereo I can maaaaaaaaybe pick out some noise that better cables will get rid of and I'm sure it would sound "crisper" but they were at the bottom of my upgrade priorities list.

Then what's left is a recorder and like has been said before, you can't go wrong with a CJB3.

Here's a recording I did a little while ago that I'm very proud of, but was before my most recent string of upgrades.  No digital fixing/eding, no Preamp or A/D converter, and in a little club right by the bar where there was a lot of talking.  An accurate and unedited example of what you can expect with this setup and if I'm able to do it, it's definately idiot proof :)

HMK-H8K Mics, T-Bar, Shockmounts $123
Stand $45
Cables (AT XLRs, XLR > Mini) $60
ART Phantom II $50
CJB3 (Used) $125
Total: $403

http://www.archive.org/details/skellogg2006-04-20.SMK-H8K

Good luck!

***modified the link to the show, I listed the wrong one***
« Last Edit: August 03, 2006, 01:45:17 PM by Oysterhead00 »
Big Rig:  SMK-H8K/U or MSH-1O > PS-2 > AD-20 > CJB3
Sm Rig:  SS DSM-6S (or SP-CMC-12 > SPBM-2)  > MD-MT77
ISO: Cheap iRiver 120 or 140 :)

Offline svenkid

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Re: New Taper
« Reply #14 on: August 03, 2006, 02:10:23 PM »
also church-audio is a good plaace to find good quality, and relativvely low priced gear. A friend of mine is starting out on some church-auddio gear. plus church-audio is a member here. also check out the gear loaner thread too.
Seriously, the band makes the music. Tapers just point mics in the right direction and hit "record".

That's good to hear!  The last patcher I had complained about my AKGs, fluffed schoeps for about 15 minutes, stayed patched in, and farted on me all night long.
rig: Neuman u89s > Lunatec V3 > MT(24)/JB3(16)
http://db.etree.org/svenkid

Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

 

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